ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by dornwolf »

It’ll be interesting to see how this goes. Depending on price I might sign up. Mind you I don’t know of any successful comic book kickstarts they never seem to happen. While I never chipped in for I’m still waiting to see the Battlechasers one come to fruition.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

dornwolf wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:11:58 am
It’ll be interesting to see how this goes. Depending on price I might sign up. Mind you I don’t know of any successful comic book kickstarts they never seem to happen. While I never chipped in for I’m still waiting to see the Battlechasers one come to fruition.
In my experience the majority of comics KS' do deliver, albeit maybe not on time; I suspect BattleChasers is down to Madueira's work ethic.

If VEI operate in the mode of IDW and their BZRKR project, I expect fulfilment will go pretty well.

I am very tempted to back this.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

BOOM!

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by SwiftMann »

leonmallett wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:09:15 am
dornwolf wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:11:58 am
It’ll be interesting to see how this goes. Depending on price I might sign up. Mind you I don’t know of any successful comic book kickstarts they never seem to happen. While I never chipped in for I’m still waiting to see the Battlechasers one come to fruition.
In my experience the majority of comics KS' do deliver, albeit maybe not on time; I suspect BattleChasers is down to Madueira's work ethic.

If VEI operate in the mode of IDW and their BZRKR project, I expect fulfilment will go pretty well.

I am very tempted to back this.
You understood this post?

72 comic projects backed. Only 3 haven't delivered.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:31:16 pm
leonmallett wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:09:15 am
dornwolf wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:11:58 am
It’ll be interesting to see how this goes. Depending on price I might sign up. Mind you I don’t know of any successful comic book kickstarts they never seem to happen. While I never chipped in for I’m still waiting to see the Battlechasers one come to fruition.
In my experience the majority of comics KS' do deliver, albeit maybe not on time; I suspect BattleChasers is down to Madueira's work ethic.

If VEI operate in the mode of IDW and their BZRKR project, I expect fulfilment will go pretty well.

I am very tempted to back this.
You understood this post?

72 comic projects backed. Only 3 haven't delivered.
Yeah, really only a small few that haven't delivered as promised; only one for me is Liefeld's Brigade Returns, which is now 8 years later for me and seemingly many other backers.

The art for Scorched Earth looks good; despite leaving VEI for my previously stated reasons, I am tempted back in for hardcover collections and OGNs.

I hope the project is a success. :)
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by SwiftMann »

leonmallett wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:58:07 am
SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:31:16 pm
leonmallett wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:09:15 am
dornwolf wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:11:58 am
It’ll be interesting to see how this goes. Depending on price I might sign up. Mind you I don’t know of any successful comic book kickstarts they never seem to happen. While I never chipped in for I’m still waiting to see the Battlechasers one come to fruition.
In my experience the majority of comics KS' do deliver, albeit maybe not on time; I suspect BattleChasers is down to Madueira's work ethic.

If VEI operate in the mode of IDW and their BZRKR project, I expect fulfilment will go pretty well.

I am very tempted to back this.
You understood this post?

72 comic projects backed. Only 3 haven't delivered.
Yeah, really only a small few that haven't delivered as promised; only one for me is Liefeld's Brigade Returns, which is now 8 years later for me and seemingly many other backers.

The art for Scorched Earth looks good; despite leaving VEI for my previously stated reasons, I am tempted back in for hardcover collections and OGNs.

I hope the project is a success. :)
Ha! I've seen your comments in the Brigade KS. I've been waiting (and yelling) too.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Coffee »

The Kickstarter campaign is live! I'm in for the $35 tier. It looks cool. Here's hoping it delivers.
Last edited by Coffee on Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:28:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

My main reservation is that the creators are unknowns, given DMG’s horrific track record it seems like a big risk. :?

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by TheFerg714 »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:36:32 pm
My main reservation is that the creators are unknowns, given DMG’s horrific track record it seems like a big risk. :?
EXACTLY! I do not understand how they've made $15k already. DMG has proven themselves to be an incompetent publisher, and the creators have zero experience. Why would anyone pay money for this *SQUEE*?

That said, I'm considering the $15 digital-only option. Still feels a bit pricey though.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

TheFerg714 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:09:56 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:36:32 pm
My main reservation is that the creators are unknowns, given DMG’s horrific track record it seems like a big risk. :?
EXACTLY! I do not understand how they've made $15k already. DMG has proven themselves to be an incompetent publisher, and the creators have zero experience. Why would anyone pay money for this *SQUEE*?

That said, I'm considering the $15 digital-only option. Still feels a bit pricey though.
How do kickstarters even work…can you buy the book after it’s released when the reviews are in?

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by mateo107 »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:16:23 pm
How do kickstarters even work…can you buy the book after it’s released when the reviews are in?
It all depends on the publisher, some projects are only available through the Kickstarter, but since they're marketing this as a Kickstarter exclusive edition it sounds like they plan to release another edition later.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

mateo107 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:23:31 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:16:23 pm
How do kickstarters even work…can you buy the book after it’s released when the reviews are in?
It all depends on the publisher, some projects are only available through the Kickstarter, but since they're marketing this as a Kickstarter exclusive edition it sounds like they plan to release another edition later.
:thumb: Cheers

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Coffee »

Funded already! :o

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

nycjadie wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:39:33 pm
The Kickstarter thing is bizarre...
As of this writing, they have raised $26,187 from 196 backers. Zero of the multi-copy "retailer packs" have sold, so it's a safe bet they have sold about 196 copies (one per backer), give or take a few add-on copies. That's an average of $133 per backer, or roughly $133 per copy sold. How much do you think they would make per copy sold via Diamond? Maybe 40% of a $39.99 retail price, so about $16 per copy ? Now do you see why they're doing a Kickstarter? Even if they were the biggest publisher in the world, this is good business. It's 2021. We have the internet. Sell as many copies as possible directly to your customer, and let the distributors have the leftovers. I love it!

I hope this is a successful model for Valiant and it leads to increased publishing output. Maybe this is the cure for two issues per month.

[p.s.: I've been away for months, this is literally the first thread I've looked at, and I immediately see "Let's Go Brandon". I appreciate your withdrawal, Dallow, but this is exactly what people mean when they say this board is toxic. I'm not coming in here and referencing whatever the leftie equivalent of "Let's Go Brandon" is, but I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I did. No need to reply. I'm not trying to start a fresh argument. Just consider this one more vote for leaving this a politics-free, comics-focused zone.]

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Is $26k considered a kickstarter success or have they set a low bar compared to other kickstarters? What do people think they’ll hit eventually, $50k? $100k?

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:30:20 pm
nycjadie wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:39:33 pm
The Kickstarter thing is bizarre...
As of this writing, they have raised $26,187 from 196 backers. Zero of the multi-copy "retailer packs" have sold, so it's a safe bet they have sold about 196 copies (one per backer), give or take a few add-on copies. That's an average of $133 per backer, or roughly $133 per copy sold. How much do you think they would make per copy sold via Diamond? Maybe 40% of a $39.99 retail price, so about $16 per copy ? Now do you see why they're doing a Kickstarter? Even if they were the biggest publisher in the world, this is good business. It's 2021. We have the internet. Sell as many copies as possible directly to your customer, and let the distributors have the leftovers. I love it!

I hope this is a successful model for Valiant and it leads to increased publishing output. Maybe this is the cure for two issues per month.

[p.s.: I've been away for months, this is literally the first thread I've looked at, and I immediately see "Let's Go Brandon". I appreciate your withdrawal, Dallow, but this is exactly what people mean when they say this board is toxic. I'm not coming in here and referencing whatever the leftie equivalent of "Let's Go Brandon" is, but I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I did. No need to reply. I'm not trying to start a fresh argument. Just consider this one more vote for leaving this a politics-free, comics-focused zone.]
Really good summary of why the KS platform is a good fit for this project. I would add that the KS route is really best suited to irregular publishing (e.g. not periodical publishing), like OGNs.

What I can see is that for some retailers with a strong history of getting strongly behind modern Valiant, this may leave them a little cold, but that is not a criticism of the decision to go this route - clearly Valiant felt it necessary for whatever reasons.

Not offering the non-Raze's Flame book as a set of 6 for retailers seems odd.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:51:07 am
Is $26k considered a kickstarter success or have they set a low bar compared to other kickstarters? What do people think they’ll hit eventually, $50k? $100k?
I suppose it depends on the production costs for each individual project. In this case they're saying it's a 100-page plus graphic novel, so if you figure a bare minimum page rate of, I dunno, $250 for script, art, colors, and lettering (and that page rate would really be scraping the bottom of acceptable rates), that's $25,000 right there just for the creative portion, not including editorial man hours, printing, and any other costs.

I assume this book will have direct market and book market releases, so the Kickstarter is really just getting a higher profit margin on these initial sales to cover a chunk of the costs, allowing them to be less in the red (or hopefully not in the red at all) before the book gets a regular release.

I'd say under the circumstances, compared to the economics of doing a book release through the traditional method, this has to be seen as a comparative success.

For my band's campaigns, usually you can use the first 5-7 days as a measure and figure you're going to get 50% in that period, and the other 50% throughout the rest of the campaign, with a real slow down in the middle, and a surge in the last couple of days. So right now I'd say they are on track to surpass $50,000 at least.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:24:06 am
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:51:07 am
Is $26k considered a kickstarter success or have they set a low bar compared to other kickstarters? What do people think they’ll hit eventually, $50k? $100k?
I suppose it depends on the production costs for each individual project. In this case they're saying it's a 100-page plus graphic novel, so if you figure a bare minimum page rate of, I dunno, $250 for script, art, colors, and lettering (and that page rate would really be scraping the bottom of acceptable rates), that's $25,000 right there just for the creative portion, not including editorial man hours, printing, and any other costs.

I assume this book will have direct market and book market releases, so the Kickstarter is really just getting a higher profit margin on these initial sales to cover a chunk of the costs, allowing them to be less in the red (or hopefully not in the red at all) before the book gets a regular release.

I'd say under the circumstances, compared to the economics of doing a book release through the traditional method, this has to be seen as a comparative success.

For my band's campaigns, usually you can use the first 5-7 days as a measure and figure you're going to get 50% in that period, and the other 50% throughout the rest of the campaign, with a real slow down in the middle, and a surge in the last couple of days. So right now I'd say they are on track to surpass $50,000 at least.
Interesting on the numbers.

Dinesh said on Twitter that they’re were interested in Kickstarter when he was at Valiant but they didn’t figure out how best to use it.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:39:16 am

Dinesh said on Twitter that they’re were interested in Kickstarter when he was at Valiant but they didn’t figure out how best to use it.
There was much more of a stigma about KIckstarter looking like begging back then. Not as many people understood it and fewer had used it. Getting my band's Kickstarter for the Shadowman album approved was a *huge* deal at the time. They were very concerned about how it would look, and it took lots of back and forth to get it done. But a few years makes a big difference, and most people are much more accepting of it now. It's really just a way to get people hyped for a pre-order. The all-or-nothing aspect, and limited time period with days counting down towards the end really create a sense of urgency that just isn't there with regular pre-orders. And of course if it fails, that's a pretty good indication that you shouldn't bother making the product to begin with, and that's probably nice to know before you go to all the expense of making it!

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:07:00 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:39:16 am

Dinesh said on Twitter that they’re were interested in Kickstarter when he was at Valiant but they didn’t figure out how best to use it.
There was much more of a stigma about KIckstarter looking like begging back then. Not as many people understood it and fewer had used it. Getting my band's Kickstarter for the Shadowman album approved was a *huge* deal at the time. They were very concerned about how it would look, and it took lots of back and forth to get it done. But a few years makes a big difference, and most people are much more accepting of it now. It's really just a way to get people hyped for a pre-order. The all-or-nothing aspect, and limited time period with days counting down towards the end really create a sense of urgency that just isn't there with regular pre-orders. And of course if it fails, that's a pretty good indication that you shouldn't bother making the product to begin with, and that's probably nice to know before you go to all the expense of making it!
Wait, you’re that band ‘sound of thunder’?? :o :o :o …well I never knew that! :thumb:

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:15:34 pm
Wait, you’re that band ‘sound of thunder’?? :o :o :o …well I never knew that! :thumb:
Yep, I'm a metal guitarist. Now you know why I'm such a mouthy *SQUEE*!

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:38:34 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:15:34 pm
Wait, you’re that band ‘sound of thunder’?? :o :o :o …well I never knew that! :thumb:
Yep, I'm a metal guitarist. Now you know why I'm such a mouthy *SQUEE*!
Explains a lot :lol:

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by SwiftMann »

Already at $34,949 and 290 backers.

Adding up the individual tiers it's $32,925 from 385 backers, so not quite in sync. A breakdown of those numbers:

The top two tiers account for 63.33% of the money. That's from just 24, or 8%, of the backers. This is why you do a KS. Throw something ridiculous out there like "be in the comic" or "here's a million easy cheap (for the company) extras" and the big bucks move.

The rest of us in the digital (which is too expensive), regular, and Flame (also overpriced) editions account for 36.63% of the money but come from 91% of the backers.

The first stretch goal (digital copy of Pak's EW) costs them almost nothing besides dropbox hosting for a month and it's likely not lighting up the digital platforms, so they aren't losing sales on it. The next one being extra pages is a standard KS stretch that they always accounted for from the start along with most of the next few stretch goals. Accounting for KS's 5%, they are already over $33k and possibly already in the black. Possibly.

This is going to be deemed successful by pretty much all accounts. Pending actually delivering the product and delivering it timely and well-packaged. The fact that they are indicating an "Estimated Delivery: November, 2022" is likely being overlooked by most. Eleven months is too long a time between KS completion/funding and delivery for a comic project, especially if they do another before delivery. That starts feeling like a ponzi scheme.
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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by GammaJosh »

SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:32:45 pm
Accounting for KS's 5%, they are already over $33k and possibly already in the black. Possibly.
Amazon payment processing also takes just shy of 5%, and I noticed they are using BackerKit which I believe charges 20% for their backend campaign management. So the expenses are a little higher, but overall I still think this is going to be considered a success and get them in the black or close to it before they ever hit the direct and book markets.

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Re: ETERNAL WARRIOR: SCORCHED EARTH

Post by leonmallett »

GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:49:00 pm
SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:32:45 pm
Accounting for KS's 5%, they are already over $33k and possibly already in the black. Possibly.
Amazon payment processing also takes just shy of 5%, and I noticed they are using BackerKit which I believe charges 20% for their backend campaign management. So the expenses are a little higher, but overall I still think this is going to be considered a success and get them in the black or close to it before they ever hit the direct and book markets.
Backerkit has a variety of pricing models, typically between 2% and 5%, with a potential $500 flat fee and a percentage of the BackerKit income. Having run three KS campaigns using BackerKit, it can easily add 25% to 50% of the total (tabletop miniature figurines sector for me, so a niche audience not unlike comics, so there may be some comparability). My current BK campaign is 2% of the campaign income, 5% of the BK income and no flat fee.

In my experience, loading the BK fees against the BK income more than against the campaign income has been the right decision.
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month


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