Valiant just launched an official Discord

[TheFerg714]

He had 5 years though, didn't he?

Which is... honestly not much in the grand scheme of things? It's weird how you're trying to diminish their accomplishments.

Think about how long it took Marvel and DC to get to the point where they're at now. When you look at the numbers, Valiant was actually very successful, compared to other indie publishers. I have no doubt that Valiant could have easily jumped to the 4th most lucrative publisher (after Image) within 5-10 years.

How many people actively use this board? 25? 50? 100? The numbers would not be represent anything other than a small proportion of readership, and for DMG, a lot of what they have done has been decried here, so why would they actively pursue this board's active membership.

Oh, I don't know, maybe because this board kept Valiant interest going throughout the dark ages of having literally nothing to be excited about. Abandoning your OG fans and aiming for something entirely different never works.

[leonmallett]

I honestly believe, given another 5-10 years, they could have turned Valiant into a true powerhouse.

I agree that given time Dinesh would have significantly grown the company. Who’d have realistically thought only a few years ago that there’d be a live action Bloodshot movie? If Dinesh can make that happen then how can we doubt the other possibilities.

He had 5 years though, didn't he?

You think 5 years is a long time to resurrect a company and make it a huge success???

Actually 13 years from acquisition, so arguably plenty of time. They maintained a self-imposed limit against growth of line, and their core audience wasn't grown from artificial gains from variants and number ones. So yeah, plenty of time.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I honestly believe, given another 5-10 years, they could have turned Valiant into a true powerhouse.

I agree that given time Dinesh would have significantly grown the company. Who’d have realistically thought only a few years ago that there’d be a live action Bloodshot movie? If Dinesh can make that happen then how can we doubt the other possibilities.

He had 5 years though, didn't he?

You think 5 years is a long time to resurrect a company and make it a huge success???

Actually 13 years from acquisition, so arguably plenty of time. They maintained a self-imposed limit against growth of line, and their core audience wasn't grown from artificial gains from variants and number ones. So yeah, plenty of time.

C’mon now, this is just silly. Think about the size of the task to unravel the legalities of the Valiant IP’s then launch a company in a packed market place, then grown your share competing against Disney and Warner companies!

[TheFerg714]

Actually 13 years from acquisition, so arguably plenty of time. They maintained a self-imposed limit against growth of line, and their core audience wasn't grown from artificial gains from variants and number ones. So yeah, plenty of time.

Reboot Valiant is literally the most successful, consistent, and high-quality superhero universe ever created in comics (outside of the Big 2 of course). It is so strange how willing you are to try and belittle their accomplishments.

[leonmallett]

Actually 13 years from acquisition, so arguably plenty of time. They maintained a self-imposed limit against growth of line, and their core audience wasn't grown from artificial gains from variants and number ones. So yeah, plenty of time.

Reboot Valiant is literally the most successful, consistent, and high-quality superhero universe ever created in comics (outside of the Big 2 of course). It is so strange how willing you are to try and belittle their accomplishments.

I think you misread me, whether intentionally or or not. My point re: time was that they had plenty. They had thirteen years, seven of those in publication.

I agree that they created a very strong offer, and I really enjoyed the line for the most part (nothing is perfect, and that holds for VEI under Dinesh, especially as appreciation of creative outputs are subjective), but they also chose to self-limit their number of titles - the latter would always have prevented them becoming the 'powerhouse' you felt they could become, and clearly time was something they had.

Despite their success, they also utilised a backwards-looking model around variants which no doubt helped artificially inflate sales on (already good) books. In all honesty I felt the gimmickry went too far during the Dinesh era when story content became a collector chase, again, creating self-limiting publication (something that has seemed to continue in another form at Bad Idea).

Do I think DMG have been better in charge? No, I don't. But that situation and opportunity for DMG was created by those who invested in the VALIANT IP back in 2005. Did Dinesh and company have time to create their vision - clearly yes, but they never managed to take the next step to become the powerhouse you mentioned. Do I think in a non-pandemic environment that the Bloodshot movie would have kickstarted growth? No, I don't, because there is little lasting evidence to support that hypothesis based on the relationship between Marvel comics sales and MCU ticket sales, setting aside the merits or failings of the movie itself.

I hope that clears things up for you regarding my views.

[TheFerg714]

I think you misread me, whether intentionally or or not. My point re: time was that they had plenty. They had thirteen years, seven of those in publication.

You're, whether intentionally or not, splitting hairs. It was approximately 5 years. 2013-2017, half of 2012, and arguably half of 2018.

I agree that they created a very strong offer, and I really enjoyed the line for the most part (nothing is perfect, and that holds for VEI under Dinesh, especially as appreciation of creative outputs are subjective), but they also chose to self-limit their number of titles - the latter would always have prevented them becoming the 'powerhouse' you felt they could become, and clearly time was something they had.

Powerhouse =/= publishing 50 titles per month. Marvel/DC's business model is slowly dying, and we can all see it happening in real time. Imo, they would do well to learn from Valiant's successes and significantly lower their number of titles per month. Honestly, 12-20 issues would be more than enough for Valiant to be considered a powerhouse in my eyes.

Despite their success, they also utilised a backwards-looking model around variants which no doubt helped artificially inflate sales on (already good) books. In all honesty I felt the gimmickry went too far during the Dinesh era when story content became a collector chase, again, creating self-limiting publication (something that has seemed to continue in another form at Bad Idea).

Who cares about the gimmicks when the overall quality of the stories is so good? Ngl I get kind of frustrated with Bad Idea haters, because it's not hard at all to get the books. You're honestly just whining if you care more about the dumb gimmicks than the story content. Projects like Legends of the Geomancer and Werewolf/Retirement Plan can be annoying, but it's hard to complain when the story quality is so high.

Do I think DMG have been better in charge? No, I don't. But that situation and opportunity for DMG was created by those who invested in the VALIANT IP back in 2005. Did Dinesh and company have time to create their vision - clearly yes, but they never managed to take the next step to become the powerhouse you mentioned. Do I think in a non-pandemic environment that the Bloodshot movie would have kickstarted growth? No, I don't, because there is little lasting evidence to support that hypothesis based on the relationship between Marvel comics sales and MCU ticket sales, setting aside the merits or failings of the movie itself.

I never claimed that the Bloodshot movie would translate to comic sales, but I do think it would have had some sort of effect. Valiant is a completely unknown entity, whereas everyone already know the characters of Marvel/DC. More importantly, Dan Mintz/DMG's actions were completely reprehensible, disgusting, and borderline evil. I will never understand why you feel the need to continually understate things. Any sane person would have left Dinesh and co. in charge.

[leonmallett]

I think you misread me, whether intentionally or or not. My point re: time was that they had plenty. They had thirteen years, seven of those in publication.

You're, whether intentionally or not, splitting hairs. It was approximately 5 years. 2013-2017, half of 2012, and arguably half of 2018.

And the seven years they had before the first book was published. Ergo, 13 years.

I agree that they created a very strong offer, and I really enjoyed the line for the most part (nothing is perfect, and that holds for VEI under Dinesh, especially as appreciation of creative outputs are subjective), but they also chose to self-limit their number of titles - the latter would always have prevented them becoming the 'powerhouse' you felt they could become, and clearly time was something they had.

Powerhouse =/= publishing 50 titles per month. Marvel/DC's business model is slowly dying, and we can all see it happening in real time. Imo, they would do well to learn from Valiant's successes and significantly lower their number of titles per month. Honestly, 12-20 issues would be more than enough for Valiant to be considered a powerhouse in my eyes.

I agree 12-20 would be a great number, and I would regard that as a powerful market share offer. The Dinesh era did not achieve that and intentionally limited their number of books, hence they prevented themselves taking that step.

Despite their success, they also utilised a backwards-looking model around variants which no doubt helped artificially inflate sales on (already good) books. In all honesty I felt the gimmickry went too far during the Dinesh era when story content became a collector chase, again, creating self-limiting publication (something that has seemed to continue in another form at Bad Idea).

Who cares about the gimmicks when the overall quality of the stories is so good? Ngl I get kind of frustrated with Bad Idea haters, because it's not hard at all to get the books. You're honestly just whining if you care more about the dumb gimmicks than the story content. Projects like Legends of the Geomancer and Werewolf/Retirement Plan can be annoying, but it's hard to complain when the story quality is so high.

Those projects are even trickier when different rules (more restrictive rules) were applied to international customers and fans. Sorry you feel that is 'whining'. The third time around of story content not making it to the UK on an equal footing as experienced by US customers and fans was my point of dropping VEI, which was under Dinesh's era.

As a UK customer I understand and accept higher prices due to customs and international shipping to UK comic shops. However, the ratio for LotG was worse for UK (and presumably all non-North America) than USA stores, meaning reduced opportunity for fans. It is harder to feel supportive of a company that values you less than another market. Why not simply utilise the same ratios? That was VEI's call. For me the outcome was to take a decision on a point of principle; three times I had seen the effects of differing international strategy on story content, creating a two tier fan opportunity - my view was that if VEI valued me less than an individual fan in the USA then i could not justify continuing to support them. I hope that explains things a little more.

If you feel I am 'whining' then I see no point in continued debate if you aren't going to be civil.

Do I think DMG have been better in charge? No, I don't. But that situation and opportunity for DMG was created by those who invested in the VALIANT IP back in 2005. Did Dinesh and company have time to create their vision - clearly yes, but they never managed to take the next step to become the powerhouse you mentioned. Do I think in a non-pandemic environment that the Bloodshot movie would have kickstarted growth? No, I don't, because there is little lasting evidence to support that hypothesis based on the relationship between Marvel comics sales and MCU ticket sales, setting aside the merits or failings of the movie itself.

I never claimed that the Bloodshot movie would translate to comic sales, but I do think it would have had some sort of effect. Valiant is a completely unknown entity, whereas everyone already know the characters of Marvel/DC. More importantly, Dan Mintz/DMG's actions were completely reprehensible, disgusting, and borderline evil. I will never understand why you feel the need to continually understate things. Any sane person would have left Dinesh and co. in charge.

I am not defending Mintz et al, and I won't. But like it or not, Dinesh signed the contract that enabled him to be ousted, and like it or not he produced a movie that has not been well received critically (albeit more favourably among its audience than among critics). It reminded me of early 90s fare starring the likes of Van Damme and Lungdren, and felt far from a flagship for a new movie universe.

To take your point re: Marvel, Iron Man was a b list character at the time, and will have had little recognition outside of comics fandom before 2008, and a certain era of grown up kids who watched cartoons, which won't support your point.

Do I think VEI would have been better under Dinesh's continued stewardship? I thought I made that clear that I do, but whether you like it or not, Dinesh engineered the situation that lead to his ousting by signing the contract that enabled to DMG to act as they did.