DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

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Which Valiant property has suffered the most damage by DMG hired creators?

Poll ended at Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:39:06 pm

Bloodshot
2
7%
Dr Mirage
0
No votes
Ninjak
1
3%
The Harbinger (Peter Stanchek)
4
13%
Punk Mambo
0
No votes
Rai
0
No votes
Savage
8
27%
Shadowman
0
No votes
XO
13
43%
Other (specify in the comments)
2
7%
There is no damage, DMG have aced it!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 30

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DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

2022 could be a new dawn for Valiant. There’s a new guy in charge of editorial and the creator choices made by previous editors have now been seen with the release of the Harbinger.

Most fans would agree the DMG era has been a car crash for the most part, but which characters have taken the most damage and why?

Let’s hear your views! It’s TWO VOTES!
Last edited by Dallow Spicer1 on Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:53:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

I voted XO and Savage as taking the most damage. XO continuity with Shanhara as a buddy cop style book is cringeworthy.

The Savage story picking up where it did missed a huge opportunity from where the first series left off (where Kevin arrived in the middle of London). That damage can’t be undone.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Chiclo »

It is so hard to choose. I went with Harbinger but this is a tight race to the bottom. XO was probably the right answer.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Chiclo wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:22:06 pm
It is so hard to choose. I went with Harbinger but this is a tight race to the bottom. XO was probably the right answer.
Yep, definitely a spoilt for choice scenario !

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by SwiftMann »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:45:22 pm
I voted XO and Savage as taking the most damage. XO continuity with Shanhara as a buddy cop style book is cringeworthy.

The Savage story picking up where it did missed a huge opportunity from where the first series left off (where Kevin arrived in the middle of London). That damage can’t be undone.
This.

Before I realized it was vote for 2, I was already debating how I would pick between X-O and Savage. I think I was going to land on Savage. X-O has so much history, the book can always bounce back from a crap 9 issue run. Savage was still character and world building.
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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

SwiftMann wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:35:38 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:45:22 pm
I voted XO and Savage as taking the most damage. XO continuity with Shanhara as a buddy cop style book is cringeworthy.

The Savage story picking up where it did missed a huge opportunity from where the first series left off (where Kevin arrived in the middle of London). That damage can’t be undone.
This.

Before I realized it was vote for 2, I was already debating how I would pick between X-O and Savage. I think I was going to land on Savage. X-O has so much history, the book can always bounce back from a crap 9 issue run. Savage was still character and world building.
Yeah, mind blowingly bad decision by the writer to skip over such a key moment after a very good series #1. Also, going from Larosa’s art to whoever did series #2 was super jarring! facepalm

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by nonplayer »

In my view it was back ages before dmg took over.
They started canceling titles, good titles.
After canceling xo and harbinger they came out with Scooby-Doo x Gen. For me that was the beginning of the end.
So I pick harbinger.
I Miss the good old days.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by armlessphelan »

I voted XO. I'm one of the people who was mostly okay with (but not loving) the DMG stuff when I read it, but this latest XO run was literally the worst Valiant book I've read since the relaunch. At least the first arc of Livewire's ongoing was readable.
Manga, comics, who cares? They're pretty much the same thing.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Oxmyx »

It's funny how no one has mentioned DMG's worst crime...destroying the Bloodshot movie's chances at establishing a Valiant Cinematic Universe with their machinations.

I forget all the different ways DMG messed up the glory that could have been, but the main one I think was the ending and removal of the appearance of Toyo Harada and implications for Harbingers as a thing.

Their "sale" of the Harbinger movie rights seems to me either a very petty move OR gross incompetence (and probably both), and as a petty move they really screwed themselves to get at Dinesh. I know, I know, maybe they were desperate for cash, and I see that, but dumb move if they want profits.

Which makes me wonder...does DMG want profits? I've heard of major corporations buying up smaller companies to run them into the ground so their profit losses somehow help balance the budget or provide the appearance of competition. Or could Marvel, anticipating the possible rise of a rival, have paid off DMG to hamstring Bloodshot? It is suspicious that the hamstringing was so last minute, after Harada had already been cast and filmmed. Certainly corporate spies had the opportunity to see what was going on. It wouldn't have taken too big a bribe to win over DMG.

So, anyway, I voted for 1) Bloodshot and 2) Other for Harada
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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by leonmallett »

Oxmyx wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:59:28 am
It's funny how no one has mentioned DMG's worst crime...destroying the Bloodshot movie's chances at establishing a Valiant Cinematic Universe with their machinations.

I forget all the different ways DMG messed up the glory that could have been, but the main one I think was the ending and removal of the appearance of Toyo Harada and implications for Harbingers as a thing.

Their "sale" of the Harbinger movie rights seems to me either a very petty move OR gross incompetence (and probably both), and as a petty move they really screwed themselves to get at Dinesh. I know, I know, maybe they were desperate for cash, and I see that, but dumb move if they want profits.

Which makes me wonder...does DMG want profits? I've heard of major corporations buying up smaller companies to run them into the ground so their profit losses somehow help balance the budget or provide the appearance of competition. Or could Marvel, anticipating the possible rise of a rival, have paid off DMG to hamstring Bloodshot? It is suspicious that the hamstringing was so last minute, after Harada had already been cast and filmmed. Certainly corporate spies had the opportunity to see what was going on. It wouldn't have taken too big a bribe to win over DMG.

So, anyway, I voted for 1) Bloodshot and 2) Other for Harada
In my opinion, one end credits scene would not have measurably improved the Bloodshot movie for the general audience - fans would have loved it and the plans they had sounded cool, but it would have lacked context without a companion movie. The Hulk and Iron Man end credits worked so well as they connected two movies released closely together, and laid a foundation of understandable interconnectivity for a non-comics audience.

The flaws of Bloodshot are very much on the screen, in the budget, in the script and in the direction for me (not to say that I didn't enjoy parts, I did, but it is a 2 out of 5 movie for me).

The good (for me):
Seeing pallid Bloodshot, albeit too briefly, near the end.
The revelation re: the mission cycle (up to that point using linear sequencing of the story had not made creative sense to me, that reveal landed well).
The falling down the building fight.
Guy Pearce and Eiza González's performances.
Lamorne Morris' accent choice was a pleasant surprise and for my ear was effective, and the character injected some needed humour.

The not so good (for me):
Vin Diesel; sorry but I think there are other action actors that could have been a better fit, and his name alone does not carry films (The Fast franchise is its own success story, most of his other recent non-Fast films have not done well). John Cena could have been great in the role for my money, but mileage will vary.
Overuse of slow motion.
Overall the film felt cheap, like a direct to DVD movie.

The bad (for me):
The script felt sub-par overall with a couple of high points.
Using South Africa(?) to stand in for London/UK looked cheap and could have been avoided by locating the action to the place of filming - number plates on vehicles being non-UK (we have yellow number plates at the rear), as well as the abundance of white stucco-rendered buildings and the quality of sunshine all placed that chase scene badly; the accents of most of the grunt baddies didn't help sustain the illusion either.
Not enough Bloodshot in his final overclocked form which is what fans wanted to see.
Direction which fared better in VFX than with people and characterisation.
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month

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Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Just seen some good news, looks like the current garbage (critically acclaimed ?!?) run of XO finishes at issue #9. 9 issues too many from this C list writer, hopefully the next writer can undo some of the damage. Hopefully Aric wakes up and the last 9 issues were a dream and Shanhara isn’t an annoyingly tedious, quipping side kick. :hope:

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

leonmallett wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:19:53 am

In my opinion, one end credits scene would not have measurably improved the Bloodshot movie for the general audience - fans would have loved it and the plans they had sounded cool, but it would have lacked context without a companion movie. The Hulk and Iron Man end credits worked so well as they connected two movies released closely together, and laid a foundation of understandable interconnectivity for a non-comics audience.

The flaws of Bloodshot are very much on the screen, in the budget, in the script and in the direction for me (not to say that I didn't enjoy parts, I did, but it is a 2 out of 5 movie for me).
Just re-watched Bloodshot and my opinion of it pretty much stayed the same. I thought it was decent, better than I expected and considering the budget I think they did a very solid job. Certainly it was better than some Marvel and DC efforts with much bigger budgets. Not perfect and yes I agree the South Africa supposing to be London was silly but no biggee in the overall picture.

The big crime was how unbelievably bad the DMG Bloodshot comic books were at the time (and since). Imagine how well Dinesh would have delivered on the publishing has he still been in charge.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by GammaJosh »

Has anything been as damaging or as baffling as 1) cutting off Justin Jordan's Shadowman run early, forcing him to jam 25 issues of story into about 11 issues, followed immediately by 2) setting up a ton of potentially great stuff with Peter Milligan only to pull the plug before the first story arc even finished, flush all his ideas down the toilet and, and finally 3) rush out End Times with substandard art and controversial-at-best story developments.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Juki »

I just don’t get the fact that DMG forced a takeover, while the Bloodshot movie was already in development (along with other supposed movies and tv series ), in order to “bring Valiant IPs to film” in a better way as only they could. The implication was that they forced the buyout because they had a plan, the means, the know how, the money, the muscle,and the connections to get things done in the cinematic world where Valiant was primed and destined to go. And, that is why they wanted Valiant so badly. Then boasted how interconnected and tight the Valiant Universe was while, at the same time, selling the rights to different filming companies (Sony and Paramount) splitting apart the IPs from connectivity and causing Harada to be removed from the Bloodshot movie finishing up. Then bragged that Bloodshot did enough in home rentals to continue (calling Bloodshot the “Blade” of the valiant film universe) while all other efforts at developing the IPs for film have obviously halted (X-O w/ Cena, EW w/ Bautista, A&A, Shadowman, Harbinger, Faith, Mirage tv series, etc). If DMG doesn’t want to continue to bring Valiant to film….then why did they force the buyout? Did they think the one Bloodshot movie being filmed, that they seemed to sabotage, would alone catapult Valiant into Marvel status? And since it didn’t did they just give up on Valiant? I always thought Valiant existed because it wasn’t Marvel.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by GammaJosh »

Juki wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:27:52 am
I just don’t get the fact that DMG forced a takeover, while the Bloodshot movie was already in development (along with other supposed movies and tv series ), in order to “bring Valiant IPs to film” in a better way as only they could. The implication was that they forced the buyout because they had a plan, the means, the know how, the money, the muscle,and the connections to get things done in the cinematic world where Valiant was primed and destined to go. And, that is why they wanted Valiant so badly. Then boasted how interconnected and tight the Valiant Universe was while, at the same time, selling the rights to different filming companies (Sony and Paramount) splitting apart the IPs from connectivity and causing Harada to be removed from the Bloodshot movie finishing up. Then bragged that Bloodshot did enough in home rentals to continue (calling Bloodshot the “Blade” of the valiant film universe) while all other efforts at developing the IPs for film have obviously halted (X-O w/ Cena, EW w/ Bautista, A&A, Shadowman, Harbinger, Faith, Mirage tv series, etc). If DMG doesn’t want to continue to bring Valiant to film….then why did they force the buyout? Did they think the one Bloodshot movie being filmed, that they seemed to sabotage, would alone catapult Valiant into Marvel status? And since it didn’t did they just give up on Valiant? I always thought Valiant existed because it wasn’t Marvel.
Kinda makes you wonder: if they had just left things alone, would their partial stake be more valuable than their full ownership is worth now?

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:24:08 am
Has anything been as damaging or as baffling as 1) cutting off Justin Jordan's Shadowman run early, forcing him to jam 25 issues of story into about 11 issues, followed immediately by 2) setting up a ton of potentially great stuff with Peter Milligan only to pull the plug before the first story arc even finished, flush all his ideas down the toilet and, and finally 3) rush out End Times with substandard art and controversial-at-best story developments.
Yeah those were all duds. Although I don’t think Jordan’s writing on Shadowman was particularly good and I seem to remember him admitting the style of writing he chose didn’t work out the way he’d hoped.

However, none of those touch DMG levels of bad and Valiant were still pumping out lots of great books at the same time. I’d say under Dinesh we had 90% great books and 10% of poor books eg anything by FVL, Dead Drop, Gen Zero etc

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:38:13 pm
Juki wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:27:52 am
I just don’t get the fact that DMG forced a takeover, while the Bloodshot movie was already in development (along with other supposed movies and tv series ), in order to “bring Valiant IPs to film” in a better way as only they could. The implication was that they forced the buyout because they had a plan, the means, the know how, the money, the muscle,and the connections to get things done in the cinematic world where Valiant was primed and destined to go. And, that is why they wanted Valiant so badly. Then boasted how interconnected and tight the Valiant Universe was while, at the same time, selling the rights to different filming companies (Sony and Paramount) splitting apart the IPs from connectivity and causing Harada to be removed from the Bloodshot movie finishing up. Then bragged that Bloodshot did enough in home rentals to continue (calling Bloodshot the “Blade” of the valiant film universe) while all other efforts at developing the IPs for film have obviously halted (X-O w/ Cena, EW w/ Bautista, A&A, Shadowman, Harbinger, Faith, Mirage tv series, etc). If DMG doesn’t want to continue to bring Valiant to film….then why did they force the buyout? Did they think the one Bloodshot movie being filmed, that they seemed to sabotage, would alone catapult Valiant into Marvel status? And since it didn’t did they just give up on Valiant? I always thought Valiant existed because it wasn’t Marvel.
Kinda makes you wonder: if they had just left things alone, would their partial stake be more valuable than their full ownership is worth now?
Great point, they should have left it alone and let the best hype man in the business (Dino) carry on with his vision.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Juki »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:42:05 pm
GammaJosh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:38:13 pm
Juki wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:27:52 am
I just don’t get the fact that DMG forced a takeover, while the Bloodshot movie was already in development (along with other supposed movies and tv series ), in order to “bring Valiant IPs to film” in a better way as only they could. The implication was that they forced the buyout because they had a plan, the means, the know how, the money, the muscle,and the connections to get things done in the cinematic world where Valiant was primed and destined to go. And, that is why they wanted Valiant so badly. Then boasted how interconnected and tight the Valiant Universe was while, at the same time, selling the rights to different filming companies (Sony and Paramount) splitting apart the IPs from connectivity and causing Harada to be removed from the Bloodshot movie finishing up. Then bragged that Bloodshot did enough in home rentals to continue (calling Bloodshot the “Blade” of the valiant film universe) while all other efforts at developing the IPs for film have obviously halted (X-O w/ Cena, EW w/ Bautista, A&A, Shadowman, Harbinger, Faith, Mirage tv series, etc). If DMG doesn’t want to continue to bring Valiant to film….then why did they force the buyout? Did they think the one Bloodshot movie being filmed, that they seemed to sabotage, would alone catapult Valiant into Marvel status? And since it didn’t did they just give up on Valiant? I always thought Valiant existed because it wasn’t Marvel.


Kinda makes you wonder: if they had just left things alone, would their partial stake be more valuable than their full ownership is worth now?
Great point, they should have left it alone and let the best hype man in the business (Dino) carry on with his vision.
It had to be a little frustrating and ,at times, embarrassing for Dinesh… the way he couldn’t get anything done at one point because DMG was trying to stall/delay everything so that deadlines would pass giving them the right to buy out and take control of VEL. I can specifically remember Dinesh responding awkwardly to one of my posts that said something like “When the heck is the Ninjak VS The Valiant Universe web series gonna actually come out? Quit teasing us.” Come to find out, Dinesh had pumped everyone up about the web series while DMG somehow forced a long delay before allowing it to be released. But, obviously he couldn’t publicly talk about the reason for the delays (DMG).

I could understand, but not agree with, the “business” side of things if DMG felt they had to take over because they had the money, vision, and know how to get things done right on the cinematic side. Especially if DMG thought Dinesh could not handle trying to launch the IPs. And they felt like they needed total creative control to make their investment work.

However, in hind sight, it appears that Dinesh did everything he could … and DMG just wanted him out. Why couldn’t they work together on things? What are the real reasons that they forced him out and then did nothing themselves? What would have happened if DMG stayed a silent minority partner? Sounds like a good book or movie to me. I hope it all comes out one day.
Last edited by Juki on Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:41:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DMG’s impact on Valiant characters so far!

Post by Juki »

Double post


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