ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

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GammaJosh
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

leonmallett wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:24:45 am
GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:49:00 pm
SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:32:45 pm
Accounting for KS's 5%, they are already over $33k and possibly already in the black. Possibly.
Amazon payment processing also takes just shy of 5%, and I noticed they are using BackerKit which I believe charges 20% for their backend campaign management. So the expenses are a little higher, but overall I still think this is going to be considered a success and get them in the black or close to it before they ever hit the direct and book markets.
Backerkit has a variety of pricing models, typically between 2% and 5%, with a potential $500 flat fee and a percentage of the BackerKit income. Having run three KS campaigns using BackerKit, it can easily add 25% to 50% of the total (tabletop miniature figurines sector for me, so a niche audience not unlike comics, so there may be some comparability). My current BK campaign is 2% of the campaign income, 5% of the BK income and no flat fee.

In my experience, loading the BK fees against the BK income more than against the campaign income has been the right decision.
Cool. I'll need to look into them again then. I remember their pricing models being much, much higher when I first heard about them and checked them out, but this was years ago. We ended up offering add-ons via the backer surveys and then manually invoicing for them via Paypal, which yielded a ton of extra sales, but took a ton of time handling the invoices. Perhaps it's time to reconsider!!!

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:58:50 am
leonmallett wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:24:45 am
GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:49:00 pm
SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:32:45 pm
Accounting for KS's 5%, they are already over $33k and possibly already in the black. Possibly.
Amazon payment processing also takes just shy of 5%, and I noticed they are using BackerKit which I believe charges 20% for their backend campaign management. So the expenses are a little higher, but overall I still think this is going to be considered a success and get them in the black or close to it before they ever hit the direct and book markets.
Backerkit has a variety of pricing models, typically between 2% and 5%, with a potential $500 flat fee and a percentage of the BackerKit income. Having run three KS campaigns using BackerKit, it can easily add 25% to 50% of the total (tabletop miniature figurines sector for me, so a niche audience not unlike comics, so there may be some comparability). My current BK campaign is 2% of the campaign income, 5% of the BK income and no flat fee.

In my experience, loading the BK fees against the BK income more than against the campaign income has been the right decision.
Cool. I'll need to look into them again then. I remember their pricing models being much, much higher when I first heard about them and checked them out, but this was years ago. We ended up offering add-ons via the backer surveys and then manually invoicing for them via Paypal, which yielded a ton of extra sales, but took a ton of time handling the invoices. Perhaps it's time to reconsider!!!
I have had a good experience with BK so far and would recommend them.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by grendeljd »

I backed it a few days ago - just got the basic hardcover edition, don’t need any glitzy extras. Here’s hoping it all works out. The lead time on this is quite long, hope they deliver on that.

I think this one would have done even better overall had they been able to attract more well known talent for it too.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

grendeljd wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:18:13 am
I backed it a few days ago - just got the basic hardcover edition, don’t need any glitzy extras. Here’s hoping it all works out. The lead time on this is quite long, hope they deliver on that.

I think this one would have done even better overall had they been able to attract more well known talent for it too.
My feeling is that they were trying to keep the budget down as much as possible since this is their first Kickstarter. If they end up tripling their goal, maybe they'll have more confidence in hiring some name creators for the next one. I think it's to everyone's benefit if this thing does really well!

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20:12 am
grendeljd wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:18:13 am
I backed it a few days ago - just got the basic hardcover edition, don’t need any glitzy extras. Here’s hoping it all works out. The lead time on this is quite long, hope they deliver on that.

I think this one would have done even better overall had they been able to attract more well known talent for it too.
My feeling is that they were trying to keep the budget down as much as possible since this is their first Kickstarter. If they end up tripling their goal, maybe they'll have more confidence in hiring some name creators for the next one. I think it's to everyone's benefit if this thing does really well!
Agreed on all points.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Juki »

I have only done a few kick starters (all with Josh and The Sound of Thunder) and have loved them as they all were completed. I really have not noticed and don’t know the rules….do they bill you right away? Or, do you get billed if/when it comes into fruition and the project is done. If the project doesn’t happen do you lose out on the money? Are the rules different for each kick starter project? Or are the rules set the same for them all? I’m just wondering about how it all works.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by grendeljd »

GammaJosh wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20:12 am
grendeljd wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:18:13 am
I backed it a few days ago - just got the basic hardcover edition, don’t need any glitzy extras. Here’s hoping it all works out. The lead time on this is quite long, hope they deliver on that.

I think this one would have done even better overall had they been able to attract more well known talent for it too.
My feeling is that they were trying to keep the budget down as much as possible since this is their first Kickstarter. If they end up tripling their goal, maybe they'll have more confidence in hiring some name creators for the next one. I think it's to everyone's benefit if this thing does really well!
For sure it is!
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by grendeljd »

Juki wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:55:12 pm
I have only done a few kick starters (all with Josh and The Sound of Thunder) and have loved them as they all were completed. I really have not noticed and don’t know the rules….do they bill you right away? Or, do you get billed if/when it comes into fruition and the project is done. If the project doesn’t happen do you lose out on the money? Are the rules different for each kick starter project? Or are the rules set the same for them all? I’m just wondering about how it all works.
You will always get billed on the date the KS campaign ends (or very shortly after), if it successfully surpasses its set goal.

I always just expect to lose my money if a given project is never completed, but I do believe there are ways to pursue getting a refund. I have also never backed a project that did not end up delivering on promised goods yet, and I’ve backed a little over 50 different projects on there (mostly comics, some games, some toys, and GammaJosh’s band!! :headbang: ).

Some of the things I’ve backed have taken quite a very long time to get produced though. Some people don’t have the patience for those kinds of things - I don’t worry about it too much, and it’s often a nice surprise when something shows up that did take a long time to get made. Probably the worst thing I backed for length of time to produce was the Robotech miniatures game by Palladium. I *think* that ended up taking a couple/few years!!
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

grendeljd wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:07:29 am
GammaJosh wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20:12 am
grendeljd wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:18:13 am
I backed it a few days ago - just got the basic hardcover edition, don’t need any glitzy extras. Here’s hoping it all works out. The lead time on this is quite long, hope they deliver on that.

I think this one would have done even better overall had they been able to attract more well known talent for it too.
My feeling is that they were trying to keep the budget down as much as possible since this is their first Kickstarter. If they end up tripling their goal, maybe they'll have more confidence in hiring some name creators for the next one. I think it's to everyone's benefit if this thing does really well!
For sure it is!
What if it does well financially but the content is poor? Would that deter fans for future efforts?

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:58:54 am
grendeljd wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:07:29 am
GammaJosh wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20:12 am
grendeljd wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:18:13 am
I backed it a few days ago - just got the basic hardcover edition, don’t need any glitzy extras. Here’s hoping it all works out. The lead time on this is quite long, hope they deliver on that.

I think this one would have done even better overall had they been able to attract more well known talent for it too.
My feeling is that they were trying to keep the budget down as much as possible since this is their first Kickstarter. If they end up tripling their goal, maybe they'll have more confidence in hiring some name creators for the next one. I think it's to everyone's benefit if this thing does really well!
For sure it is!
What if it does well financially but the content is poor? Would that deter fans for future efforts?
Did Dead Drop deter future VEI buying? Maybe for some, but a lot of content still followed.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Shadowman99 »

Scheduled to release this time next year: guess we're not getting any Eternal Warrior before then facepalm

Suppose I ought to be happy to see the character getting some pages at all given its success since the 2012 company relaunch. Great character but doesn't sell apparently :?

£25 quid plus postage to the UK, at least another £10/15 on top of that, so considering I'm not a high earner like some of you guys this is going to be a hard purchase for me. Love the character so I'd like to read the story, but if Valiant goes hard on publishing via this method I'm going to have to drop Valiant as an interest/past time.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

Shadowman99 wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:38:58 am
Scheduled to release this time next year: guess we're not getting any Eternal Warrior before then facepalm

Suppose I ought to be happy to see the character getting some pages at all given its success since the 2012 company relaunch. Great character but doesn't sell apparently :?

£25 quid plus postage to the UK, at least another £10/15 on top of that, so considering I'm not a high earner like some of you guys this is going to be a hard purchase for me. Love the character so I'd like to read the story, but if Valiant goes hard on publishing via this method I'm going to have to drop Valiant as an interest/past time.
I don't see the crowd-funding route replacing periodical publishing (although maybe it could be a model for funding arcs of books, but that is another thing). I think this is a toe in the water, not the entire publishing strategy for the future. The crowd funding model seems a really good fit for OGNs, but then there may be an issue of page size (being different to current Valiant hardcovers) and audience size. The page size issue may put off some, and the audience may just not be that big, but we shall see.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

Juki wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:55:12 pm
I have only done a few kick starters (all with Josh and The Sound of Thunder) and have loved them as they all were completed.
I had a feeling you were a scholar and a gentleman! Thank you, sir!
grendeljd wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:16:34 am
I always just expect to lose my money if a given project is never completed, but I do believe there are ways to pursue getting a refund. I have also never backed a project that did not end up delivering on promised goods yet, and I’ve backed a little over 50 different projects on there (mostly comics, some games, some toys, and GammaJosh’s band!! :headbang: ).
And thanks to you as well! I also have received the rewards for every single Kickstarter campaign I've ever backed. Assuming you won't get your stuff may be a bit extreme at this point. There are horror stories out there, sure, but I think in general most campaigns are likely to deliver. I don't know the best mental approach to prepare yourself for potentially losing your money with no recourse, but at this point I just don't worry about it too much.
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:58:54 am
What if it does well financially but the content is poor? Would that deter fans for future efforts?
Yeah, I think it certainly could. But on the flipside, if this campaign does really well, I'd hope Valiant would be emboldened to attach some bigger name creators to future Kickstarter projects, which would probably increase consumer confidence in the quality of the end product.
Shadowman99 wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:38:58 am
£25 quid plus postage to the UK, at least another £10/15 on top of that, so considering I'm not a high earner like some of you guys this is going to be a hard purchase for me. Love the character so I'd like to read the story, but if Valiant goes hard on publishing via this method I'm going to have to drop Valiant as an interest/past time.
I noticed they said the deluxe hardcover is a Kickstarter exclusive, but did not say that for all editions. I'd expect this book to hit the usual direct and book market distributors eventually. Maybe there'll be a trade paperback option for you.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

I noticed the campaign has hit the dreaded wall where new pledges slow to a trickle. It's at $43,000+ right now, which is where it was yesterday. They should easily sail past $50k with the surge in the final days. Hopefully they have some promotional tricks up their sleeve for the slog in the middle!
Last edited by GammaJosh on Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:20:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:05:13 am
I noticed the campaign has hit the dreaded wall where new pledges slow to a trickle. It's at $43,000+ right now, which is where it was yesterday. They should easily sale past $50k with the surge in the final days. Hopefully they have some promotional tricks up their sleeve for the slog in the middle!
I think we are in for two and half weeks of small peaks and troughs unless they unlock some extra paid add on content, pretty normal (and the reason why I won't ever do a 30-day campaign again!); I agree that the final weekend should see an uptick.

EDIT: I also think this will be a learning experience for VEI for future possible campaigns.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by nonplayer »

For a company with a horrible track record I find it ridiculous they would do a fund me for a comic book. They don't even wanna back their own stories Aand that doesn't bode well for me.
I can't back this it would be unethical for me to back a product that previous example has told me won't be good.
Maybe they can focus on releasing some good comics before asking for money.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

nonplayer wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:49:35 pm
For a company with a horrible track record I find it ridiculous they would do a fund me for a comic book. They don't even wanna back their own stories Aand that doesn't bode well for me.
I can't back this it would be unethical for me to back a product that previous example has told me won't be good.
Maybe they can focus on releasing some good comics before asking for money.
That seems fair. But this Kickstarter mechanism is why you're getting a new Eternal Warrior story. If you read it later, and you like it, keep that in mind when they run the next Kickstarter. I think Valiant publishing is insignificant to the ownership's greater concerns of getting multimedia and licensing going. I'm happy with whatever mechanism gets more stories published.

Also, if you've never backed a Kickstarter campaign, just do yourself a favor and back one for something that looks cool to you. It can be quite rewarding. You have the power to make these projects happen.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by The Chosen 1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:57:53 pm
nonplayer wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:49:35 pm
For a company with a horrible track record I find it ridiculous they would do a fund me for a comic book. They don't even wanna back their own stories Aand that doesn't bode well for me.
I can't back this it would be unethical for me to back a product that previous example has told me won't be good.
Maybe they can focus on releasing some good comics before asking for money.
That seems fair. But this Kickstarter mechanism is why you're getting a new Eternal Warrior story. If you read it later, and you like it, keep that in mind when they run the next Kickstarter. I think Valiant publishing is insignificant to the ownership's greater concerns of getting multimedia and licensing going. I'm happy with whatever mechanism gets more stories published.

Also, if you've never backed a Kickstarter campaign, just do yourself a favor and back one for something that looks cool to you. It can be quite rewarding. You have the power to make these projects happen.
I've never backed a kickstarter, but have a basic understanding. But if i back a project and it never eventuates, have a lost my cash? What happens to all the money that's been pledged and received by the project? Is it just tough luck?

I think i'll probably pledge towards to $35 and get a hard cover. From what i've read, the majority of projects see production.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

The Chosen 1 wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:49:27 pm
GammaJosh wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:57:53 pm
nonplayer wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:49:35 pm
For a company with a horrible track record I find it ridiculous they would do a fund me for a comic book. They don't even wanna back their own stories Aand that doesn't bode well for me.
I can't back this it would be unethical for me to back a product that previous example has told me won't be good.
Maybe they can focus on releasing some good comics before asking for money.
That seems fair. But this Kickstarter mechanism is why you're getting a new Eternal Warrior story. If you read it later, and you like it, keep that in mind when they run the next Kickstarter. I think Valiant publishing is insignificant to the ownership's greater concerns of getting multimedia and licensing going. I'm happy with whatever mechanism gets more stories published.

Also, if you've never backed a Kickstarter campaign, just do yourself a favor and back one for something that looks cool to you. It can be quite rewarding. You have the power to make these projects happen.
I've never backed a kickstarter, but have a basic understanding. But if i back a project and it never eventuates, have a lost my cash? What happens to all the money that's been pledged and received by the project? Is it just tough luck?

I think i'll probably pledge towards to $35 and get a hard cover. From what i've read, the majority of projects see production.
If a project fails, some projects refund some don't. Roughly 9 to 10% of upfront costs are stripped out by KS and Stripe, so that would not be available for refund. Likewise a creator may want to recoup development costs (not talking VEI here, just generally), so even if a project fails, the refund pot will likely be smaller than the funding pot.

That said, if VEI estimated their costs accurately, this should be successful - they have their funding amount and so far their stretch goals do not add significant cost to them, which gives me confidence.
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

nonplayer wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:49:35 pm
For a company with a horrible track record I find it ridiculous they would do a fund me for a comic book. They don't even wanna back their own stories Aand that doesn't bode well for me.
As gammajosh notes above, this may be that the publishing arm has limited available capital, and this is their solution to get back on top.

I can't back this it would be unethical for me to back a product that previous example has told me won't be good.
Maybe they can focus on releasing some good comics before asking for money.
I am going to guess that the flipside of the argument is also true, that they have produced products you have enjoyed? If you have not enjoyed any of their output, of course it makes sense not to back them.
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month

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leonmallett
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

One of my immediate takes is that VEI have not yet realised that Kickstarter is also an experience as well as a product development vehicle, and that they would do well to invest more time in updates and engagement in the comments section. It isn't a passive thing where a product is released into the wild, the backers are part of the journey of success and engagement and it is important to ensure they feel invested in every sense.

I hope they learn as they go and recognise this. :)

This opinion is based on running five successful Kickstarter campaigns.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

leonmallett wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:37:31 am
One of my immediate takes is that VEI have not yet realised that Kickstarter is also an experience as well as a product development vehicle, and that they would do well to invest more time in updates and engagement in the comments section. It isn't a passive thing where a product is released into the wild, the backers are part of the journey of success and engagement and it is important to ensure they feel invested in every sense.

I hope they learn as they go and recognise this. :)

This opinion is based on running five successful Kickstarter campaigns.
I've had some contact with them and I think the people running the campaign are aware of this, but there's an approval chain above them that is possibly slowing them down or holding them back from being a little more light on their feet and personable.

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leonmallett
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Location: hunting down paulsmith56 somewhere in the balti belt...
Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:45:39 am
leonmallett wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:37:31 am
One of my immediate takes is that VEI have not yet realised that Kickstarter is also an experience as well as a product development vehicle, and that they would do well to invest more time in updates and engagement in the comments section. It isn't a passive thing where a product is released into the wild, the backers are part of the journey of success and engagement and it is important to ensure they feel invested in every sense.

I hope they learn as they go and recognise this. :)

This opinion is based on running five successful Kickstarter campaigns.
I've had some contact with them and I think the people running the campaign are aware of this, but there's an approval chain above them that is possibly slowing them down or holding them back from being a little more light on their feet and personable.
I hope they take on board any feedback you and the guys running the campaign have been able to give.

Even building a volume of comments by replying to stuff helps. :)
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

GammaJosh wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:05:13 am
I noticed the campaign has hit the dreaded wall where new pledges slow to a trickle. It's at $43,000+ right now, which is where it was yesterday. They should easily sail past $50k with the surge in the final days. Hopefully they have some promotional tricks up their sleeve for the slog in the middle!
Less than 24 hours left on the campaign now. As of this writing it's sitting at $52,900+ over a goal of $25,000. Seems like a decent showing overall for a first campaign, but it also seems to be underperforming a bit in the final days.

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leonmallett
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Location: hunting down paulsmith56 somewhere in the balti belt...
Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:22:33 pm
GammaJosh wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:05:13 am
I noticed the campaign has hit the dreaded wall where new pledges slow to a trickle. It's at $43,000+ right now, which is where it was yesterday. They should easily sail past $50k with the surge in the final days. Hopefully they have some promotional tricks up their sleeve for the slog in the middle!
Less than 24 hours left on the campaign now. As of this writing it's sitting at $52,900+ over a goal of $25,000. Seems like a decent showing overall for a first campaign, but it also seems to be underperforming a bit in the final days.
I agree; I feel as a veteran backer and manager of campaigns that engagement has been one big shortfall from the VEI team on this campaign, but I am glad the have exceeded their goal (I just feel it could have gone further with a better, more agile, model of campaign engagement with backers and potential backers).

The second shortfall has been no additional printed books/comics content as paid for stretch goals.
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month


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