slabbing - why or why not? AND has it hurt the hobby?

[aggr1103]

This thread developed out of a thread over at the CGC forums. Guy over there had a Peter Parker Spectacular #1 graded and it came back at 8.5. Needless to say, several folks criticized him for it because a higher grade copy could be bought for less than the slabbing price. I'm trying to defend his reason for doing it based on the fact that some folks will slab for posterity or sentimental reasons and not for the glory of the ol' greenback.

Its frustrating because I know I'll get eaten by the jackals over there. I don't think CGC has hurt the hobby but I think it definitely has drawn a line between business and the hobby itself - which I don't like. It's as if folks only collect for investment and others collect out of enjoyment. The latter being looked down upon for "poor taste" or making "poor investment decisions."

Sorry - just venting for a sec. Would like to hear what others think about it.

[magnusr]

This thread developed out of a thread over at the CGC forums. Guy over there had a Peter Parker Spectacular #1 graded and it came back at 8.5. Needless to say, several folks criticized him for it because a higher grade copy could be bought for less than the slabbing price. I'm trying to defend his reason for doing it based on the fact that some folks will slab for posterity or sentimental reasons and not for the glory of the ol' greenback.

Its frustrating because I know I'll get eaten by the jackals over there. I don't think CGC has hurt the hobby but I think it definitely has drawn a line between business and the hobby itself - which I don't like. It's as if folks only collect for investment and others collect out of enjoyment. The latter being looked down upon for "poor taste" or making "poor investment decisions."

Sorry - just venting for a sec. Would like to hear what others think about it.

It is fascinating. As soon as a book is rather easy to get in a certain grade, all lower grades take a big penalty price-wise. Two different markets have developed, one for slabbed and one for unslabbed books, and weird as it is, low grade books lose value by being slabbed. Like you say, once slabbed, the pure enjoyment is less of a factor.

/Magnus

[Escaflown4]

I also frequent the CGC boards and I do have to say be careful of what you post over there as some of the folks are very egotistical and opinionated. They will eat you alive as soon as you post anything they don't see fit. I saw that thread you were talking about and frankly when it comes to slabbing, you will need to differentiate yourself as either a collector or a dealer. The only thing where I see CGC is hurting the hobby is with modern books. Modern slabs have a 99% chance of depreciating as time goes on. I never quite understood why people like to invest in them as NM/MT copies are just plentiful everywhere. Other then that, I would say CGC did help with online comic trading. You don't need to worry as much as you used to when buying raw books over mail orders to determine whether the grading was accurate and whether the book was restored.

[jbtheo]

I was thinking of slabbing my copy of Spider-Man 300, because the copy I have is what I believe to be NM. But, I won't pay $50 to get it done. I can understand people slabbing a copy of Spider-Man #1 or Fantastic Four #50 or something, but even then they are paying thousands to get it done (I think, because doesn't CGC charge % of the market value for those kind of investment comics?). Why would someone do that if not to sell it for a large profit? If you want to keep it for posterity, then just get some high-end mylar sleeve and put it in a safety deposit box.

If you are a collector, I can understand CGCing something, because it does increase the value, but only is it is 9.6 or higher apparently. If you get something back that is a 9.4 or below, I hear it is not worth it because the market price (on ebay for instance) drops significantly and the price is more or less the same as what you would have gotten if you sold it "raw".

I don't know. I've never collected for $$$ or investment, so I cannot relate to it.

[toddyboy]

I can understand people slabbing a copy of Spider-Man #1 or Fantastic Four #50 or something, but even then they are paying thousands to get it done (I think, because doesn't CGC charge % of the market value for those kind of investment comics?).

can someone validate this statement? i might be in need of slabbing an "investment comic" that i have no intention of flipping in the near future...

[Escaflown4]

I can understand people slabbing a copy of Spider-Man #1 or Fantastic Four #50 or something, but even then they are paying thousands to get it done (I think, because doesn't CGC charge % of the market value for those kind of investment comics?).

can someone validate this statement? i might be in need of slabbing an "investment comic" that i have no intention of flipping in the near future...

You will need to reference their grading tiers on their site. Check the following chart as they give you a maximum value on each tier you submit the book through. I recommend calling them beforehand if you do plan to submit your "investment" book just to make sure.

http://www.cgccomics.com/services/services_and_fees.asp

[geocarr]

Take a look for yourself at the CGC Services and Fees webpage. They do have a tiered pricing system based on the "value" of the book post grading which has been debated here in other threads.

[dbostejano]

Wow so to grade a Walking Dead 1 if you hope for 9.8 it's gonna cost about 60.00?

[greg]

Wow so to grade a Walking Dead 1 if you hope for 9.8 it's gonna cost about 60.00?

No, put it down as a modern book worth $200 (ungraded) and it will cost $17 to slab.

[greg]

I can understand people slabbing a copy of Spider-Man #1 or Fantastic Four #50 or something, but even then they are paying thousands to get it done (I think, because doesn't CGC charge % of the market value for those kind of investment comics?).

can someone validate this statement? i might be in need of slabbing an "investment comic" that i have no intention of flipping in the near future...

Is it worth more than $3,000? If not, the slabbing will cost $85.
(If you have 3 books of that caliber, you can get all three slabbed for $109.)

For books worth more than $3,000, the cost of slabbing is $25 per $1,000 with a minimum fee of $120.

The only way slabbing a comic costs $1,000+ is if the comic itself is worth $40,000+. (2.5% of value)

The CGC service at that price point is more about "authetication" than just grading.
You would want a team of experts looking at a book worth $40,000+ whether you're buying or selling.
Should that team of experts charge a % of the market value? That's debatable...
but it seems clear that the benefit to both the buyer and the seller is more than the 2.5%.

Auction houses don't really do anything and they get 10%+.

[aggr1103]

I'd love to see a legitimate competitor to CGC finally rise up. Seems like baseball and trading cards have like 5 different grading agencies they can use these days.

There's great presentation in having a comic book slabbed. That matters to some folks.

[toddyboy]

thanks for the info guys.

[ckb]

Wow so to grade a Walking Dead 1 if you hope for 9.8 it's gonna cost about 60.00?

No, put it down as a modern book worth $200 (ungraded) and it will cost $17 to slab.

Ah, if it were only true. Sending that book in alone would probably cost about $50 with all the shipping costs added on.

[terreth]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts all.

I find this topic very interesting.

Another question that comes to mind is how will the industry continue to change in light of slabbing? For instance:

1) If slabbing value is a bubble that will eventually burst, how should collectors and investors approach this?

2) If slabbing is here to stay, how should that effect the way collectors or investors approach it?

Perhaps their is a parallel here in the feelings some people have in overall comic marketing (comic shops vs. Wal Mart, etc. & issues vs. collected editions).

I have been tending to think lately that the gap between collectors and investors is growing as time goes on.

Any thoughts?

[Escaflown4]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts all.

I find this topic very interesting.

Another question that comes to mind is how will the industry continue to change in light of slabbing? For instance:

1) If slabbing value is a bubble that will eventually burst, how should collectors and investors approach this?

2) If slabbing is here to stay, how should that effect the way collectors or investors approach it?

Perhaps their is a parallel here in the feelings some people have in overall comic marketing (comic shops vs. Wal Mart, etc. & issues vs. collected editions).

I have been tending to think lately that the gap between collectors and investors is growing as time goes on.

Any thoughts?

If the CGC bubble would ever burst, I doubt it will have much effect on Golden Age books and Silver Age major key issues. Anything from the Bronze to Modern books will most likely take the biggest impact. If you're really concerned with long term investment in slabs, I would focus on Golden and Silver Age.

[aggr1103]

This whole discussion reminds me of the arguments for "significant" comic book issues. Investors put scarcity and value ahead of overall impact of a comic to the medium or change of canon in a series.

[aggr1103]

Finally coming to terms with my slabbing frustrations. It took some pm's from folks who shared my anger towards the snobbery of grading to help me get centered about the issue.

The majority of the grading snobs focus on modern tier comics, which through slabbing provides them inflated value. A 9.8 comic that came out this month is really just worth cover price and not more. All the slab does is inflate its value. Eventually, in my opinion, this bubble will burst on modern tier 9.8's. I think more modern cgc submissions will focus on signature series as a justifiable means of increasing a modern comics value.

I still believe that if a comic means something to you and you want it encapsulated - slab it. No matter the age.

As far as golden and silver age comics, I believe slabbing provides legit accuracy of grade for sale and trade, as well as assists in determining its value against other issues sold.

[terreth]

Finally coming to terms with my slabbing frustrations. It took some pm's from folks who shared my anger towards the snobbery of grading to help me get centered about the issue.

The majority of the grading snobs focus on modern tier comics, which through slabbing provides them inflated value. A 9.8 comic that came out this month is really just worth cover price and not more. All the slab does is inflate its value. Eventually, in my opinion, this bubble will burst on modern tier 9.8's. I think more modern cgc submissions will focus on signature series as a justifiable means of increasing a modern comics value.

I still believe that if a comic means something to you and you want it encapsulated - slab it. No matter the age.

As far as golden and silver age comics, I believe slabbing provides legit accuracy of grade for sale and trade, as well as assists in determining its value against other issues sold.

Well said.

[slym2none]

Wow so to grade a Walking Dead 1 if you hope for 9.8 it's gonna cost about 60.00?

No, put it down as a modern book worth $200 (ungraded) and it will cost $17 to slab.

Ah, if it were only true. Sending that book in alone would probably cost about $50 with all the shipping costs added on.

I sent in 5 books to be graded, and it ended up costing me an average of $22 per book for grading and shipping to & fro.

Five seems to be the breaking point number for us who don't slab a lot, if ever past the first time.



-slym

[BruceReville]

Comics are meant to be read - not slabbed. I refuse to buy CGCs and not because of the price, but because I can't open up my **** book!

You know what I really like the most about old/old comics? Especially the Golden Age ones -- the smell. Yeah I'm a dork!

[Drift]

Comics are meant to be read - not slabbed. I refuse to buy CGCs and not because of the price, but because I can't open up my **** book!

You know what I really like the most about old/old comics? Especially the Golden Age ones -- the smell. Yeah I'm a dork!

I know what you mean. Draco got me a JLA v1 #2 for my birthday and the first thing I did was smell it and it was good.

[Draco]

Comics are meant to be read - not slabbed. I refuse to buy CGCs and not because of the price, but because I can't open up my **** book!

You know what I really like the most about old/old comics? Especially the Golden Age ones -- the smell. Yeah I'm a dork!

I know what you mean. Draco got me a JLA v1 #2 for my birthday and the first thing I did was smell it and it was good.

Yeah that was a cool moment watching someone else enjoy that dank musty flavour, plus we got some kooky looks from some freaks on the other pool table.

[ian_house]

Comics are meant to be read - not slabbed. I refuse to buy CGCs and not because of the price, but because I can't open up my **** book!

You know what I really like the most about old/old comics? Especially the Golden Age ones -- the smell. Yeah I'm a dork!

I know what you mean. Draco got me a JLA v1 #2 for my birthday and the first thing I did was smell it and it was good.

Yeah that was a cool moment watching someone else enjoy that dank musty flavour, plus we got some kooky looks from some freaks on the other pool table.

freaks on the pool table... from the peeps smelling old paper!

[400yrs]

I've been going through my old ASMs. I think the smell is nasty.

[hulk181man]

Comics are meant to be read - not slabbed. I refuse to buy CGCs and not because of the price, but because I can't open up my **** book!

You know what I really like the most about old/old comics? Especially the Golden Age ones -- the smell. Yeah I'm a dork!

I know what you mean. Draco got me a JLA v1 #2 for my birthday and the first thing I did was smell it and it was good.

Yeah that was a cool moment watching someone else enjoy that dank musty flavour, plus we got some kooky looks from some freaks on the other pool table.

That's fantastic and quite a gift

One of my buds and I have often done that when we break open an old 60's issue or so...I love the smell of old comic newsprint! It's the scent of nostalgia --- non-comic people will just never understand