Eternal Warrior Days of Steel #2 discussion

[KXXX]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

We had Shadowman before; now we don't. Just sayin'

[leonmallett]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

We had Shadowman before; now we don't. Just sayin'

So he will find a way to *SQUEE* up Eternal Warrior and send it on hiatus?

[KXXX]

I hope not...

[Sven the Returned]

Hiatus would not be the end of the world considering how the timeline jumps around.

[omega_override]

I've honestly been feeling like Days Of Steel has been a much more better interpretation of Gilad than the main eight issue series. Those eight issues felt like it was more of a half-hearted attempt at some kind of edgy "screw the world" comic from the 90's than the Eternal Warrior that we've come to know

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

Milligan's take on Shadowman just didn't work and lacked the heart and energy that Jordan and Zircher brought to it (it also felt all-together unnecessary and tacked on). I'm about almost done with End Times and it's just about the sorriest piece of dreck that I've ever had the displeasure of reading. It comes off like brooding tween fanfiction

[leonmallett]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

Milligan's take on Shadowman just didn't work and lacked the heart and energy that Jordan and Zircher brought to it (it also felt all-together unnecessary and tacked on). I'm about almost done with End Times and it's just about the sorriest piece of dreck that I've ever had the displeasure of reading. It comes off like brooding tween fanfiction

I know forum posters we are not so many compared the wider readership of VEI, and I also accept not all of us found it detestable and unworthy of the IP and publisher, but I do wonder if VEI see End Times as any kind of mis-step? If not, that would concern me a little, while also trying to accept it may have its fans and adherents.

[erwinrafael]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

Milligan's take on Shadowman just didn't work and lacked the heart and energy that Jordan and Zircher brought to it (it also felt all-together unnecessary and tacked on). I'm about almost done with End Times and it's just about the sorriest piece of dreck that I've ever had the displeasure of reading. It comes off like brooding tween fanfiction

I know forum posters we are not so many compared the wider readership of VEI, and I also accept not all of us found it detestable and unworthy of the IP and publisher, but I do wonder if VEI see End Times as any kind of mis-step? If not, that would concern me a little, while also trying to accept it may have its fans and adherents.

I think the difference in quality and the several contradiction between Milligan's only Shadowman arc and the End Times series should have been an obvious indication that End Times is not really a full Milligan story but is an editorial decision to end this incarnation of the character. I think the quality of his Bloodshot #25 story and EW: Days of Steel so far should open the minds of some readers that End Times is not what it seems and Milligan was just asked to execute a company decision. Heck, if we dig up the threads, I remember that a lot actually liked the Milligan Shadowman ongoing arc. Why it is very easy for some to assume that End Times is purely a Milligan misstep and to go on posting sprees to perpetuate that Milligan is some sort of bad writer is beyond me.

What I am basically saying is, give Milligan a break. The misstep here really is with VEI for greenlighting a Shadowman idea that is not good and that the market did not respond well to (they should have gone down the horror path from the get go). The same thing happened with the Eternal Warrior ongoing.

[leonmallett]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

Milligan's take on Shadowman just didn't work and lacked the heart and energy that Jordan and Zircher brought to it (it also felt all-together unnecessary and tacked on). I'm about almost done with End Times and it's just about the sorriest piece of dreck that I've ever had the displeasure of reading. It comes off like brooding tween fanfiction

I know forum posters we are not so many compared the wider readership of VEI, and I also accept not all of us found it detestable and unworthy of the IP and publisher, but I do wonder if VEI see End Times as any kind of mis-step? If not, that would concern me a little, while also trying to accept it may have its fans and adherents.

I think the difference in quality and the several contradiction between Milligan's only Shadowman arc and the End Times series should have been an obvious indication that End Times is not really a full Milligan story but is an editorial decision to end this incarnation of the character. I think the quality of his Bloodshot #25 story and EW: Days of Steel so far should open the minds of some readers that End Times is not what it seems and Milligan was just asked to execute a company decision. Heck, if we dig up the threads, I remember that a lot actually liked the Milligan Shadowman ongoing arc. Why it is very easy for some to assume that End Times is purely a Milligan misstep and to go on posting sprees to perpetuate that Milligan is some sort of bad writer is beyond me.

What I am basically saying is, give Milligan a break. The misstep here really is with VEI for greenlighting a Shadowman idea that is not good and that the market did not respond well to (they should have gone down the horror path from the get go). The same thing happened with the Eternal Warrior ongoing.

For me, my issues with Milligan's work at VEI don't just lie with End Times. I was unimpressed with his first Shadowman arc, and what I felt to be its ham-fisted back-story ret-con. I was unimpressed with Punk Mambo #0 and its 90's Vertigo-wannabe tone (knowing he is one of the godfathers of Vertigo), which portrayed an unsympathetic lead for this reader. I was also unimpressed with his Bloodshot #25 story.

I do find his Eternal Warrior Days of Steel story more to my tastes, and I have enjoyed some of his past work such as at 2000AD. However my criticisms of Milligan's VEI work are not based on End Times alone.

[leonmallett]

While posting in the rank the December books thread, I got to thinking a little more about this series. And the question that came to me is that I am not sure what the point of the series is, especially when Gilad renounced the Earth in the ongoing, and he faces the Immortal Enemy across time in The Valiant - in light of those things it feels redundant and mainlyu feels to me like it is just a vehicle for Cary Nord.

[dornwolf]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

We had Shadowman before; now we don't. Just sayin'

So he will find a way to *SQUEE* up Eternal Warrior and send it on hiatus?

Going off of information we have I thought Pak pulled that off already.

[leonmallett]

does Milligan get a free pass to do what the heck he wants.

We had Shadowman before; now we don't. Just sayin'

So he will find a way to *SQUEE* up Eternal Warrior and send it on hiatus?

Going off of information we have I thought Pak pulled that off already.

Ba-tish. His name if dornwolf and he is here all week!

[lorddunlow]

Finally got to this. Very good stuff. I still wish for more of the Pak stuff, but I'm sure that VEI has disavowed all knowledge of that incarnation.

[grendeljd]

Finally got to this. Very good stuff. I still wish for more of the Pak stuff, but I'm sure that VEI has disavowed all knowledge of that incarnation.

It's a bit of a shame. I was interested in the concept of all those various Houses enough to want to see more of it. The excecution was mildly lacking, but the idea was cool. Having houses in addition to the Geomancer as part of Gil-Ahd's background makes it a tad richer, IMO.

I'm not a fan of seeing all that stuff get swept under a carpet like that. That's not how you clean up a mess. I'd really like to see them get a story written that reconciles all that stuff. It *was* published - it should be treated as part of the mythos!

[leonmallett]

Finally got to this. Very good stuff. I still wish for more of the Pak stuff, but I'm sure that VEI has disavowed all knowledge of that incarnation.

It's a bit of a shame. I was interested in the concept of all those various Houses enough to want to see more of it. The excecution was mildly lacking, but the idea was cool. Having houses in addition to the Geomancer as part of Gil-Ahd's background makes it a tad richer, IMO.

I'm not a fan of seeing all that stuff get swept under a carpet like that. That's not how you clean up a mess. I'd really like to see them get a story written that reconciles all that stuff. It *was* published - it should be treated as part of the mythos!

I cannot disagree with those points; however what VEI does in this area is another thing. As Van Meter has (I think) proven with Dr. Mirage, it is possible to reconcile skewed elements of mythos (in that case VH1 and VEI) - for me it just takes a will to do so and the right writer. A very good writer (someone like Grant Morrison, when I am reflecting on his approach to the DC Multiverse for example; I know he isn't to everyone's tastes, but he is able to find ways of bringing together disparate very elements in a cohesive way) can do something like that in a few panels or pages.

My fear is that VEI take the path of least resistance around the for-now abandoned aspects of Gilad's mythos and simply do and say nothing. They may pull a rabbit out of the hat and address it head on, but I suspect not.

[lorddunlow]

Finally got to this. Very good stuff. I still wish for more of the Pak stuff, but I'm sure that VEI has disavowed all knowledge of that incarnation.

It's a bit of a shame. I was interested in the concept of all those various Houses enough to want to see more of it. The excecution was mildly lacking, but the idea was cool. Having houses in addition to the Geomancer as part of Gil-Ahd's background makes it a tad richer, IMO.

I'm not a fan of seeing all that stuff get swept under a carpet like that. That's not how you clean up a mess. I'd really like to see them get a story written that reconciles all that stuff. It *was* published - it should be treated as part of the mythos!

QFT

[jmatt]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

[lorddunlow]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

I noticed that as well...

[jmatt]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

I noticed that as well...

Hey, you're coming up on the big 10K post. And at your rate, that's just a matter of days. Planning anything special? Can I throw the party?

[lorddunlow]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

I noticed that as well...

Hey, you're coming up on the big 10K post. And at your rate, that's just a matter of days. Planning anything special? Can I throw the party?

T minus 59

Thinking about it. I'll probably miss it and post "Just Thor" as my 10000th post...

Maybe we can have a roast...

[grendeljd]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

[grendeljd]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

I noticed that as well...

Hey, you're coming up on the big 10K post. And at your rate, that's just a matter of days. Planning anything special? Can I throw the party?

T minus 59

Thinking about it. I'll probably miss it and post "Just Thor" as my 10000th post...

Maybe we can have a roast...

You get roasted on a daily basis. We need to think bigger...

[lorddunlow]

...Gil-Ahd's ...

I noticed that as well...

Hey, you're coming up on the big 10K post. And at your rate, that's just a matter of days. Planning anything special? Can I throw the party?

T minus 59

Thinking about it. I'll probably miss it and post "Just Thor" as my 10000th post...

Maybe we can have a roast...

You get roasted on a daily basis. We need to think bigger...

[Sven the Returned]

Finally got to this. Very good stuff. I still wish for more of the Pak stuff, but I'm sure that VEI has disavowed all knowledge of that incarnation.

It's a bit of a shame. I was interested in the concept of all those various Houses enough to want to see more of it. The excecution was mildly lacking, but the idea was cool. Having houses in addition to the Geomancer as part of Gil-Ahd's background makes it a tad richer, IMO.

I'm not a fan of seeing all that stuff get swept under a carpet like that. That's not how you clean up a mess. I'd really like to see them get a story written that reconciles all that stuff. It *was* published - it should be treated as part of the mythos!

Who is the legendary master of convoluted continuities who could fix this?

[leonmallett]

Finally got to this. Very good stuff. I still wish for more of the Pak stuff, but I'm sure that VEI has disavowed all knowledge of that incarnation.

It's a bit of a shame. I was interested in the concept of all those various Houses enough to want to see more of it. The excecution was mildly lacking, but the idea was cool. Having houses in addition to the Geomancer as part of Gil-Ahd's background makes it a tad richer, IMO.

I'm not a fan of seeing all that stuff get swept under a carpet like that. That's not how you clean up a mess. I'd really like to see them get a story written that reconciles all that stuff. It *was* published - it should be treated as part of the mythos!

Who is the legendary master of convoluted continuities who could fix this?

I honestly think the right choice of writer could reconcile it quite quickly and simply, and a few examples come to mind.

[jmatt]

I honestly think the right choice of writer could reconcile it quite quickly and simply...

Yeah, I don't think it'd be all that difficult to reconcile. There's a fair amount of backstory but the basic tenets and characters involved are not so turned in on themselves that it would be impossible to untangle. Sure, people were less than crazy with some of the books storylines, but the foundation of the book is fine.

Deadside, the Lyceaum, Baron Samedi, Jack, the Loas, the Abettors, the industrialist cabal, Darque, Sandria... none of that needs unwinding. Just a good storyline going forward that selectively uses those elements in a creative and entertaining fashion.

Sure, people were unhappy with the character of Jack, but I can't see that propping him up as "a new and changed man" would be all that difficult. Priest could do it easily enough...