Shadowman #9 Discussion

An area for Valiant SPOILER-RELATED discussions.
Any books which have been published and are available may be discussed here. Recent book discussions may contain spoilers for those who have not yet read them.

Moderators: greg, Daniel Jackson

User avatar
xoharbinger
Still afraid of Gamma
Still afraid of Gamma
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:04:54 pm
Valiant fan since: late july 2012
Favorite character: Charline Dupree/Flamingo
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: dont know yet
Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by xoharbinger »

Good issue excited to see where the new writer takes it but I wonder if the comic would have ended like.that if Justin was leaving....

User avatar
cavemold
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:57:25 pm
Re: shadowman #9

Post by cavemold »

Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX. :angel:

User avatar
xoharbinger
Still afraid of Gamma
Still afraid of Gamma
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:04:54 pm
Valiant fan since: late july 2012
Favorite character: Charline Dupree/Flamingo
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: dont know yet
Re: shadowman #9

Post by xoharbinger »

cavemold wrote:Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX. :angel:
I feel.like the darque thing though was ended really quickly :/ felt like a way for the new writer to not have to worry about him for a while.... Is that just me

User avatar
bygranddesign
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53:17 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Peter Stanchek
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: shadowman #9

Post by bygranddesign »

xoharbinger wrote:
cavemold wrote:Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX. :angel:
I feel.like the darque thing though was ended really quickly :/ felt like a way for the new writer to not have to worry about him for a while.... Is that just me
Considering Master Darque has been the center of the 2 opening arc's (all 9 regular issues) + the #0 issue + the next issue(#10) for a continuation of his origin ... I don't think it has ended quickly at all. As much as I like Master Darque ... I'm looking forward to getting to know Jack, the Shadowman/loa origin and some other threat that has nothing to do with Darque.
Ha! Yeah! Nice! Any of those dudes in your head mosh?! - Flamingo

User avatar
xoharbinger
Still afraid of Gamma
Still afraid of Gamma
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:04:54 pm
Valiant fan since: late july 2012
Favorite character: Charline Dupree/Flamingo
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: dont know yet
Re: shadowman #9

Post by xoharbinger »

bygranddesign wrote:
xoharbinger wrote:
cavemold wrote:Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX. :angel:
I feel.like the darque thing though was ended really quickly :/ felt like a way for the new writer to not have to worry about him for a while.... Is that just me
Considering Master Darque has been the center of the 2 opening arc's (all 9 regular issues) + the #0 issue + the next issue(#10) for a continuation of his origin ... I don't think it has ended quickly at all. As much as I like Master Darque ... I'm looking forward to getting to know Jack, the Shadowman/loa origin and some other threat that has nothing to do with Darque.
:thumb: Good point

User avatar
bygranddesign
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53:17 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Peter Stanchek
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: shadowman #9

Post by bygranddesign »

I thought this issue was solid overall... but was a continuation of the mixed results of JJ's run on Shadowman.

the good...
- enjoyable premise . and storyline came to a solid conclusion.
- some interesting insight into Darque
- baron samedi and the deadside continue to be very cool and interesting
- the demise of Dox was very well handled
- the art is really strong in the beginning and really strong at the end with RDLT's pages


the questionable stuff ....
- The dialogue was weak in spots
- Jack has had little training as Shadowman but figures out a way to defeat Darque who has been cultivating his powers, amassing power by wiping out Elysium masters for 100+ years ... it would have been cooler if Shadowman got his *SQUEE* kicked and then Baron Samedi faced off with Darque ... and while they were fighting that's when Shadowman gets up from his beating, takes out darque from behind and throw him onto the Tower to drain his powers...
- the loa/shadowman/jack relationship still confuses me. I guess Jack embraces his destiny as Shadowman and the Loa feeds him info but its not very well fleshed out, imo.
- The 'I have lots of friends and you are all alone idea didn't ring true to me ... Doesn't Master Darque have the Brethren - a whole sect that WORSIPS him?? and these twisted monsters he created ...don't they bend to his will? Who does Shadowman really have as friends?
- The art is weak in the middle


Overall ... i enjoyed it but didn't love the issue

solid 7.5/10 (B-) grade from me
Last edited by bygranddesign on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:23:04 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Ha! Yeah! Nice! Any of those dudes in your head mosh?! - Flamingo

User avatar
Donovan
...formerly The Beyonder
...formerly The Beyonder
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 3:55:43 pm
Valiant fan since: Unity. The first time.
Favorite character: Rai
Favorite title: VEI Quantum & Woody
Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
Favorite artist: Romulo Fajardo
Location: Canada
Re: shadowman #9

Post by Donovan »

I don't know. I find I really have to put effort into understanding what in the hell is going on in this book. And when I do, it doesn't seem like it was worth the effort.

I wish I could come up with some concrete examples of things I didn't like, but just thinking about everything but issue #0 makes my head hurt.

User avatar
sonicdan
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Posts: 5165
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:11:13 am
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
Location: Nebraska!
Contact:
Re: shadowman #9

Post by sonicdan »

This issue read kind of fast. It's good to see the overall arc come to a satisfactory conclusion.
I'm looking forward to the stand alone issues and seeing what the new writer may have in store.
Hopefully they won't have to use 5! or more different artists to complete it going forward.
I do like De La Torre's work. I also really like LaRosa's opening and ending pages:

Image

Image

He also did layouts too for the entire issue to help things along. I'll post those later on.
DAN
Sonicdan's Comics and Original Art: http://www.sonicdan.com
My eBay Store (Comics, Art, Collectibles) https://www.ebay.com/str/sonicdanscomicsart

User avatar
bygranddesign
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53:17 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Peter Stanchek
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: shadowman #9

Post by bygranddesign »

very nice pages :thumb:

yeah, hopefully the next arc has one artist throughout to go along with the new writer

hopefully a writer-artist pair that compliment each other

the constant change in artists within an issue definitely takes away from story
Ha! Yeah! Nice! Any of those dudes in your head mosh?! - Flamingo

User avatar
SJS4
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:37:47 pm
Location: New Jersey
Re: shadowman #9

Post by SJS4 »

RDLT is the ideal artist for this series imho, but Larossa is a close second. Really dig his art in general.

I thought the issue was okay, but overall i am just not in to this series (so far anyway). Curious to see what direction a new writer takes things. Also crossing my fingers that they can keep larossa and RDLT on board... :hope:
Kurt Busiek wrote: Bull$#!t

User avatar
BugsySig
I could be talking poo-doo.
I could be talking poo-doo.
Posts: 9435
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:47:04 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Ivar, Timewalker
Favorite title: Harbinger/Timewalker
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart/FVL
Favorite artist: Joe Quesada
Location: Central CT
Re: shadowman #9

Post by BugsySig »

Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fine, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though? :?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t
Image

User avatar
jmatt
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Posts: 10927
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: shadowman #9

Post by jmatt »

Great climax!

I loved the art throughout. Big changes in the book with Dox gone. At one point a few issues ago, Dox mentioned getting Jack "his training", I don't think we ever saw that though. If we had, it might have fleshed out Jack's ability to fight Darque.

"...knows every secret she told it (the loa)." Sandria? Is this a reference to Sandria and the loa having communicated in the past?

And I agree, it's time to put Darque on a shelf for awhile and see Jack do something else.

I feel for JJ. The book got off to a rocky start and I have my quibbles with the early plotting, but the last few issues have been terrific. A tip of the hat, Mr. Jordan.

User avatar
Bl00dsh0t
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:58:17 pm
Valiant fan since: Bloodshot #1 (2012)
Favorite character: Ninjak/Woody
Favorite title: Bloodshot/Ninjak
Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
Favorite artist: Clayton Crain
Location: The Faraway
Re: shadowman #9

Post by Bl00dsh0t »

bygranddesign wrote:I thought this issue was solid overall... but was a continuation of the mixed results of JJ's run on Shadowman.

the good...
- enjoyable premise . and storyline came to a solid conclusion.
- some interesting insight into Darque
- baron samedi and the deadside continue to be very cool and interesting
- the demise of Dox was very well handled
- the art is really strong in the beginning and really strong at the end with RDLT's pages


the questionable stuff ....
- The dialogue was weak in spots
- Jack has had little training as Shadowman but figures out a way to defeat Darque who has been cultivating his powers, amassing power by wiping out Elysium masters for 100+ years ... it would have been cooler if Shadowman got his *SQUEE* kicked and then Baron Samedi faced off with Darque ... and while they were fighting that's when Shadowman gets up from his beating, takes out darque from behind and throw him onto the Tower to drain his powers...
- the loa/shadowman/jack relationship still confuses me. I guess Jack embraces his destiny as Shadowman and the Loa feeds him info but its not very well fleshed out, imo.
- The 'I have lots of friends and you are all alone idea didn't ring true to me ... Doesn't Master Darque have the Brethren - a whole sect that WORSIPS him?? and these twisted monsters he created ...don't they bend to his will? Who does Shadowman really have as friends?
- The art is weak in the middle


Overall ... i enjoyed it but didn't love the issue

solid 7.5/10 (B-) grade from me
I think you hit the nail on the head. Agree completly.

I went back and read Shadowman #8 and followed it up directly with #9. Those two issues in isolation from the rest of the second arc (#5 through #7) read really well together. This issue had so many good things going for it - Dox death was perfect, Samedi is well established within this dark corner of the Valiant U, and we see a little more of Shadowman evolving.

My dislikes are pretty much what you said. Darque is all immensly powerful yet Shadowman is able to account for him with little more than a punch? True, Darque was suffering from Dox's attack - guess it was more powerful than I gave it credit upon initially reading it. Also, I dont like the whole 'you're alone' thing...as rightfully mentioned, Darque has the Brethren and an army...

I was initially thinking of dropping this title after the sequel to #0 (#10) and the standalone (#11), however this issue has renewed my interest. Cant wait to hear something about the new arc...

User avatar
Bl00dsh0t
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:58:17 pm
Valiant fan since: Bloodshot #1 (2012)
Favorite character: Ninjak/Woody
Favorite title: Bloodshot/Ninjak
Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
Favorite artist: Clayton Crain
Location: The Faraway
Re: shadowman #9

Post by Bl00dsh0t »

BugsySig wrote:Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fins, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though? :?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.
Yes exactly! Where is she (Dr. Mirage) in all of this? I hope #12 for the new arc brings her back. I was really looking forward to seeing where she was heading within the context of the story.

User avatar
BugsySig
I could be talking poo-doo.
I could be talking poo-doo.
Posts: 9435
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:47:04 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Ivar, Timewalker
Favorite title: Harbinger/Timewalker
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart/FVL
Favorite artist: Joe Quesada
Location: Central CT
Re: shadowman #9

Post by BugsySig »

Bl00dsh0t wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fins, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though? :?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.
Yes exactly! Where is she (Dr. Mirage) in all of this? I hope #12 for the new arc brings her back. I was really looking forward to seeing where she was heading within the context of the story.
Yeah. Even if she had been the one to help organize the dead souls instead of Jaunty (seeing as how she can talk to the dead) it would have at least wrapped up her involvement and made her introduction mean something.

I cant express enough, though, how much more I enjoyed the second half of the book as drawn by DLT than the half drawn by Edwards. DLT just creates such an amazing mood for the story that it elevates everything that is going on in those pages.
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t
Image

User avatar
Paradigm38
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:17:06 pm
Re: shadowman #9

Post by Paradigm38 »

I enjoyed these last two issues very much. However... the dialogue for our main hero is just terrible, the supporting cast has stole the show from the beginning. Maybe the stand alones will flesh out his "voice"? I think he needs a sit down with Nettie....

User avatar
bribri
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:11:16 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Re: shadowman #9

Post by bribri »

Bl00dsh0t wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fins, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though? :?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.
Yes exactly! Where is she (Dr. Mirage) in all of this? I hope #12 for the new arc brings her back. I was really looking forward to seeing where she was heading within the context of the story.
Seriously, the disappearance of Dr. Mirage throughout the rest of the arc makes her brief appearance somewhat pointless. Right? Why bother introducing her a few issues ago only to have her vanish? Feels like maybe a change in the story line at some point...

For me there are three major things missing from this series:
1. The blue mask - Perhaps the old mask is considered dated, and therefore VEI decided to go a different direction, but I miss it. Acclaim tried something very different with the mask too; I missed the blue mask back then, and I miss it now. Even though it never made sense how it would stay on during fights, I liked it. It was an iconic symbol of the original universe, especially after Jack cut the chin piece off.

2. The mystery - The original run had a lot of mystery about who Shadowman was and why he was. In this run his back story is pretty much dropped on us right away, and Jack embraces the whole thing rather quickly. I would have enjoyed more mystery about the who, what, when, why and how...

3. New Orleans - The city was such a major character in the original run. I love the use of Deadside from the Acclaim run. It was a good idea to include this in the new version. But there is not much artwork depicting New Orleans, nothing about the city's history and relationship with Voodooism, and nothing about Jack's relationship with the city. Like Batman's Gotham, the original run not only had a vibe of "the night is mine" but also "this city is mine". Nothing about this series so far makes me feel like the setting is New Orleans. (There was the one scene with Samedi in the graveyard, but not much else.)

User avatar
jmatt
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Posts: 10927
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: shadowman #9

Post by jmatt »

bribri wrote:3. New Orleans - The city was such a major character in the original run. ...But there is not much artwork depicting New Orleans, nothing about the city's history and relationship with Voodooism, and nothing about Jack's relationship with the city.
I think that's about to be righted. I would be surprised if we didn't see a lot more of the city, the bayou and voodoo in the next few issues.

User avatar
lorddunlow
I think you might be a closeted Canadian.
I think you might be a closeted Canadian.
Posts: 13301
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:51:31 pm
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by lorddunlow »

Finally read it. Now I'm really bummed about Justin Jordan leaving the book. It seems like he was just hitting his stride.

Very upset to see Dox kick it, but it was a cool end to him.

I definitely think Sandria is the mother of the first Shadowman now, and think she may have created the Shadowman loan as well.

Awesome issue. Robert De La Torre killed it, as always.
*SQUEE* your science, I have a machine gun.

User avatar
grendeljd
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
Posts: 7712
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
Valiant fan since: 1991
Favorite character: Aric
Favorite title: Harbinger
Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Haven't read this one yet, but wanted to say I'm also bummed JJ is leaving. I'm still missing Zircher on the book too, & I think it's unfortunate that the starting creative team hasn't worked out for whatever reasons.

Very strange twist of fate that this echoes what happened on the original VH1 book with the creative team shake-up, settling on Bob Hall around the same time...

I wish JJ the best on his other projects, and look forward to seeing him return to Valiant someday.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Zaphod
Zaphod's just this guy, you know?
Zaphod's just this guy, you know?
Posts: 2582
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:11:11 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: VH1 - Armstrong
Favorite title: VEI - Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: BC Canada
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by Zaphod »

bad, inconsistent art.
bad, inconsistent dialogue.
bad, incoherent plot with little to no explanation as to how Jack beats Darque, how any of these powers work. How Darque's tree broke on through to New Orleans.

Nothing about this issue satisfied me. Some of the art was fantastic, other points were just grossly rushed and the swap in artists with no rhyme nor reason was poor.

I am not a fan of a story that won't explain itself. This story didn't, imo. Just stripping people from the tree, is that all it took? doesn't add up, Jack's father couldn't beat Darque without the tree and he was a more experienced Shadowman.

how does Jack manage to cause the tree to reverse its "polarity"? Sadly, besides the zero issue this series has been all flash, no substance and very little coherence.

I'd be all in favor of rebooting Shadowman tomorrow. Looking forward to see what a new creative team can do with this character.
What we need is innovation and even revolution—but not so much in the form of marketing ploys and doohickeys. What is needed is bold creative vision, excellent stories, and brilliant storytelling, in a word, entertainment. -- Jim Shooter

User avatar
bygranddesign
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53:17 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Peter Stanchek
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by bygranddesign »

Zaphod wrote: How Darque's tree broke on through to New Orleans.
It didn't break through to New Orleans ... I had to re-read that part myself.

Those panels were just showing what WOULD happen if the dam broke and the barrier between both worlds were broken

But I don't believe that ever happened

It actually would have been cool if it did. At least unleash some of the monsters into the real world.

The *SQUEE* finally would have hit the fan in this book.
Ha! Yeah! Nice! Any of those dudes in your head mosh?! - Flamingo

User avatar
Zaphod
Zaphod's just this guy, you know?
Zaphod's just this guy, you know?
Posts: 2582
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:11:11 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: VH1 - Armstrong
Favorite title: VEI - Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: BC Canada
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by Zaphod »

good thing I covered incoherent plot...
:?
What we need is innovation and even revolution—but not so much in the form of marketing ploys and doohickeys. What is needed is bold creative vision, excellent stories, and brilliant storytelling, in a word, entertainment. -- Jim Shooter

User avatar
bygranddesign
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53:17 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Peter Stanchek
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by bygranddesign »

I'm disappointed that Shadowman #0 gives this sort of sympathetic portrait of Darque ... but you feel none of that sympathy toward him in this storyline happening in the present - there is no grey area to what he plans on doing - and no references to Sandria that might shed some light as to why he is so evil - or why he hates "God" so much. When he seemingly gets obliterated by the tower, for me, it didn't have as much impact as it should have.

I understand that Darque's origin will continue in the next issue ... which could possibly be another awesome issue. But wouldn't that issue have been great to see before he got obliterated? My expectations have been lowered for this next issue … which might end up working in its favor..
Ha! Yeah! Nice! Any of those dudes in your head mosh?! - Flamingo

User avatar
pixierosa
Nanite-powered posting
Nanite-powered posting
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:19:03 am
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Dysart
Location: Nebraska
Contact:
Re: Shadowman #9 Discussion

Post by pixierosa »

This did seem like a fast read, perhaps too fast of a cleanup. It felt at time inconsistent, largely due to the volume of artists, but some of whom did nice work (LaRosa). I think the book benefited moving to one writer, and I am looking forward to learning more about the shadowman origin in next issue. I hope that the new writer will give more weight to Jack. I still feel like I know more about the supporting cast than I do the personality of the main character.

Any ideas who the new writer will be? Despite the context of the story, I've never viewed this as "horror". More of a drama with supernatural overtones.
"Sorry, no. You are absolutely about to pepper spray the wrong guy."


Post Reply