I Dislike Jack Boniface

[armlessphelan]

VH1 Shadowman is probably my fave Valiant comic of any era, and I didn't read it until after the reboot. But the reboot version of Jack has been all over the place and terrible. Andy Diggle tried to address it in his run on Shadowman, but it seemed like it existed just to undo everything Justin Jordan did. (Also, why the *SQUEE* would Alyssa let Jack back into her life at all? He's been nothing but *SQUEE* with regards to her.)

Is there any fixing this character or should he have stayed The Magpie, where he was actually somewhat interesting as a character?

[Oxmyx]

VH1 Shadowman is probably my fave Valiant comic of any era

What have you thought of Blisterman?

[armlessphelan]

VH1 Shadowman is probably my fave Valiant comic of any era

What have you thought of Blisterman?

10/10 would bang.

[SwiftMann]

I'm with you. I only recently read VH1 version and fell in love with the character. Everything since (currently reading Acclaim and have read all VEI versions) have fallen short of the original. For me, it's the constant focus on Deadside and what it all is and trying to make something so weird "real."

I'd love if DMG went back to their roots and took a shot at the Bob Hall version of the character.

[nycjadie]

Jack Bonerface?

[aj583]

Bob Hall’s Shadowman was really good. Loved it as a non-save-the-world, gritty, self contained series. My biggest disappointment with VEI is definitely Shadowman and Eternal Warrior. They took my 2 favorite V1 characters and messed them up. However, VEI also gave us great X-O and Harby series, so they did some amazing work on some of the other re-launches. But so sad Shadowman is such a mess now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[armlessphelan]

Bob Hall’s Shadowman was really good. Loved it as a non-save-the-world, gritty, self contained series. My biggest disappointment with VEI is definitely Shadowman and Eternal Warrior. They took my 2 favorite V1 characters and messed them up. However, VEI also gave us great X-O and Harby series, so they did some amazing work on some of the other re-launches. But so sad Shadowman is such a mess now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I loved so much of the early VEI stuff. I feel like the big mistake with Shadowman is that so much of it seems to be cribbing from the Acclaim era, rather than VH1. But as I haven't read the Acclaim stuff (I read the Magnus run and that put me off anything else), I can't say for sure.

[IMJ]

This thread makes me want to go back and read as much of Shadowman vol 1 as I can stomach again. I loved that book early on. I was a bigger fan during the ponytail era than the flowing locks era though.

I own Acclaim Shadowman but that's because of the collection filler and low print-run chase. I think they are widely unreadable.

I got on board with the amazing Zircher relaunch of Shadowman, then dropped off after a while. Then I bought Andy Diggle's run but that was mostly because we all projected ridiculously low print runs for that run here on the boards so I got on to building a set. Never read 'em though.

[SwiftMann]

Bob Hall’s Shadowman was really good. Loved it as a non-save-the-world, gritty, self contained series. My biggest disappointment with VEI is definitely Shadowman and Eternal Warrior. They took my 2 favorite V1 characters and messed them up. However, VEI also gave us great X-O and Harby series, so they did some amazing work on some of the other re-launches. But so sad Shadowman is such a mess now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I loved so much of the early VEI stuff. I feel like the big mistake with Shadowman is that so much of it seems to be cribbing from the Acclaim era, rather than VH1. But as I haven't read the Acclaim stuff (I read the Magnus run and that put me off anything else), I can't say for sure.

I'm reading/re-reading the Acclaim stuff now. Through the first 7 issues of Acclaim Shadowman and, yes, VEI has essentially taken all their beats from this version. And these 7 issues are amazingly awful - bad art from eventual good artists and abysmal non-stories from good writers.

[aj583]

This thread makes me want to go back and read as much of Shadowman vol 1 as I can stomach again. I loved that book early on. I was a bigger fan during the ponytail era than the flowing locks era though.

I own Acclaim Shadowman but that's because of the collection filler and low print-run chase. I think they are widely unreadable.

I got on board with the amazing Zircher relaunch of Shadowman, then dropped off after a while. Then I bought Andy Diggle's run but that was mostly because we all projected ridiculously low print runs for that run here on the boards so I got on to building a set. Never read 'em though.

Am curious as to what you liked about the VEI Zircher relaunch. Art was good..do agree with that. I thought the story was uninteresting...and Jack completely lame compared to the V1 version. Best book was VEI Shadowman 0. Great book but it was because it was focused on Darque and Sandria who are 10x more interesting than the main character of the book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[armlessphelan]

This thread makes me want to go back and read as much of Shadowman vol 1 as I can stomach again. I loved that book early on. I was a bigger fan during the ponytail era than the flowing locks era though.

I own Acclaim Shadowman but that's because of the collection filler and low print-run chase. I think they are widely unreadable.

I got on board with the amazing Zircher relaunch of Shadowman, then dropped off after a while. Then I bought Andy Diggle's run but that was mostly because we all projected ridiculously low print runs for that run here on the boards so I got on to building a set. Never read 'em though.

Am curious as to what you liked about the VEI Zircher relaunch. Art was good..do agree with that. I thought the story was uninteresting...and Jack completely lame compared to the V1 version. Best book was VEI Shadowman 0. Great book but it was because it was focused on Darque and Sandria who are 10x more interesting than the main character of the book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I remember the Halloween issue being fun. It was incredibly generic, but it felt like something that VH1 Jack might have gone through. Patch was too good an artist to be saddled with Justin Jordan's uninspired writing.

[nycjadie]

I’m probably in the minority, but I loved the V4 Shadowman. The pacing was admittedly slow, but I thought it was solid. Was sad Doc died so early though. I thought there could have been more there.

[dornwolf]

I’m probably in the minority, but I loved the V4 Shadowman. The pacing was admittedly slow, but I thought it was solid. Was sad Doc died so early though. I thought there could have been more there.

I've enjoyed current era Shadowman. Feels in line with Dresden Files and things of that nature.. Problem is that Valiant short changes the character all the time.

[Sunlight on Snow]

I love all of Shadowman except VEI's first series incl. End Times, excl. #0 and #10, of course.

Jack's one of my favorite comic book characters. The sax playing version was certainly more likeable and for a brief moment I was hoping Diggle would let him pick it up again but then, for whatever reasons only known to VEI & Diggle, they let the series run out at #11. Very disappointing. Just when it was about to get going. And the sales numbers of the series were still looking okay then.

When will they realize the current strategy isn't getting them anywhere? We need more ongoing series featuring the flagship characters again, and they need to run for at least 12+++ issues. Nothing else will bring back (long term) readers. Having said this, I believe the current problem isn't lack of quality but lack of strategy. Nobody would complain about a few mini-series if they were publishing a decent amount of ongoing series featuring major characters. You can put 1-2 superheroes on hiatus at a time but not the other way round. What's a superhero universe without superheroes? Imagine DC not publishing any Batman & Superman titles....for months!?! It's crazy. Does nobody want to write for Valiant anymore?

Sorry for going slightly.....

[IMJ]

This thread makes me want to go back and read as much of Shadowman vol 1 as I can stomach again. I loved that book early on. I was a bigger fan during the ponytail era than the flowing locks era though.

I own Acclaim Shadowman but that's because of the collection filler and low print-run chase. I think they are widely unreadable.

I got on board with the amazing Zircher relaunch of Shadowman, then dropped off after a while. Then I bought Andy Diggle's run but that was mostly because we all projected ridiculously low print runs for that run here on the boards so I got on to building a set. Never read 'em though.

Am curious as to what you liked about the VEI Zircher relaunch. Art was good..do agree with that. I thought the story was uninteresting...and Jack completely lame compared to the V1 version. Best book was VEI Shadowman 0. Great book but it was because it was focused on Darque and Sandria who are 10x more interesting than the main character of the book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like I said, "the amazing Zircher relaunch...."
I was excited about the book when it launched - neo-Valiant had an atmosphere of excitement like it was going to harken back to the 1st three years of VH1 when things were great. The variants were still neat - we hadn't realized yet that neo-Valiant was going to saturate the market with variants (my favorite HTF book of neo-Valiant is still that Shadowman issue special with the black slipcover), and the art on Shadowman looked great.

Where I said that I dropped off after a while? That would be with issue 13, but I only held on for that long as a function of pre-ordering. IIRC I truly lost interest around maybe issue 7 or 8 - that may have been when the new art team came on.

Shadowman was something I found that I kept buying because of the relaunch excitement, movement and variant hunt more than the actual books. Archer & Armstrong and X-O were the books I held on for the longest - probably through issues 20 or so of each one. Now the only Valiant book I've bought in years are those involving Rai, but I missed something along the way with that I think because I read the new Rai #1 and had no idea what was going on there with the kid.

[Sunlight on Snow]

Now the only Valiant book I've bought in years are those involving Rai, but I missed something along the way with that I think because I read the new Rai #1 and had no idea what was going on there with the kid.

The kid's origin story is told in Rai #13 by Kindt.

His next appearance is in the Fallen World mini that is the prelude to Abnett's current Rai series.

[agent_graves]

VH1 Shadowman is probably my fave Valiant comic of any era, and I didn't read it until after the reboot. But the reboot version of Jack has been all over the place and terrible. Andy Diggle tried to address it in his run on Shadowman, but it seemed like it existed just to undo everything Justin Jordan did. (Also, why the *SQUEE* would Alyssa let Jack back into her life at all? He's been nothing but *SQUEE* with regards to her.)

Is there any fixing this character or should he have stayed The Magpie, where he was actually somewhat interesting as a character?

Ugh, loved Magpie!!! But understood it wouldn’t last...

This thread makes me want to go back and read as much of Shadowman vol 1 as I can stomach again. I loved that book early on. I was a bigger fan during the ponytail era than the flowing locks era though.

I own Acclaim Shadowman but that's because of the collection filler and low print-run chase. I think they are widely unreadable.

I got on board with the amazing Zircher relaunch of Shadowman, then dropped off after a while. Then I bought Andy Diggle's run but that was mostly because we all projected ridiculously low print runs for that run here on the boards so I got on to building a set. Never read 'em though.

Am curious as to what you liked about the VEI Zircher relaunch. Art was good..do agree with that. I thought the story was uninteresting...and Jack completely lame compared to the V1 version. Best book was VEI Shadowman 0. Great book but it was because it was focused on Darque and Sandria who are 10x more interesting than the main character of the book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shadowman #0 & #10 are the Gold Standard for how to write an amazing Shadowman story. Those two issues are amazing!!

[IMJ]

Now the only Valiant book I've bought in years are those involving Rai, but I missed something along the way with that I think because I read the new Rai #1 and had no idea what was going on there with the kid.

The kid's origin story is told in Rai #13 by Kindt.

His next appearance is in the Fallen World mini that is the prelude to Abnett's current Rai series.

Oh okay.... Yeah I read Kindt's Rai and 4001 AD. But that was it.... thanks for the update.