Serious question...how accurate is this article?
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- slym2none
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Remember when, 25+ years ago, Marvel people only *SQUEE* about how convoluted the X-Men's history was?
FTR, Tony Stark was a larger man than Bruce Wayne back in the day. (He was also an alcoholic at one point. Great stories, those.) That Tony Stark was why I had a long road to acceptance of RDJ as Tony Stark in the movies.
-slym
FTR, Tony Stark was a larger man than Bruce Wayne back in the day. (He was also an alcoholic at one point. Great stories, those.) That Tony Stark was why I had a long road to acceptance of RDJ as Tony Stark in the movies.
-slym
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
+1kjjohanson wrote:I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.
There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.
And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.
The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
While I agree that the headline misrepresents what is happening in the real world and is a reflection of the author's hyperbolic, chicken-little the-sky-is-falling spirit - isn't that what journalism has become in the 2010s? That's basically the way news articles are written from the New York Times to the Drudge Report and everything else in between. I mean, this is how reporters work now, they take minor details out of context and blow them out of proportion and write headlines about how horrible it all is. Is it for the hateclicks? Is it to fuel the outrage-industrial complex? Whatever it is, it's probably journalism remodeling itself around a broken business model based on social media views. This is facebook's fault.ckb wrote:Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.Oxmyx wrote:This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?TheFerg714 wrote:Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above was basically IM 58?-592.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Good point. But more than just Facebook I think this started with cable news and the 24 hour new cycle phenomenon.Chiclo wrote:While I agree that the headline misrepresents what is happening in the real world and is a reflection of the author's hyperbolic, chicken-little the-sky-is-falling spirit - isn't that what journalism has become in the 2010s? That's basically the way news articles are written from the New York Times to the Drudge Report and everything else in between. I mean, this is how reporters work now, they take minor details out of context and blow them out of proportion and write headlines about how horrible it all is. Is it for the hateclicks? Is it to fuel the outrage-industrial complex? Whatever it is, it's probably journalism remodeling itself around a broken business model based on social media views. This is facebook's fault.ckb wrote:Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.Oxmyx wrote:This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?TheFerg714 wrote:Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above was basically IM 58?-592.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.agent_graves wrote:+1kjjohanson wrote:I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.
There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.
And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.
The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
That's the general connotation with "butthurt"ckb wrote:Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.agent_graves wrote:+1kjjohanson wrote:I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.
There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.
And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.
The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- kjjohanson
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Not all journalism has gone that way. I'd argue that to intentionally take something out of context to tell a story different from the truth isn't actual "journalism." I also think that oftne *headlines* might be sensational, to get people to click, but the actual content is reasonable. You'll generally have different people writing the headline for an article. Of course, a lot of people won't even bother reading, and just go with what is presented in the headline. The key is to read stuff yourself and keep a cristical mid, even – perhaps especially – with material that seems like it's going to reinforce and preconceived views you have.Chiclo wrote:While I agree that the headline misrepresents what is happening in the real world and is a reflection of the author's hyperbolic, chicken-little the-sky-is-falling spirit - isn't that what journalism has become in the 2010s? That's basically the way news articles are written from the New York Times to the Drudge Report and everything else in between. I mean, this is how reporters work now, they take minor details out of context and blow them out of proportion and write headlines about how horrible it all is. Is it for the hateclicks? Is it to fuel the outrage-industrial complex? Whatever it is, it's probably journalism remodeling itself around a broken business model based on social media views. This is facebook's fault.ckb wrote:Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.Oxmyx wrote:This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?TheFerg714 wrote:Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above was basically IM 58?-592.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
I associate it with an unproductive, not an unreasonable, feeling.kjjohanson wrote:That's the general connotation with "butthurt"ckb wrote:Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.agent_graves wrote:+1kjjohanson wrote:I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.
There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.
And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.
The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
kjjohanson wrote:That's the general connotation with "butthurt"ckb wrote:Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.agent_graves wrote:+1kjjohanson wrote:I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.
There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.
And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.
The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
+1
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
I'm butthurt that we are discussing the connotation of "butthurt".kjjohanson wrote:That's the general connotation with "butthurt"ckb wrote:Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.agent_graves wrote:+1kjjohanson wrote:I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.
There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.
And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.
The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Nobody complained when Bucky became Cap or Rick Jones became the Hulk. This article is pure racist trash.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
The thing is, people *do* complain when those sorts of changes are made. It's more obvious now in the age of the internet, but plenty of fans complain when characters are swapped. The issue I see if that when a character is of a race/gender/sex, etc. that is different from that of the character being replaced (who is usually one that is commonly seen represented), some fans think that it has to be a drive for diversity rather than they just want to do something different than what's become routine.GammaJosh wrote:Nobody complained when Bucky became Cap or Rick Jones became the Hulk. This article is pure racist trash.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
It's because all of these recent changes happened within like a year. There was a good chunk of time where if you went into a comic store looking for a classic Marvel character, you wouldn't be able to find any, because they were all replaced by diversity showcase characters.GammaJosh wrote:Nobody complained when Bucky became Cap or Rick Jones became the Hulk. This article is pure racist trash.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Does anybody else remember when XO became a black woman for a few issues?ckb wrote:Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.Oxmyx wrote:This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?TheFerg714 wrote:Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above was basically IM 58?-592.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?
-
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
+1lorddunlow wrote:kjjohanson wrote:I'm butthurt that we are discussing the connotation of "butthurt".ckb wrote:That's the general connotation with "butthurt"agent_graves wrote:Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.kjjohanson wrote:+1ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
lk
Last edited by Oxmyx on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:25:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Best X-O cover, ever.Oxmyx wrote:Does anybody else remember when XO became a black woman for a few issues?
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
That was a good cover. Fire.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Personally I thought the following issue of her dodging missiles was cooler.slym2none wrote:Best X-O cover, ever.Oxmyx wrote:Does anybody else remember when XO became a black woman for a few issues?
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And side note, it took me years to Dawn on me that was the skin of a mostly naked woman I was looking at.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?
Oxmyx wrote:And side note, it took me years to Dawn on me that was the skin of a mostly naked woman I was looking at.
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Some people spend their whole lives believing in fairy tales, usually because they don't want to give up the fabulous prizes.