Long Term Collectability of modern comics
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- Intrepidxc
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Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I've been thinking about this for a while, and couldn't decide if I should post here or in another forum. Greg, if I'm off base please move me to the correct forum.
Question: What do you believe the long term collectability of modern/copper comics? 50 years from now will there be demand for any of the modern titles we currently enjoy?
I struggle with this question every day that I spend money on modern comics. As some of you may know I'm primarily a modern collector, although I do have a smattering of GA/SA comics in my collection. I'm primarily a modern collector because that's when my relationship with comics began. In the early 90s I was in middle school and have fond memories of picking up VH1 titles at my LCS, riding home on my bike, reading them, bagging/boarding them, and filing them away. Many of these comics became the foundation of my collection when I returned to the hobby several years ago.
As an adult my return to comic collecting focused primarily on VH1 Valiant and early Image titles. To most people there is nothing of serious value in any of the Valiant or early Image titles. However to me they bring back the feeling of my childhood and many of the fond memories at my LCS.
Fast forward to the present and my collecting trends stay with Modern books that I enjoy reading. This includes Valiant (all titles), multiple Image titles, some Vertigo, etc. I collect CGC issues of those series I enjoy and don't chase the current hot title. If I don't read it, I don't collect it. In my mind this makes my collecting about the books and stories I enjoy and not about chasing the next hot comic I can sell for profit.
Now that I've pontificated what do you guys think about Modern comics years from now? What comics will hold there value and which are fleeting? Some specific titles I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on are:
1. The Range of VEI titles in particular new characters such as Divinity
2. TWD early issues
3. Y the Last Man
4. Chew
5. Saga
6. Preacher (21 years old already, but still falls in modern)
7. Invincible
8. Peter Panzerfaust (I think this one has already started to fall off in value, but I enjoyed the read)
9. Enormous
10. East of West
Feel free to comment on any modern title. These are some of the titles I read and hopefully will serve to start a discussion.
Question: What do you believe the long term collectability of modern/copper comics? 50 years from now will there be demand for any of the modern titles we currently enjoy?
I struggle with this question every day that I spend money on modern comics. As some of you may know I'm primarily a modern collector, although I do have a smattering of GA/SA comics in my collection. I'm primarily a modern collector because that's when my relationship with comics began. In the early 90s I was in middle school and have fond memories of picking up VH1 titles at my LCS, riding home on my bike, reading them, bagging/boarding them, and filing them away. Many of these comics became the foundation of my collection when I returned to the hobby several years ago.
As an adult my return to comic collecting focused primarily on VH1 Valiant and early Image titles. To most people there is nothing of serious value in any of the Valiant or early Image titles. However to me they bring back the feeling of my childhood and many of the fond memories at my LCS.
Fast forward to the present and my collecting trends stay with Modern books that I enjoy reading. This includes Valiant (all titles), multiple Image titles, some Vertigo, etc. I collect CGC issues of those series I enjoy and don't chase the current hot title. If I don't read it, I don't collect it. In my mind this makes my collecting about the books and stories I enjoy and not about chasing the next hot comic I can sell for profit.
Now that I've pontificated what do you guys think about Modern comics years from now? What comics will hold there value and which are fleeting? Some specific titles I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on are:
1. The Range of VEI titles in particular new characters such as Divinity
2. TWD early issues
3. Y the Last Man
4. Chew
5. Saga
6. Preacher (21 years old already, but still falls in modern)
7. Invincible
8. Peter Panzerfaust (I think this one has already started to fall off in value, but I enjoyed the read)
9. Enormous
10. East of West
Feel free to comment on any modern title. These are some of the titles I read and hopefully will serve to start a discussion.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I am not the most knowledgeable person in this category, but I would be willing to wager that TWD is a comic for the future, it will last. I was brought on by the show, and I can remember the massive impact it had on me. My brother-in-law hooked me up with the first 100 episodes on Comicrack, and I read each one! Now, there might be fall off on SOME of the comics, but the #1's, first appearances, death of, #100, etc will always have staying power. Could TWD be the gold standard for modern comics? maybe thee only comic to have true staying power?Intrepidxc wrote:Now that I've pontificated what do you guys think about Modern comics years from now? What comics will hold there value and which are fleeting? Some specific titles I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on are:
1. The Range of VEI titles in particular new characters such as Divinity
2. TWD early issues
3. Y the Last Man
4. Chew
5. Saga
6. Preacher (21 years old already, but still falls in modern)
7. Invincible
8. Peter Panzerfaust (I think this one has already started to fall off in value, but I enjoyed the read)
9. Enormous
10. East of West
Feel free to comment on any modern title. These are some of the titles I read and hopefully will serve to start a discussion.
While the comic is fantastic, it was the show that catapulted the comic into the stratosphere. Now the show pushes the comic, the comic pushes the show. Both are still reaching out and finding new fans.
I've heard rumor that TWD ends on #300 and I believe it should last that long. I'm sure Image's ratings on that comic book are pretty steady/solid, so that would support #300 as well.
Moose
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Preacher, TWD, and many VEI and VH1 titles should stand the test of time. The same goes for some of the others you've listed. Some people said that copper age books would never be worth anything. As years have passed, we see many copper age keys that have held high value. Hulk 330, 340, ASM 300, New Mutant 87, 98, Sandman 1, 8, Moon Knight 55, 57, X-Men 266 are all a few books that quickly come to mind that have easily held high value. The same was said about bronze age comics years ago and there are tons of solid books that are tightly held in personal collections. As years go by, the books that were hard to afford as kids become more attainable once college degrees and careers are reached. Once I was in my career my love for comics as a kid were rekindled and I had the buying power to go back and get my favorite bronze and copper age keys I couldn't swing as a ten-year old. I suspect the same will happen with newer generations with these modern keys.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I feel like the categories (Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Copper Age, etc.) will fade away eventually... especially the newer ones. Golden Age will be the last to disappear (if it ever does).
What you're left with is key issues that matter to collectors. Amazing Fantasy #15 is 55 years old this year... so even though it is "Silver Age", it is already older than Action Comics #1 was in 1992.
I believe we'll eventually just have key issues and their dates:
Action Comics #1 from 1938
Amazing Fantasy #15 from 1961
Incredible Hulk #181 from 1974
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 from 1984
Harbinger #1 from 1992
The strength of each key issue will depend on what makes that issue "key" in the first place, the number available in the market, and the difficulty in adding that book to a collection.
Harbinger #1 will likely always trail New Mutants #98 in terms of "key recognition", because Deadpool is a movie which earned around $800,000,000 worldwide in theaters.
But New Mutants #98 will always be about the same age as Harbinger #1 and New Mutants #98 will always have significantly more copies in existence than Harbinger #1.
There's something to be said for sticking with the "major keys" because they have the largest pool of collectors, but that should always be weighed against the number of copies in existence.
As far as the other "low numbered issues" go for a popular title, I'm having a very hard time thinking of key issues that are #1 in their title which hold significant value for #2 through #10.
The Walking Dead, Invincible, Chew, Y the Last Man, Preacher, Saga... basically your whole list is #1 as keys, and #2 through whenever as "not very special in the market".
There are exceptions, but those are due to first appearances, not due to just being "low numbered" (#2, #3, etc.).
What you're left with is key issues that matter to collectors. Amazing Fantasy #15 is 55 years old this year... so even though it is "Silver Age", it is already older than Action Comics #1 was in 1992.
I believe we'll eventually just have key issues and their dates:
Action Comics #1 from 1938
Amazing Fantasy #15 from 1961
Incredible Hulk #181 from 1974
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 from 1984
Harbinger #1 from 1992
The strength of each key issue will depend on what makes that issue "key" in the first place, the number available in the market, and the difficulty in adding that book to a collection.
Harbinger #1 will likely always trail New Mutants #98 in terms of "key recognition", because Deadpool is a movie which earned around $800,000,000 worldwide in theaters.
But New Mutants #98 will always be about the same age as Harbinger #1 and New Mutants #98 will always have significantly more copies in existence than Harbinger #1.
There's something to be said for sticking with the "major keys" because they have the largest pool of collectors, but that should always be weighed against the number of copies in existence.
As far as the other "low numbered issues" go for a popular title, I'm having a very hard time thinking of key issues that are #1 in their title which hold significant value for #2 through #10.
The Walking Dead, Invincible, Chew, Y the Last Man, Preacher, Saga... basically your whole list is #1 as keys, and #2 through whenever as "not very special in the market".
There are exceptions, but those are due to first appearances, not due to just being "low numbered" (#2, #3, etc.).
- Intrepidxc
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Good point greg. Other than TWD, I'm not sure there really are significant issues for some of the other series. TWD Issues 2-10, 19, 27 seem to stand out as issues with some "key" value. However other than the last issue of Chew, Y The Last Man, etc. I can't think of another issue beyond #1 that has value. In fact I can pick up most of the Chew run in CGC 9.8 for essentially slabbing costs.greg wrote:
As far as the other "low numbered issues" go for a popular title, I'm having a very hard time thinking of key issues that are #1 in their title which hold significant value for #2 through #10.
The Walking Dead, Invincible, Chew, Y the Last Man, Preacher, Saga... basically your whole list is #1 as keys, and #2 through whenever as "not very special in the market".
There are exceptions, but those are due to first appearances, not due to just being "low numbered" (#2, #3, etc.).
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Then what's the point in slabbing cheep useless comics. And having 25 9.8's out there. Shouldn't slabbing be for the valuable ones.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Many people who are my age love the early Image books. I've probably sold 10 copies of Pitt 1 in9. 8 for $40-50. You can get the book incredibly cheaply raw, but nostalgia wins for some collectors, and to be able to buy a pristine copy in a beautiful case you can put on your desk is really cool for them. Not much different than me collecting common V1 issues in 9.8.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
True and if you got the spair cash why not.nycjadie wrote:I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Many people who are my age love the early Image books. I've probably sold 10 copies of Pitt 1 in9. 8 for $40-50. You can get the book incredibly cheaply raw, but nostalgia wins for some collectors, and to be able to buy a pristine copy in a beautiful case you can put on your desk is really cool for them. Not much different than me collecting common V1 issues in 9.8.
So let's say there are 25 graded Harby line wides and only 5 9.8's but only one of them is with the with the new valiant lable. Do you think one with the special label is worth the same as the other four. Since its one of five high grades but only one of its kind. Should be worth more for the one of a kind Valiant label.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I don't know if the label will do anything for value. I just think they're cool.nonplayer wrote:True and if you got the spair cash why not.nycjadie wrote:I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Many people who are my age love the early Image books. I've probably sold 10 copies of Pitt 1 in9. 8 for $40-50. You can get the book incredibly cheaply raw, but nostalgia wins for some collectors, and to be able to buy a pristine copy in a beautiful case you can put on your desk is really cool for them. Not much different than me collecting common V1 issues in 9.8.
So let's say there are 25 graded Harby line wides and only 5 9.8's but only one of them is with the with the new valiant lable. Do you think one with the special label is worth the same as the other four. Since its one of five high grades but only one of its kind. Should be worth more for the one of a kind Valiant label.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Has the overall readership of comics or specifically the readership of monthly print comics ever increased since the bubble burst in the mid '90s? If you assume the readership is constantly shrinking as people switch to trades, electronic comics, or find other forms of entertainment all together, then you have a situation where this year's print runs will always be greater than the number of next year's collectors, ie. the supply created today will always be greater than tomorrow's demand. That's a pretty bad outlook for long term collector value overall. I think the comic collector market of the future is going to be more and more about key books and key books only, and you're looking at nothing but depreciation on the rest of your average back issues.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I think this is a wonderful question and topic. I have thought long and hard about this very topic. I believe WD will be important for the long term... Period! I won the registry in 2006 and was just AMAZED at the very little interest in the title. After the show started... Well we all know what happened. The long term part comes from the impact the show has made on the ENTIRE generation of viewers. As time goes by, more and more non collectors or readers will collect just because they loved the show so much AND comic collectors will continue to move towards collecting the books because they ARE so hot and will have staying power. (Think hulk 181 here.. Just keeps going up over time)
As for Valiant... (People are worried about readership numbers) the base is actually growing. For example, I was member 420 ( ) and now we are over 3000. It used to be all craziness over VH1 stuff, then VEI started and it didn't get the respect it deserved(focus still on VH1) and finally it seems like VEI has surpassed the VH1 interest and collectors are REALLY focusing on them. Now lets just fast forward 20 years after movies and constant print.... You never know but I am betting it is ALOT more popular than it is now. I wasn't wrong about TWD and I sure as hell don't think I'm wrong about Dino and company.
As for value overall... It just takes time... As books get locked up in collections, the values go up on those fewer issues that do surface. Just look back at ANY valuable comic and check its history. Look at Harbinger 1... It's a $1000 book already without ANY mainstream push... hell, even few comic collectors know about it. What will happen is the price could skyrocket even higher because we had so many hoarders loading up while it was rather cheap.
Print runs matter as well as content of book. So Hulk 181 has 8600+ books graded and a 9.8 sells for nearly $14,000. Look at Divinity with only a 8600 book print run total. Not saying Divinity will ever be as big as Wolverine but you get the point. Especially with only 350 variants out there.... Yikes!
Rico
As for Valiant... (People are worried about readership numbers) the base is actually growing. For example, I was member 420 ( ) and now we are over 3000. It used to be all craziness over VH1 stuff, then VEI started and it didn't get the respect it deserved(focus still on VH1) and finally it seems like VEI has surpassed the VH1 interest and collectors are REALLY focusing on them. Now lets just fast forward 20 years after movies and constant print.... You never know but I am betting it is ALOT more popular than it is now. I wasn't wrong about TWD and I sure as hell don't think I'm wrong about Dino and company.
As for value overall... It just takes time... As books get locked up in collections, the values go up on those fewer issues that do surface. Just look back at ANY valuable comic and check its history. Look at Harbinger 1... It's a $1000 book already without ANY mainstream push... hell, even few comic collectors know about it. What will happen is the price could skyrocket even higher because we had so many hoarders loading up while it was rather cheap.
Print runs matter as well as content of book. So Hulk 181 has 8600+ books graded and a 9.8 sells for nearly $14,000. Look at Divinity with only a 8600 book print run total. Not saying Divinity will ever be as big as Wolverine but you get the point. Especially with only 350 variants out there.... Yikes!
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
My hard wars #4 bleeding monk. Harbinger 8 line wide 9.8 Shadowman black 9.8 will have the limited Valiant cgc labels first of these kind
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
jeremycoe wrote:I don't know if the label will do anything for value. I just think they're cool.nonplayer wrote:True and if you got the spair cash why not.nycjadie wrote:I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Many people who are my age love the early Image books. I've probably sold 10 copies of Pitt 1 in9. 8 for $40-50. You can get the book incredibly cheaply raw, but nostalgia wins for some collectors, and to be able to buy a pristine copy in a beautiful case you can put on your desk is really cool for them. Not much different than me collecting common V1 issues in 9.8.
So let's say there are 25 graded Harby line wides and only 5 9.8's but only one of them is with the with the new valiant lable. Do you think one with the special label is worth the same as the other four. Since its one of five high grades but only one of its kind. Should be worth more for the one of a kind Valiant label.
I don't CGC, but I disagree. If I collected CGC books, I'de want and value the Valiant label over non-Valiant labels.
and I mean, come on.... we are Valiant fans. You put Valiant anything on a shot glass or a box cutter or a cheap(ish) replica ax..... and we go nutso for it.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Yes on the Key book point. But....GammaJosh wrote:Has the overall readership of comics or specifically the readership of monthly print comics ever increased since the bubble burst in the mid '90s? If you assume the readership is constantly shrinking as people switch to trades, electronic comics, or find other forms of entertainment all together, then you have a situation where this year's print runs will always be greater than the number of next year's collectors, ie. the supply created today will always be greater than tomorrow's demand. That's a pretty bad outlook for long term collector value overall. I think the comic collector market of the future is going to be more and more about key books and key books only, and you're looking at nothing but depreciation on the rest of your average back issues.
I can name over 100 key books (in like 10-15 min) that were once "nothing" and are now key. So........
Also, there are still guys who "collect". They will always need the single issues.
The issue is.... if you are "investing" or "speculating" in modern / newish books..... be careful. I'd say like 95% of books coming out now, will be $1 fodder for like the next 20 years. Then..... they become the new "Copper" books and then wash rinse repeat.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Yup I think about how happy stimpy gets in his cat litter. love my bloodshot Reborn box cutter I use it regularly and when it's not in use its in a special stand in my office encased in plex glass. Like a autographed Base ball.Elveen wrote:jeremycoe wrote:I don't know if the label will do anything for value. I just think they're cool.nonplayer wrote:True and if you got the spair cash why not.nycjadie wrote:I think value is in the eye of the beholder. Many people who are my age love the early Image books. I've probably sold 10 copies of Pitt 1 in9. 8 for $40-50. You can get the book incredibly cheaply raw, but nostalgia wins for some collectors, and to be able to buy a pristine copy in a beautiful case you can put on your desk is really cool for them. Not much different than me collecting common V1 issues in 9.8.
So let's say there are 25 graded Harby line wides and only 5 9.8's but only one of them is with the with the new valiant lable. Do you think one with the special label is worth the same as the other four. Since its one of five high grades but only one of its kind. Should be worth more for the one of a kind Valiant label.
I don't CGC, but I disagree. If I collected CGC books, I'de want and value the Valiant label over non-Valiant labels.
and I mean, come on.... we are Valiant fans. You put Valiant anything on a shot glass or a box cutter or a cheap(ish) replica ax..... and we go nutso for it.
I Miss the good old days.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Great discussion guys. I'm enjoying seeing your thoughts.
Here is another question. Will key issues remain key issues in the future? Here are a couple books for discussion:
Batman #232 - First Ra's al Guhl
House of Secrets #92 - First Swamp Thing
Thoughts?
Here is another question. Will key issues remain key issues in the future? Here are a couple books for discussion:
Batman #232 - First Ra's al Guhl
House of Secrets #92 - First Swamp Thing
Thoughts?
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
First aperiance of bloodshot will always be a key. As long as people care. If they don't it goes in the 0.50 bin.Intrepidxc wrote:Great discussion guys. I'm enjoying seeing your thoughts.
Here is another question. Will key issues remain key issues in the future? Here are a couple books for discussion:
Batman #232 - First Ra's al Guhl
House of Secrets #92 - First Swamp Thing
Thoughts?
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I love comics but I rarely see anybody below age 30 in my LCBS unless they have been dragged in there by their pops. Imo, print comics have become a niche that will cease to exist within 75 years. It pains me to type it, but I believe so.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I agree. I think it's a " graying" hobby, as other hobbies have been labeled. I try and make my collection as net zero as possible by selling because I figure most of it will be worthless. And hey, I enjoy it immensely and perhaps to those books Ive always wanted will be that much more attainable
I just bought GA Hit Comics 4th appearance of Kid Eternity (can't recall the number) for $40 in F. Where did I get it? At a store! I haven't seen those kind of deals in a long time.
I just bought GA Hit Comics 4th appearance of Kid Eternity (can't recall the number) for $40 in F. Where did I get it? At a store! I haven't seen those kind of deals in a long time.
- Elveen
- I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
When I was 1st getting into to business side of it all and had a dude that I really respect tell me.....Intrepidxc wrote:Great discussion guys. I'm enjoying seeing your thoughts.
Here is another question. Will key issues remain key issues in the future? Here are a couple books for discussion:
Batman #232 - First Ra's al Guhl
House of Secrets #92 - First Swamp Thing
Thoughts?
"The 1st app will always be he 1st app".
1st Ras and 1st Swampy. Massive keys!
- Elveen
- I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
The real question is.....
Not will established keys always be keys but...
What will be the new keys? Hence rampant speculation.
Not will established keys always be keys but...
What will be the new keys? Hence rampant speculation.
- Elveen
- I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
nonplayer wrote:First aperiance of bloodshot will always be a key. As long as people care. If they don't it goes in the 0.50 bin.Intrepidxc wrote:Great discussion guys. I'm enjoying seeing your thoughts.
Here is another question. Will key issues remain key issues in the future? Here are a couple books for discussion:
Batman #232 - First Ra's al Guhl
House of Secrets #92 - First Swamp Thing
Thoughts?
Now THIS is an interesting question. Is the 1st Bloodshot a KEY book?
It is now for sure. But it's no where near an established key book.
Now that is a discussion.
When does a key book become a KEY book?
- buff-beardo
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
I think the real question is, who cares and when? Currently, many but I see that number in a slow but steady decline.
Muse Rocks! Check out “The Handler”.
- nutflush76
- Nanite-powered posting
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- Location: Palm Desert, ca.
Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
The LCS in my town is close to the local community college and I am one of the oldest guys every time I go into the store. Also, as for future value, I think that a lot of people fall into the trap that EVERY book needs to rise in value. This just isn't the case. There are still plenty of Bronze and Copper non-keys that are still in the dollar bins.buff-beardo wrote:I love comics but I rarely see anybody below age 30 in my LCBS unless they have been dragged in there by their pops. Imo, print comics have become a niche that will cease to exist within 75 years. It pains me to type it, but I believe so.
Will modern books ever reach the plateau of AF 15, Action Comics #1, or Detective Comics 27? I doubt it. These books changed our culture in a way that not many books these days even can. Will there be $10,000 books in the future? Maybe. The print runs these days are low enough, even on the best selling books, where a book can get hot enough to command that kind of cash. Hell, TWD #1 will probably be one of those books. Some early VH1 books could explode too if the movies are hits.
I think the bottom line is; you need to focus on the key issues if you are going for value. That has been the way of the hobby as long as people have been buying back issues.
- Elveen
- I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
- Posts: 25252
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:44:48 am
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Re: Long Term Collectability of modern comics
Most peeps I sell to at shows are younger than me. I'm 45.
Maybe at comic shops it's different.
But I see plenty of youngish folks.
Maybe at comic shops it's different.
But I see plenty of youngish folks.