Serious question...how accurate is this article?

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by slym2none »

Remember when, 25+ years ago, Marvel people only *SQUEE* about how convoluted the X-Men's history was?

:lol:

FTR, Tony Stark was a larger man than Bruce Wayne back in the day. (He was also an alcoholic at one point. Great stories, those.) That Tony Stark was why I had a long road to acceptance of RDJ as Tony Stark in the movies.



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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by agent_graves »

kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.

The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.

There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.

And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.

The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by Chiclo »

ckb wrote:
Oxmyx wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.

However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?
Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.

There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above was basically IM 58?-592.
While I agree that the headline misrepresents what is happening in the real world and is a reflection of the author's hyperbolic, chicken-little the-sky-is-falling spirit - isn't that what journalism has become in the 2010s? That's basically the way news articles are written from the New York Times to the Drudge Report and everything else in between. I mean, this is how reporters work now, they take minor details out of context and blow them out of proportion and write headlines about how horrible it all is. Is it for the hateclicks? Is it to fuel the outrage-industrial complex? Whatever it is, it's probably journalism remodeling itself around a broken business model based on social media views. This is facebook's fault.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by Oxmyx »

Chiclo wrote:
ckb wrote:
Oxmyx wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.

However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?
Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.

There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above was basically IM 58?-592.
While I agree that the headline misrepresents what is happening in the real world and is a reflection of the author's hyperbolic, chicken-little the-sky-is-falling spirit - isn't that what journalism has become in the 2010s? That's basically the way news articles are written from the New York Times to the Drudge Report and everything else in between. I mean, this is how reporters work now, they take minor details out of context and blow them out of proportion and write headlines about how horrible it all is. Is it for the hateclicks? Is it to fuel the outrage-industrial complex? Whatever it is, it's probably journalism remodeling itself around a broken business model based on social media views. This is facebook's fault.
Good point. But more than just Facebook I think this started with cable news and the 24 hour new cycle phenomenon.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by ckb »

agent_graves wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.

The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.

There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.

And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.

The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
+1
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by kjjohanson »

ckb wrote:
agent_graves wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.

The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.

There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.

And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.

The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
+1
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.
That's the general connotation with "butthurt"
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by kjjohanson »

Chiclo wrote:
ckb wrote:
Oxmyx wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.

However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?
Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.

There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above was basically IM 58?-592.
While I agree that the headline misrepresents what is happening in the real world and is a reflection of the author's hyperbolic, chicken-little the-sky-is-falling spirit - isn't that what journalism has become in the 2010s? That's basically the way news articles are written from the New York Times to the Drudge Report and everything else in between. I mean, this is how reporters work now, they take minor details out of context and blow them out of proportion and write headlines about how horrible it all is. Is it for the hateclicks? Is it to fuel the outrage-industrial complex? Whatever it is, it's probably journalism remodeling itself around a broken business model based on social media views. This is facebook's fault.
Not all journalism has gone that way. I'd argue that to intentionally take something out of context to tell a story different from the truth isn't actual "journalism." I also think that oftne *headlines* might be sensational, to get people to click, but the actual content is reasonable. You'll generally have different people writing the headline for an article. Of course, a lot of people won't even bother reading, and just go with what is presented in the headline. The key is to read stuff yourself and keep a cristical mid, even – perhaps especially – with material that seems like it's going to reinforce and preconceived views you have.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by ckb »

kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:
agent_graves wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.

The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.

There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.

And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.

The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
+1
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.
That's the general connotation with "butthurt"
I associate it with an unproductive, not an unreasonable, feeling.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by agent_graves »

kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:
agent_graves wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.

The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.

There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.

And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.

The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
+1
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.
That's the general connotation with "butthurt"


+1 :!:
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by lorddunlow »

kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:
agent_graves wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.

The changes aren't causing the declining sales, the changes were BECAUSE of declining sales. They are an attempt to raise sales. Writers were hired and characters were changed to bring in new readers. It hasn't worked...maybe because it alienated old ones, maybe because the audience is too limited by the new focus, maybe because its just a dying medium. Who knows.

There is little doubt these changes were focused on woke culture and being PC. There is also no doubt there are still plenty of non-PC comics.

And there is plenty of butthurt to go around. The "white male" butthurt at the changes to iconic characters and invasion of PC. The butthurt of the new creators for being under-represented for 100 years and making radical changes. The butthurt of some fans who don't really want something new and just want good stories based on familiar characters. The butthurt of new fans who resent the history of the genre.

The author is correct that the pendulum does swing. He is asserting that we are due to a swing back away from PC. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I would assert that money always drives these decisions eventually.
I think being under-represented is a legitimate gripe. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
+1
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.
That's the general connotation with "butthurt"
I'm butthurt that we are discussing the connotation of "butthurt".

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by GammaJosh »

Nobody complained when Bucky became Cap or Rick Jones became the Hulk. This article is pure racist trash.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by kjjohanson »

GammaJosh wrote:Nobody complained when Bucky became Cap or Rick Jones became the Hulk. This article is pure racist trash.
The thing is, people *do* complain when those sorts of changes are made. It's more obvious now in the age of the internet, but plenty of fans complain when characters are swapped. The issue I see if that when a character is of a race/gender/sex, etc. that is different from that of the character being replaced (who is usually one that is commonly seen represented), some fans think that it has to be a drive for diversity rather than they just want to do something different than what's become routine.
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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by TheFerg714 »

GammaJosh wrote:Nobody complained when Bucky became Cap or Rick Jones became the Hulk. This article is pure racist trash.
It's because all of these recent changes happened within like a year. There was a good chunk of time where if you went into a comic store looking for a classic Marvel character, you wouldn't be able to find any, because they were all replaced by diversity showcase characters.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by Oxmyx »

ckb wrote:
Oxmyx wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
Oxmyx wrote: Question...about IronMan being a teen girl, which isn't accurate I see, I am under the impression IronMan was always a teen, except in the Marvel movies. Am I right? I very much am guessing.
Idk about Tony being a teen; I've always seen him as a 40-something while I've been reading comics.

However, it is actually completely accurate that Iron Man was replaced by a teen girl and I'm not sure why people are leading you in the wrong direction on this one. Alongside all the other heroes that were replaced by diverse heroes, Tony was "killed" and replaced by "Ironheart" who became the main character of the mainline Iron Man series.
This is fascinating. So if I pick up an Iron Man comic off the shelves, it'll be about Ironheart as the central character?
Yes, but it's still a bit "fake newsy" to say IronMan is a teen girl. It would be more accurate to say what you said above... the central character of the Invincible IronMan title was IronHeart for about a year. At the end of 2018 she got her own title. Like I said originally, more right than wrong, not all-right. And the storyline was about the search for the missing Tony Stark. Certainly putting things in a light favorable to the argument being made.

There was a ton of renumbering and volumes and whatever going on. Eventually with IM 593 it began going back to a Tony Stark title when they went back to the historical numbering.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invincib ... _Man_Vol_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above was basically IM 58?-592.
Does anybody else remember when XO became a black woman for a few issues?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by Oxmyx »

lorddunlow wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:
agent_graves wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
ckb wrote:I think the main premise is reversed.
+1
Did not intend to insinuate any of the aforementioned butthurt was unreasonable.
That's the general connotation with "butthurt"
I'm butthurt that we are discussing the connotation of "butthurt".

lk
+1
Last edited by Oxmyx on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:25:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by slym2none »

Oxmyx wrote:Does anybody else remember when XO became a black woman for a few issues?
Best X-O cover, ever.

Image



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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by possumgrease »

That was a good cover. Fire.

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by Oxmyx »

slym2none wrote:
Oxmyx wrote:Does anybody else remember when XO became a black woman for a few issues?
Best X-O cover, ever.

Image

-slym
Personally I thought the following issue of her dodging missiles was cooler.

And side note, it took me years to Dawn on me that was the skin of a mostly naked woman I was looking at.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Serious question...how accurate is this article?

Post by slym2none »

Oxmyx wrote:And side note, it took me years to Dawn on me that was the skin of a mostly naked woman I was looking at.
Image



-slym
Some people spend their whole lives believing in fairy tales, usually because they don't want to give up the fabulous prizes.


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