Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

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Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

Specifically in Unity Chapter Nine (Solar 12), in year 3002 Solar is seen on the news being heroic preventing a satellite from crashing.

And, again specifically, in Rai Zero, in about year 2062, Solar has to let Gail die and has his mental breakdown and splits in two from the grief and the one that stays in our reality is described as going into seclusion, and never seen 2060s until 4001.

My understanding is that Shooter was directly involved in both of these, so I can't just blame it on sloppy editors who inherent a mythos.

The easiest explanation I see is that when Rai Zero says "elsewhere" the Geomancer narrator is simplifying things for the sake of practical information relay. Perhaps "elsewhere" was a mountainside in about the 3010s (or later) rather than what I assume.

Has this been brought up before? As I was reading VH1 Unity I've been trying to place Erica throughout the VU history as laid out in Rai Zero. Thoughts? Other than that I am taking this way too serious?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by greg »

Well, if you want to get creative in the explanation, Rai #0 says he didn't "surface again" until 4001 and stopping a satellite in space has nothing to do with the "surface". :lol:

Another explanation could be that the video screens showing him during Unity were specific to Erica's monitoring of Solar and everyone else on Earth outside of the Lost Land didn't know anything about him.

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:23:49 pm Another explanation could be that the video screens showing him during Unity were specific to Erica's monitoring of Solar and everyone else on Earth outside of the Lost Land didn't know anything about him.
I wasn't referring to Erica's screens. It was on the TV in the bar Albert was in, in 3002, and a bubbly girl was saying she just loves Solar (suggesting Solar was widely known)
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by greg »

Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07:12 pm
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:23:49 pm Another explanation could be that the video screens showing him during Unity were specific to Erica's monitoring of Solar and everyone else on Earth outside of the Lost Land didn't know anything about him.
I wasn't referring to Erica's screens. It was on the TV in the bar Albert was in, in 3002, and a bubbly girl was saying she just loves Solar (suggesting Solar was widely known)
Right, but all of that happens in Erica's world --- separated from reality. Everyone in the Lost Land could know Solar (because of Erica's obsession), but regular Earth people have no idea.

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:47:32 pm
Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07:12 pm
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:23:49 pm Another explanation could be that the video screens showing him during Unity were specific to Erica's monitoring of Solar and everyone else on Earth outside of the Lost Land didn't know anything about him.
I wasn't referring to Erica's screens. It was on the TV in the bar Albert was in, in 3002, and a bubbly girl was saying she just loves Solar (suggesting Solar was widely known)
Right, but all of that happens in Erica's world --- separated from reality. Everyone in the Lost Land could know Solar (because of Erica's obsession), but regular Earth people have no idea.
I'm not talking about the Speakeasy, I'm talking about a Charlottesville VA bar in 3002. Unless you are saying the 3002 Charlottesville is a divergent reality somehow. Which I disagree with
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by greg »

Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:34:29 pm
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:47:32 pm
Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07:12 pm
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:23:49 pm Another explanation could be that the video screens showing him during Unity were specific to Erica's monitoring of Solar and everyone else on Earth outside of the Lost Land didn't know anything about him.
I wasn't referring to Erica's screens. It was on the TV in the bar Albert was in, in 3002, and a bubbly girl was saying she just loves Solar (suggesting Solar was widely known)
Right, but all of that happens in Erica's world --- separated from reality. Everyone in the Lost Land could know Solar (because of Erica's obsession), but regular Earth people have no idea.
I'm not talking about the Speakeasy, I'm talking about a Charlottesville VA bar in 3002. Unless you are saying the 3002 Charlottesville is a divergent reality somehow. Which I disagree with
OK, I was reading the 3002 panels as being part of the Speakeasy. People of Earth in 3002 know who Solar is.

No explanation now, except that Rai #0 is post-Unity, post-Shooter and therefore junk.

Except...

Magnus #6 established that no one has seen Solar in OVER a thousand years, and it's 4001 AD, so Jim Shooter was the one who got it wrong... in Solar #12.

:o

Rai #0 matches Magnus #6 continuity.

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:26:43 pm Except...

Magnus #6 established that no one has seen Solar in OVER a thousand years, and it's 4001 AD, so Jim Shooter was the one who got it wrong... in Solar #12.
And what does Solar say in the very next panel?

VH-1's Solar is the role model for social distancing.

(And he only repaired that satellite so he could keep observing Erica.)

Jim Shooter got it all right.

I thought we had an understanding not to question the godfather?!? What's wrong with you, guys??? :lol:

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by greg »

Sunlight on Snow wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:03:24 am
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:26:43 pm Except...

Magnus #6 established that no one has seen Solar in OVER a thousand years, and it's 4001 AD, so Jim Shooter was the one who got it wrong... in Solar #12.
And what does Solar say in the very next panel?

VH-1's Solar is the role model for social distancing.

(And he only repaired that satellite so he could keep observing Erica.)

Jim Shooter got it all right.

I thought we had an understanding not to question the godfather?!? What's wrong with you, guys??? :lol:
But, if he was SEEN in 3002 then "Solar hasn't been SEEN in over a thousand years" is a lie in 4001... unless... sometime between 3002 and 4001, the recalculations of the birth of Christ moved the years back 4 to 6 years (since Christ is now believed to have been born around 4 B.C. to 6 B.C.), putting an extra 4 to 6 years between 3002 and 4001, and making it "over a thousand years" since 3002.

Anticipating the future correction of the "A.D." for Magnus Robot Fighter 4000 A.D.? What forethought! That's just good writin'. :thumb:

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

greg wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:39:53 am
Sunlight on Snow wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:03:24 am
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:26:43 pm Except...

Magnus #6 established that no one has seen Solar in OVER a thousand years, and it's 4001 AD, so Jim Shooter was the one who got it wrong... in Solar #12.
And what does Solar say in the very next panel?

VH-1's Solar is the role model for social distancing.

(And he only repaired that satellite so he could keep observing Erica.)

Jim Shooter got it all right.

I thought we had an understanding not to question the godfather?!? What's wrong with you, guys??? :lol:
But, if he was SEEN in 3002 then "Solar hasn't been SEEN in over a thousand years" is a lie in 4001... unless... sometime between 3002 and 4001, the recalculations of the birth of Christ moved the years back 4 to 6 years (since Christ is now believed to have been born around 4 B.C. to 6 B.C.), putting an extra 4 to 6 years between 3002 and 4001, and making it "over a thousand years" since 3002.

Anticipating the future correction of the "A.D." for Magnus Robot Fighter 4000 A.D.? What forethought! That's just good writin'. :thumb:
:high-five:

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by magnusr »

Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:34:29 pmUnless you are saying the 3002 Charlottesville is a divergent reality somehow. Which I disagree with
Gotta look through this again. The realities of Unity is a bit of a headache.
greg wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:39:53 amAnticipating the future correction of the "A.D." for Magnus Robot Fighter 4000 A.D.? What forethought! That's just good writin'. :thumb:
:thumb:

/Magnus

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

magnusr wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:43:09 am
Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:34:29 pmUnless you are saying the 3002 Charlottesville is a divergent reality somehow. Which I disagree with
Gotta look through this again. The realities of Unity is a bit of a headache.
There's only 1 reality and the Lost Land/Lost Valley.

UNITY begins when Erica moves a part of the city of San Gabriel--the Rainbow Tower/Edgewater Milespire--to the Lost Land where it is then known as the San Gabriel Citadel.

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by magnusr »

Sunlight on Snow wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:05:35 pmThere's only 1 reality and the Lost Land/Lost Valley.
Yes and no. There's one reality, but it changes due to Unity. For instance, Gilad of 4001 starts without a scar, but when young Gilad gets a wound, then old Gilad has had a scar all along. Gotta admit I don't remember enough to guess if Solar could have similar changes.

EDIT: To be precise, old Gilad had been through another Unity, though he doesn't remember much. As for Solar, Solar 12 shows a world where Solar has been through that first unknown Unity, while Rai 0 is told by a geomancer after the final Unity is over and done with. But then again, I see no reason why Solar would have changed that much. More likely the geomancer tells things wrong. And anyway, my understanding is that Shooter was not as involved in Rai 0 as in the other books. Then there's Deathmate that also changed things retroactively :P

/Magnus

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

magnusr wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:13:53 pm
Sunlight on Snow wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:05:35 pmThere's only 1 reality and the Lost Land/Lost Valley.
...There's one reality, but it changes due to Unity...Gilad of 4001 starts without a scar...old Gilad had been through another Unity, though he doesn't remember much...that first unknown Unity...More likely the geomancer tells things wrong.

/Magnus
This conversation has sparked more debate than I expected. And remember when I said I disagreed about the divergent reality business with Charlottesville 3002? Well that was before I read Eternal Warrior #2. After that book, hints before are coming together, and I now agree entirely with what you say here, and disagree with my earlier self.

The Charlottesville 3002 appearance of Solar was apparently in the timeline before the published Unity changed things. You refer to a "first unknown" Unity conflict, and the resulting timeline which Future Gilad somewhat remembers and in which got no scar. I think it's unclear if Charlottesville 3002 (from Erica's backstory) is in the timeline resulting from the "first unknown" Unity or if it is from a timeline that precedes all Unity events. But because Solar #12 was published prior to the end of the published Unity conflict, I would guess it cannot be the timeline resulting from "our" Unity.

Headache much?

I would gladly accept your take that Rai #0 is, however, a product of the timeline resulting from "our" Unity. I think it's furthermore entirely reasonable that over two thousand years a few details might get confused in the story handed down. Why couldn't they have used a book? Haha.

So this leaves Magnus and his comments. I don't see any problem whatsoever to assume Magnus as of issue #6 is in the timeline of the unscarred Gilad and that later Magnus is in the timeline of scarred Gilad (and Rai Zero). I don't think that Magnus #6 would be in the totally Pre-Unity timeline, but I can't really prove that.

I was thinking...if we assume the presence of bionosaurs in the 20th century (and other time anomalies) would have alerted Erica to the failure of the "earlier, unknown" Unity event... you'd think she'd be aware of it and mention it...that makes me think Charlottesville 3002 (Solar #12) was in a timeline unaffected by bionosaurs... therefore and because Future Gilad says Unity went better for our heroes in the "earlier, unknown" Unity event, I wonder if perhaps the "earlier, unknown" Unity had a better outcome without the time anomalies (i.e., bionosaurs)

On the other hand...if bionosaurs do show up in 1992... perhaps the exact reason "our" Unity event is so difficult for our heroes is that "this time" Erica is better prepared due to her advance notice that the "earlier, unknown" Unity event went badly for her.

I like that. Okay I'm going to assume for my preference that Solar #12 is AFTER bionosaurs and AFTER the "earlier, unknown" Unity event in which Erica probably had no army, only engineers and scientists. This is despite there being no real reason it cannot be totally Pre-Unity.

That makes me wonder...is she going to try again with even better preparedness?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

greg wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:39:53 am
Sunlight on Snow wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:03:24 am
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:26:43 pm Except...

Magnus #6 established that no one has seen Solar in OVER a thousand years, and it's 4001 AD, so Jim Shooter was the one who got it wrong... in Solar #12.
And what does Solar say in the very next panel?

(And he only repaired that satellite so he could keep observing Erica.)

Jim Shooter got it all right.
I thought we had an understanding not to question the godfather?!? What's wrong with you, guys??? :lol:
But, if he was SEEN in 3002 then "Solar hasn't been SEEN in over a thousand years" is a lie in 4001...
I have not had the privilege of reading Magnus #6, but I don't see why you would say that only either Magnus lied (which he wouldn't) or it was a writer error. It seems to me that Magnus was pretty darn close with the thousand years thing. If he was speaking off the cuff, I'd say it's ENTIRELY reasonable for a general citizen to overstate or misremember something like that. But maybe he was referring to some source or computer file or something, which would make it NOT "off the cuff"
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:26:43 pm
Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:34:29 pm
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:47:32 pm
Oxmyx wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07:12 pm
greg wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:23:49 pm Another explanation could be...
I wasn't referring to Erica's screens. It was on the TV in the bar Albert was in, in 3002...
Right, but all of that happens in Erica's world...the Lost Land...
I'm not talking about the Speakeasy, I'm talking about a Charlottesville VA bar in 3002. Unless you are saying the 3002 Charlottesville is a divergent reality somehow. Which I disagree with
OK, I was reading the 3002 panels as being part of the Speakeasy...

Rai #0 matches Magnus #6 continuity.
In my new understanding (after reading Eternal Warrior#2), I think Magnus #6 and Rai #0 are in different timelines, and therefore don't need to agree. It appears to me that Magnus #6 and Solar #12 still disagree on the face but I am making allowance the Magnus statement is an approximatation. These two issues (Magnus and Solar) are in the same timeline BEFORE the published Unity event. Rai #0 would be AFTER

But, of course, these are just stories....
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by magnusr »

Oxmyx wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:58:58 pm That makes me wonder...is she going to try again with even better preparedness?
Have you read the first issues of Secret Weapons? :twisted:

(sorry to remove most of your well thought through post - had nothing else to add to it)

/Magnus

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Re: Yep...VH1 Rai Zero and Unity disagree on Solar

Post by Oxmyx »

magnusr wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15:58 am
Oxmyx wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:58:58 pm That makes me wonder...is she going to try again with even better preparedness?
Have you read the first issues of Secret Weapons? :twisted:

/Magnus
No I haven't! I knew I wanted to and about a year ago bought all the early Secret Weapons issues, but they've been sitting around unread (even though I knew they would be good). My priority was catching up on VEI and VH1 trades.

Now that you've given me a hint those issues are even more important than I realized, I will prioritize them. Thanks!
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?


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