DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by myron »

Chiclo wrote:
Brother J wrote:I dunno, I don't think I would have had Shooter sign an unsigned copy of Birth, just seems like a waste. I know he did it because he wanted to have the only yellow label slabbed copy of this book, but Shooter's autograph is so common, it feels similar to those people who have Stan Lee sign key Silver Age books. Just destroys them, IMO.

What would happen if you took a signed copy of Birth and had Shooter sign it in front of a CGC witness? Would it get a combined yellow/green label or something like that? :?
I couldn't agree more. I was baffled when I first read about this - I would think it would be more valuable to the hobby unsigned than with a yellow label.
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by apacseller »

So is one of these more preferable than the other? Are green labels hated universally?
http://imgur.com/a/xV7QR

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by StarBrand »

apacseller wrote:So is one of these more preferable than the other? Are green labels hated universally?
http://imgur.com/a/xV7QR
I'd say they're pretty much hated universally. I despise the condescending way CGC does the green labels.
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by apacseller »

StarBrand wrote:
apacseller wrote:So is one of these more preferable than the other? Are green labels hated universally?
http://imgur.com/a/xV7QR
I'd say they're pretty much hated universally. I despise the condescending way CGC does the green labels.
So probably worth sending the green one back to CCG for a reslab?

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by greg »

I don't know why the signed copy got a blue label. I think that's a CGC mistake.

If you send a green back, they will likely tell you green is the only option.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by apacseller »

greg wrote:I don't know why the signed copy got a blue label. I think that's a CGC mistake.

If you send a green back, they will likely tell you green is the only option.
Ahh, good to know. Guess I got lucky with my submission last month!! I figured they had changed policy on green labels and signed editions.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by greg »

That would be a major policy change in year 17 of their existence. It's more likely an oversight.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by apacseller »

greg wrote:That would be a major policy change in year 17 of their existence. It's more likely an oversight.
Ahh, cool. I'll take it!

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by Chiclo »

apacseller wrote:So is one of these more preferable than the other? Are green labels hated universally?
http://imgur.com/a/xV7QR
Speaking as someone who has collected Defiant comics and is familiar with them -

I could care less what the colour of that label is, blue, green, yellow, rainbow. Those comics were all supposed to be signed and for one to be discovered without a signature was highly significant. Looking at this as a collector who is more focused on Defiant collectibles and who does not really care much about CGC, it seems like a tremendous waste to take this rare, possibly one-of-a-kind unsigned comic and then get THAT SAME GUY'S SIGNATURE ON IT just to submit it to CGC and get a one-of-a-kind yellow label on this comic that is now just like every other one of this already pretty rare comic produced.

I can see how someone who is more focused on slabs and registries than Defiant comics would prefer the opportunity to have a one-of-a-kind label than a one-of-a-kind comic. I would never have thought of doing that in a million years! And it only goes to highlight to me the difference in the way I collect to the way some others collect. Not better, not worse, just different with different foci. I want the comic, he wants the label. I probably would not have slabbed it anyways.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by greg »

Chiclo wrote:
apacseller wrote:So is one of these more preferable than the other? Are green labels hated universally?
http://imgur.com/a/xV7QR
Speaking as someone who has collected Defiant comics and is familiar with them -

I could care less what the colour of that label is, blue, green, yellow, rainbow. Those comics were all supposed to be signed and for one to be discovered without a signature was highly significant. Looking at this as a collector who is more focused on Defiant collectibles and who does not really care much about CGC, it seems like a tremendous waste to take this rare, possibly one-of-a-kind unsigned comic and then get THAT SAME GUY'S SIGNATURE ON IT just to submit it to CGC and get a one-of-a-kind yellow label on this comic that is now just like every other one of this already pretty rare comic produced.

I can see how someone who is more focused on slabs and registries than Defiant comics would prefer the opportunity to have a one-of-a-kind label than a one-of-a-kind comic. I would never have thought of doing that in a million years! And it only goes to highlight to me the difference in the way I collect to the way some others collect. Not better, not worse, just different with different foci. I want the comic, he wants the label. I probably would not have slabbed it anyways.
To quote an elder statesman of my youth, "Settle down, Beavis!" :lol:

There were about 5 unsigned copies of Birth of the Defiant Universe found in the private collection of JayJay Jackson.
You could call them printer's proofs or artist proofs or just unsigned copies not part of the official 1,000.
One of them, the best one, was submitted to CGC without any signature and received a CGC 9.9 rating.
That's the best unsigned copy in existence. It's unique.

One of them was signed by Jim Shooter and submitted to CGC for a yellow label (witnessed) signature.
Unlike the other 1,000 copies which were signed in the 1990s, this one doesn't have a number on it / 1,000.
It's just signed, and it is clearly different from the other 1,000 copies because it is unnumbered. It's unique.

So, instead of about 5 identical raw unsigned copies, there are now two previously-unknown unique copies in existence.

"Never in a million years" would they even exist if you were in charge. We'd just have 5 unsigned raw books.
Thankfully for the rest of us, you weren't in charge. :P

(Neither was I... but I did purchase both unique books after they had been CGC'd.) :thumb:

Green labels don't bother me at all when it comes to pre-CGC signed books.
The label is green because CGC didn't exist when the books were signed, not because someone cut a coupon out of the book or because it has some kind of defect.
CGC gives a green label to both situations, unwitnessed signatures and missing coupons. Green labels might be reviled, but only one of those types of green labels is actually a problem.

When it comes to Birth of the Defiant Universe, there are 1,000 signed copies... all of them signed in 1993. Thus far, 98% of the copies in existence have not been sent to CGC.
All of the original 1,000 should have a green label if they are sent to CGC, and not one of them should be considered damaged/flawed/defective for being green.

Kermit even sang about it.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by Chiclo »

greg wrote:"Never in a million years" would they even exist if you were in charge. We'd just have 5 unsigned raw books.
Thankfully for the rest of us, you weren't in charge. :P
My rant came out sounding harsher than it was intended, particularly this point. I mean that statement as literally as it can be taken, had I considered one of these books for a million years, the thought to get it signed for a yellow label would not have occurred to me.

No single thing better embodies the difference between my approach to collecting and the CGC guys than this single comic, even if there are 4 more unsigned copies, including a slabbed 9.9. I suppose I am still marvelling at my self-awareness about this difference. Much navel gazing.

I did not intend for my rant to imply that CGC does not offer a worthwhile service to the hobby nor that I have any animosity or dislike for CGC. I have several CGC slabs but that is not what I collect. Were I in charge, I would be no more or less interested in CGC than I am now, very much not in charge.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by greg »

Chiclo wrote:
greg wrote:"Never in a million years" would they even exist if you were in charge. We'd just have 5 unsigned raw books.
Thankfully for the rest of us, you weren't in charge. :P
My rant came out sounding harsher than it was intended, particularly this point. I mean that statement as literally as it can be taken, had I considered one of these books for a million years, the thought to get it signed for a yellow label would not have occurred to me.

No single thing better embodies the difference between my approach to collecting and the CGC guys than this single comic, even if there are 4 more unsigned copies, including a slabbed 9.9. I suppose I am still marvelling at my self-awareness about this difference. Much navel gazing.

I did not intend for my rant to imply that CGC does not offer a worthwhile service to the hobby nor that I have any animosity or dislike for CGC. I have several CGC slabs but that is not what I collect. Were I in charge, I would be no more or less interested in CGC than I am now, very much not in charge.
To summarize, Beavis has settled down. :lol:

Since at least 95% of my collection is not slabbed, and since 99.9% of the comics available to me for local purchasing are not slabbed, I recognize that CGC is getting far too much focus from a quantitative view of the industry.

From a qualitative view, however, I've seen numbers to suggest that up to half of all dollars spent in online auctions for comics are for slabbed comics, even though 95% of all auctions are for unslabbed comics.

The "sweet spot" appears to be about $100. If a comic book sells for $100 (or more) in its natural (unslabbed) condition, then it is likely that CGC could provide an additional profit to the seller... if the seller has the time/money to use CGC and if (this is the BIG if) the comic is actually in the condition the seller claims.

Since it is still possible to purchase a raw copy of Birth of the Defiant Universe for less than $100, there is not a lot of incentive to submit them to CGC.
Throw in the fact that Birth of the Defiant Universe should always receive a green CGC label, which has some detractors among CGC buyers, and there's less incentive to submit them to CGC.

However, I believe that a truly 9.8 (or higher) condition Birth of the Defiant Universe is worth at least $100 and there is at least a small portion of the 1,000 signed copies that deserve to be recognized by CGC (or CBCS) for their outstanding conditions and those sellers deserve to get more than the average raw price for the book.

Not many, but some.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by myron »

greg wrote:<snip>
The "sweet spot" appears to be about $100. If a comic book sells for $100 (or more) in its natural (unslabbed) condition, then it is likely that CGC could provide an additional profit to the seller... if the seller has the time/money to use CGC and if (this is the BIG if) the comic is actually in the condition the seller claims.

Since it is still possible to purchase a raw copy of Birth of the Defiant Universe for less than $100, there is not a lot of incentive to submit them to CGC.
Throw in the fact that Birth of the Defiant Universe should always receive a green CGC label, which has some detractors among CGC buyers, and there's less incentive to submit them to CGC.

However, I believe that a truly 9.8 (or higher) condition Birth of the Defiant Universe is worth at least $100 and there is at least a small portion of the 1,000 signed copies that deserve to be recognized by CGC (or CBCS) for their outstanding conditions and those sellers deserve to get more than the average raw price for the book.

Not many, but some.
got a chart for that data or is it a hunch?
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by Cyberstrike »

Warriors of Plasm #0 5,555 limited tin, it's the one with the audio tape.

I once found 3 of these tins on eBay for $15 for all 3, and because the seller was unwilling to wait or give me an extra 2 weeks so I could get the money to buy them I had to pass on them, and I don't think he sold them at that time. :!: :!:
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by StarBrand »

This Splatterball no seal variant sold today for $250 on a best offer. Looks like the two board members who bought my slabbed copies got a great deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162585304132?rmvSB=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by OhioValiantNut »

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by Brother J »

Cyberstrike wrote:Warriors of Plasm #0 5,555 limited tin, it's the one with the audio tape.

I once found 3 of these tins on eBay for $15 for all 3, and because the seller was unwilling to wait or give me an extra 2 weeks so I could get the money to buy them I had to pass on them, and I don't think he sold them at that time. :!: :!:
I agree that tin is not easy to come by. Supposedly there are over 5,000 of those, but my theory has always been that since it had such a high price point when new, most of them were not sold. Makes you wonder if there will ever be a warehouse find of the unsold ones.

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by hulk181man »

Hey guys, quick question, is there much of a market on the uncut card sheets? I have 3 different uncut sheets.

There are 2 with base set cards, each containing different cards and the 3rd contains multiple sets of all Level 1 and Level 2 foil chase cards.
:?
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by OhioValiantNut »

hulk181man wrote:Hey guys, quick question, is there much of a market on the uncut card sheets? I have 3 different uncut sheets.

There are 2 with base set cards, each containing different cards and the 3rd contains multiple sets of all Level 1 and Level 2 foil chase cards.
:?
If you post them for sale on ebay I can see them selling ... there are people out there who are loony over the Defiant cards ... I could never compete with them because they are fanatical in that area where I was not.
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by Cyberstrike »

Brother J wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:Warriors of Plasm #0 5,555 limited tin, it's the one with the audio tape.

I once found 3 of these tins on eBay for $15 for all 3, and because the seller was unwilling to wait or give me an extra 2 weeks so I could get the money to buy them I had to pass on them, and I don't think he sold them at that time. :!: :!:
I agree that tin is not easy to come by. Supposedly there are over 5,000 of those, but my theory has always been that since it had such a high price point when new, most of them were not sold. Makes you wonder if there will ever be a warehouse find of the unsold ones.
I was actually thinking about doing a charity drive here with 2 them. Sadly it didn't work out.
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by StarBrand »

hulk181man wrote:Hey guys, quick question, is there much of a market on the uncut card sheets? I have 3 different uncut sheets.

There are 2 with base set cards, each containing different cards and the 3rd contains multiple sets of all Level 1 and Level 2 foil chase cards.
:?
This one has been listed for awhile. The asking price has come down over time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Defiant-comics- ... Ciid%253A4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by corvettejim1968 »

greg wrote:I thought I had the DEFIANT holy grail. :cry:

Image

:D


this is the only one ive seen that does not have ?/1000

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by StarBrand »

Hi Jim! It's Mark from Phoenix. I'm going to send you a PM.
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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by corvettejim1968 »

StarBrand wrote:This is the comic I believe to be the DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail. It's the Splatterball no foil variant. It's extremely difficult to find. It's possible less than ten exist. If anyone has one, I'd love to see a pic posted here. Thanks.

Image
Image

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Re: DEFIANT Comics Holy Grail

Post by corvettejim1968 »

According to my notes the plasm 0 stand-alone issue is between 25 to 50 copies that exist this is not one of the ones that has been pulled out and bound and glued this is actually manufactured with a regular cover on it with one staple in the middle.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ ... lrzu4r.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by corvettejim1968 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:23:09 am, edited 1 time in total.


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