Livewire 5-8 were great

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GammaJosh
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Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

I'm posting this morning somewhat exasperated over how misled I was by people on this board about Livewire. I've been behind on my reading, slowly catching up on my Valiant titles from 2019, and saved Livewire for last since the consensus on this board seemed to be that it was awful. I read the 1st arc a month or so ago and thought it was just ok: average comics, nothing to write home about, but also not terrible. However, this morning I read Livewire 5-8 and thought they were great. The *SQUEE* art I'd been hearing about was energetic and told the story effectively. The *SQUEE* story I'd been hearing about kept me on the edge of my seat wondering what the real deal was going to be with PSEP, and what was going to happen with the young girl Phoebe. Vita Ayala explored the moral grey area between Amanda's point of view and PSEP's, and in my opinion it paid off.

But please tell me again about the *SQUEE* writer who only got hired because of "diversity", or this *SQUEE* artist that nobody seemed to complain about when he was on Quantum & Woody and Dinesh was still CEO...
Last edited by GammaJosh on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:33:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

I'm open to hear people's actual criticisms of this book, but I can't imagine they're going to boil down to anything other than:
1) It's not the style you want from Valiant, or;
2) Your mind was closed because Dinesh is gone and/or because this book was too black and female for you.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by lorddunlow »

Your post makes me want to go read this now. I haven't read a Valiant book in 2 or 3 years.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by DirtbagSailor »

lorddunlow wrote:Your post makes me want to go read this now...
Image

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by Oxmyx »

GammaJ, I'm just like you. Was assuming Livewire was not worth the read
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by SwiftMann »

Yeah, well...that's, like, your opinion, man!

Seriously though, I can see that this run could be to your taste and some of it could be great to you. But to say that the art effectively told the story is patently ridiculous. On top of those, there are a lot of other issues that a lot of people disliked. Just because you think they were great doesn't mean they were great.
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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

And I plowed through Livewire #9-12 just now as well. These to me are a perfect example of where the disconnect is happening with older fans. The art in this arc was not to my personal taste at all. Looking at the pages purely as static, visual art, without reading the story, I don't particularly like them, would not want to display the pages on my wall, and wouldn't be likely to show them off to other friends who like comics. However, in reading the story, I found that the art told the story very effectively. It lead my eye from panel to panel easily. The facial expressions and physical "acting" were good so I could catch the emotions of the characters. I can see how someone inclined to a less cartoony style would think this is crap, and in fact I've seen people here say it's crap. But crappy comic art is art that makes the story unclear. This is not that. This is just a style that some people here don't like, and that is not the same thing as bad comic art. I guess the question is do you need the art style to be the way you want it in order to be able to enjoy a story? For me, I don't. I'd never in a million years ask this artist for a commission, but I'd also never in a million years say she sucks, because she told the story effectively.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

SwiftMann wrote:Yeah, well...that's, like, your opinion, man!

Seriously though, I can see that this run could be to your taste and some of it could be great to you. But to say that the art effectively told the story is patently ridiculous. On top of those, there are a lot of other issues that a lot of people disliked. Just because you think they were great doesn't mean they were great.
Clever.

The primary reason I posted this is because I've seen at least a couple of people on this board assert that nobody liked Livewire. I'm here to say that's *SQUEE*. I posted over on the Facebook group and found others that enjoyed the series as well.

I saw that the "This Board Used to Be Cool" thread got deleted, but I'll reiterate what I wrote there: this is now a board for fans of a thing which is populated by people who are no longer fans of that thing. The fact that you still hang around after finding most of the last two years to be garbage is kind of astonishing. You don't like Valiant anymore. Why not just move on, instead of hanging around being a bummer?

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by SwiftMann »

GammaJosh wrote:And I plowed through Livewire #9-12 just now as well. These to me are a perfect example of where the disconnect is happening with older fans. The art in this arc was not to my personal taste at all. Looking at the pages purely as static, visual art, without reading the story, I don't particularly like them, would not want to display the pages on my wall, and wouldn't be likely to show them off to other friends who like comics. However, in reading the story, I found that the art told the story very effectively. It lead my eye from panel to panel easily. The facial expressions and physical "acting" were good so I could catch the emotions of the characters. I can see how someone inclined to a less cartoony style would think this is crap, and in fact I've seen people here say it's crap. But crappy comic art is art that makes the story unclear. This is not that. This is just a style that some people here don't like, and that is not the same thing as bad comic art. I guess the question is do you need the art style to be the way you want it in order to be able to enjoy a story? For me, I don't. I'd never in a million years ask this artist for a commission, but I'd also never in a million years say she sucks, because she told the story effectively.
I LOVE "cartoony" art. I genuinely believe this was technically poor artwork, not a style preference. I think the facial expressions were terrible. The line work was unclear and didn't convey the story well at all. That hot mess of a splash page with the cop showing her badge is permanently burned into my mind's eye. In a terrible way.
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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by SwiftMann »

GammaJosh wrote:I saw that the "This Board Used to Be Cool" thread got deleted...
Interesting.
...but I'll reiterate what I wrote there: this is now a board for fans of a thing which is populated by people who are no longer fans of that thing. The fact that you still hang around after finding most of the last two years to be garbage is kind of astonishing. You don't like Valiant anymore. Why not just move on, instead of hanging around being a bummer?
1) I have at least one variant of (nearly) every issue of every iteration of Valiant ever so I'm not stopping now.
2) I don't buy comics to NOT read them.
3) There is still diamonds in the rough. I love the current Rai run. It's just the only of the 6-8 books a month I've enjoyed in many months.
Last edited by SwiftMann on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:06:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

SwiftMann wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:I saw that the "This Board Used to Be Cool" thread got deleted, but I'll reiterate what I wrote there: this is now a board for fans of a thing which is populated by people who are no longer fans of that thing. The fact that you still hang around after finding most of the last two years to be garbage is kind of astonishing. You don't like Valiant anymore. Why not just move on, instead of hanging around being a bummer?
1) I have at least one variant of (nearly) every issue of every iteration of Valiant ever so I'm not stopping now.
2) I don't buy comics to NOT read them.
3) There is still diamonds in the rough. I love the current Rai run. It's just the only of the 6-8 books a month I've enjoyed in many months.

I am 100% locked with you on #1 with the completist bug as well. However, I am actually enjoying most of the books. (Granted I'm a few months behind, so that really means I enjoyed most of everything through the first half of 2019.) I can't imagine hanging in there if I was only enjoying one book per month.

Fallen World and Rai are gems. I'm about to hop in the car so I can go pick up #3. (Ok, I'm selectively caught up on a few titles.)
Last edited by GammaJosh on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

SwiftMann wrote: I LOVE "cartoony" art. I genuinely believe this was technically poor artwork, not a style preference. I think the facial expressions were terrible. The line work was unclear and didn't convey the story well at all. That hot mess of a splash page with the cop showing her badge is permanently burned into my mind's eye. In a terrible way.
I was never left guessing what was going on in the story. That happens to me a lot with more popular or technically better artists. Clayton Crain and Chris Bachalo both tend to leave me wondering just what the heck just happened, for example. That didn't happen to me with this arc of Livewire, so to me, that's clear storytelling.

That splash page caught my eye as well. The perspective was all kinds of wonky. But I chalk that up to style. And, as I mentioned, not a style that I am particularly fond of. In a weird way it reminded me a bit of later Erik Larsen.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by SwiftMann »

GammaJosh wrote:
SwiftMann wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:I saw that the "This Board Used to Be Cool" thread got deleted, but I'll reiterate what I wrote there: this is now a board for fans of a thing which is populated by people who are no longer fans of that thing. The fact that you still hang around after finding most of the last two years to be garbage is kind of astonishing. You don't like Valiant anymore. Why not just move on, instead of hanging around being a bummer?
1) I have at least one variant of (nearly) every issue of every iteration of Valiant ever so I'm not stopping now.
2) I don't buy comics to NOT read them.
3) There is still diamonds in the rough. I love the current Rai run. It's just the only of the 6-8 books a month I've enjoyed in many months.

I am 100% locked with you on #1 with the completist bug as well. However, I am actually enjoying most of the books. (Granted I'm a few months behind, so that really means I enjoyed most of everything through the first half of 2019.) I can't imagine hanging in there if I was only enjoying one book per month.
Apologies that this is pretty far off the original topic...

I do have hopes for what's coming up this year.

Visitor - I found #1 painfully boring, but haven't written off the possibility that things will eventually happen.

Q&W - VEI hasn't done well by this property yet. But I'm still hopeful. Re-reading the original along with a first read of all the other Acclaim books and still love the original.

Doctor Tomorrow - Fascinated by this being just the second Acclaim title reinvented.

X-O - I always have hopes for this character. As long as it's nothing like Kindt's run (or the horrible portrayal in Psi-Lords).

Fallen World and Rai are gems. I'm about to hop in the car so I can go pick up #3.
Yup. Going to hit my shop today too.
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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by SwiftMann »

GammaJosh wrote:
SwiftMann wrote: I LOVE "cartoony" art. I genuinely believe this was technically poor artwork, not a style preference. I think the facial expressions were terrible. The line work was unclear and didn't convey the story well at all. That hot mess of a splash page with the cop showing her badge is permanently burned into my mind's eye. In a terrible way.
I was never left guessing what was going on in the story. That happens to me a lot with more popular or technically better artists. Clayton Crain and Chris Bachalo both tend to leave me wondering just what the heck just happened, for example. That didn't happen to me with this arc of Livewire, so to me, that's clear storytelling.

That splash page caught my eye as well. The perspective was all kinds of wonky. But I chalk that up to style. And, as I mentioned, not a style that I am particularly fond of. In a weird way it reminded me a bit of later Erik Larsen.
Hmm... I can definitely see that with Crain. I actually did not enjoy his Rai work. Too hard to tell what was happening. I love Bachalo. I haven't had a hard time in recent years, but he's definitely had rough work here and there.

I almost get the Erik Larsen comparison. I've been reading Savage Dragon from the beginning and there was definitely a low point in the artwork a few years back. He's bounced back lately. Maybe it could be compared to that stuff in some ways, but that was rushed, nearly lazy attempts by Larsen and was less than good art. I still think it was better than this artwork.
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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by lorddunlow »

GammaJosh wrote:
I saw that the "This Board Used to Be Cool" thread got deleted, but I'll reiterate what I wrote there: this is now a board for fans of a thing which is populated by people who are no longer fans of that thing. The fact that you still hang around after finding most of the last two years to be garbage is kind of astonishing. You don't like Valiant anymore. Why not just move on, instead of hanging around being a bummer?
It isn't deleted. It was just moved to a more appropriate area (Registered Members Only).


As for your assertion, this board was created by fans of a thing that hadn't actually existed for years and literally assisted in bringing back that thing. It's definitely within the purview of the members here to whine that the thing is going a direction we don't like. We have a lot more feeling of ownership/entitlement than most fans and nowadays most fans complain about the things they love being ruined by current creators/owners *cough* Star Wars *cough*.

I'm really glad you're enjoying the current stuff, and 's I said, your comment has me interested to read Livewire.

Just try to chill (others are much worse than you by the way) and enjoy it/discuss it. If sldertain members constantly make comments that annoy you, make them an enemy through the board and you will no longer see their posts. It's great.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by kjjohanson »

SwiftMann wrote:Yeah, well...that's, like, your opinion, man!

Seriously though, I can see that this run could be to your taste and some of it could be great to you. But to say that the art effectively told the story is patently ridiculous. On top of those, there are a lot of other issues that a lot of people disliked. Just because you think they were great doesn't mean they were great.
What does this even mean? Are you under the impression that whether a book is great is an objective truth?
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by GammaJosh »

lorddunlow wrote: If certain members constantly make comments that annoy you, make them an enemy through the board and you will no longer see their posts. It's great.
What?! That's awesome! BYE, DALLOW!

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by SwiftMann »

kjjohanson wrote:
SwiftMann wrote:Yeah, well...that's, like, your opinion, man!

Seriously though, I can see that this run could be to your taste and some of it could be great to you. But to say that the art effectively told the story is patently ridiculous. On top of those, there are a lot of other issues that a lot of people disliked. Just because you think they were great doesn't mean they were great.
What does this even mean? Are you under the impression that whether a book is great is an objective truth?
I took a post of his from another thread and flipped it around. It's not really my thoughts at all, but Gamma's. Sort of. Thus his "clever" comment.
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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
lorddunlow wrote: If certain members constantly make comments that annoy you, make them an enemy through the board and you will no longer see their posts. It's great.
What?! That's awesome! BYE, DALLOW!
To quote Conor McGregor...who da £#€% is dis guy? :?

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by TheFerg714 »

I can't really remember much about the second arc. I thought I might reread the arc again, so I could post a detailed comment about just how wrong GammaJosh is, but I can't put myself through that again though, so I'll just say that I must have higher standards for Valiant than you. The third arc is just awful though.
SwiftMann wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:58:01 pm
I took a post of his from another thread and flipped it around. It's not really my thoughts at all, but Gamma's. Sort of. Thus his "clever" comment.
:funnypost:

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Re: Livewire 5-8 were great

Post by agent_graves »

All opinions are welcomed and valid... :thumb:

Mine. First arc was good, second was ok, third was trash!! :?

Still love the character, hope she gets another book down the line with her crew/family, Secret Weapons!
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