Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

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Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by valiantdude »

in an old thread someone posted recently. it linked to people arguing about copies of it like 15 years ago... holy smokes I missed that one back then....
So, where is it? that is one thing I have never seen which would complete my Valiant experience..
I feel like Ive got a couple more posts left before I sign off here for good...

anyone got a .pdf?

Super interested!

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Jrosen »

I'm interested as well. Does anyone have a copy?

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by magnus20009 »

valiantdude wrote:in an old thread someone posted recently. it linked to people arguing about copies of it like 15 years ago... holy smokes I missed that one back then....
So, where is it? that is one thing I have never seen which would complete my Valiant experience..
I feel like Ive got a couple more posts left before I sign off here for good...

anyone got a .pdf?

Super interested!
My copy is in my bookshelf. It is a hefty document - about an inch to maybe a bit more thick. I don’t recall any .pdf copy of it being made but a soft copy would be nice.

As I recall the book was originally made by a Valiant employee for the company’s internal use to keep complete track of the continuity of the universe and what happened in each issue published. Post valiant closing a few copies made it into collectors hands from an ex-employee(s). There was some arguing about whether those copies should replicated or not (as they are just spiral bound photocopies to begin with). The arguments being they should be kept as ultra rare collectibles vs a document everyone should have.

Eventually one person, I forget who, decide to make about copies (+/- 10) and sold them for pretty much the price of producing them and mailing them out. I think a good portion of the board members around near the start of the boards should have a copy.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Jrosen »

Magnus, is your copy bound?

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by depluto »

I have a copy of the Ultraverse bible if that helps.

:lol:

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by greg »

10 or 15 years ago, the topic of the Valiant Continuity Bible (VCB) was pretty controversial right here on this message board. Here's what I remember (and I may be mistaken on some of the details)...

It was an internal document for Valiant employees in the 1990s, so there are a few known copies (of the original). A couple of those former Valiant employees sold their copy to Valiant collectors, and understandably, the collectors may have paid quite a bit for such a rare piece of Valiant history. One of those Valiant collectors got permission from the former Valiant employee to scan the VCB and make a limited number of photocopies to sell at cost (not for profit), so that more Valiant collectors could read it. However, it's not clear whether the former Valiant employee had the right to authorize copies of something that was a previous "official" Valiant product (internal) to be photocopied, even for free.

So, the question was asked of Dinesh (new owner of Valiant as of mid-2005) whether the copies of the VCB could be made, and Dinesh was in the middle of battling for Valiant trademarks with another company that was trying extortion against Valiant (VEI) over those trademarks. To be very careful and serious about the trademark battle and VEI's protection of their copyrights and trademarks, Dinesh said it would be best if the VCB was not copied and distributed, even for free, because that would make it look like VEI wasn't serious about protecting their assets. Additionally, one of the Valiant collectors who paid a lot for a VCB was against the idea that others would be photocopied and reproduced because it could make his official copy indistinguishable from the photocopies.

However, the Valiant collector who had permission from the former Valiant employee to make photocopies (again, a questionable authorization, since the Valiant employee owned a copy but not the copyrights themselves) went ahead anyway and made photocopies and I believe either he or someone else may have scanned the VCB and created an electronic copy. Since ValiantFans.com was specifically asked by VEI not to allow the copies/scans to be distributed, this message board prohibited any posts advertising either the photocopies or the scans on this board, even if they were being given away for free.

Obviously, feelings were going to be hurt no matter how this played out, and they were. It has been a while since the subject of the VCB has come up... I think. :hm:

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by magnus20009 »

(Greg let me know if this in not allowed)

Here are a few photos of the book and different sections of it.

Cover
Image

Timeline
Image

Issue Synopsis
Image

Character Listing
Image

Index
Image

Story of the Geomancers:
Image

Image

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by ckb »

LOL! Photobucket took care of the censoring automagically!

There is not a single legal website I loathe more than photobucket. What a disaster.

I bought Kevin Van Hook's original Bible from him in January 2004 for $175. My memory is fuzzy but I think I sold it soon after in response to the photocopy controversy. Cannot remember to who....magnusr I think. Although the cover of magnus20009's copy looks very familiar.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by magnusr »

ckb wrote:Cannot remember to who....magnusr I think.
Yup

/Magnus

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by nycjadie »

I have one of these somewhere amongst my many boxes of crap. I remember it being encyclopedic, and not a casual read.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by greg »

nycjadie wrote:I remember it being encyclopedic, and not a casual read.
True, it was definitely a reference book, compiled by Valiant superfan Seaborn Adamson.
He was profiled in Valiant soon after:
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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Jrosen »

That's pretty awesome. Did Dinesh get a copy? Obviously, it wasn't used for VEI, and I don't know if the copywriter issues he was having in the beginning would apply to VEI of today.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by valiantdude »

Cool to see parts... were there any big revalations? Plot stuff or any unpublished stuff

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by aj583 »

OMG. I love Valiant history. I would devour this encyclopedia if I had it.


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Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by caxiotis »

magnus20009 wrote:(Greg let me know if this in not allowed)

Here are a few photos of the book and different sections of it.

Cover
Image

Timeline
Image

Issue Synopsis
Image

Character Listing
Image

Index
Image

Story of the Geomancers:
Image

Image
Mine looks a lot like this one, except there are no staples. I got mine from a board member, but can’t remember from whom. I am pretty sure mine is a photocopy
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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by buff-beardo »

A copy of it is one of my holy grails. I remember when I first came on here all those years ago. VCB was a hot topic! Back then, things were way different. Great times! Not to imply things aren’t good now, just was way more exciting back then. For a time, this place was VALIANT.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by magnus20009 »

caxiotis wrote:
Mine looks a lot like this one, except there are no staples. I got mine from a board member, but can’t remember from whom. I am pretty sure mine is a photocopy
There are no staples in the bound copy of the book. The lone staple is from the Story fo the Geomancers which was an 8 page insert but seperate from the physical book.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Jrosen »

Is there anyone willing to scan their copy so a pdf can be created?

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Aram »

Jrosen wrote:Is there anyone willing to scan their copy so a pdf can be created?
This seems like something that should definitely be submitted to the library of Congress at this point.
It's not that I don't have an avatar... I've just been working on it for the last few hundred years.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Jrosen »

Aram wrote:
Jrosen wrote:Is there anyone willing to scan their copy so a pdf can be created?
This seems like something that should definitely be submitted to the library of Congress at this point.
If someone trusts me to send it back, I'll gladly scan it into a pdf.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Besides the unauthorized copies aren't there several prints of this one?

I remember seeing something like "4th Print....#x of 10" on the cover of a VCB.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

greg wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:05:55 am
Obviously, feelings were going to be hurt no matter how this played out, and they were. It has been a while since the subject of the VCB has come up... I think. :hm:
Didn't the one who had actually made the copies then get banned from here?!?

I remember reading something like this on the CGC forum; in a thread from around 2008/2009.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by greg »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:48:15 am
greg wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:05:55 am
Obviously, feelings were going to be hurt no matter how this played out, and they were. It has been a while since the subject of the VCB has come up... I think. :hm:
Didn't the one who had actually made the copies then get banned from here?!?

I remember reading something like this on the CGC forum; in a thread from around 2008/2009.
It has been several years, but here's what I remember from 2006 (and yes, my memory may be faulty)...

Genuine copies of the Valiant Continuity Bible were owned by Bob Layton and Kevin VanHook. The first to sell his was Kevin VanHook, to a collector who paid top dollar for what is basically just a xeroxed book with a spiral binding. He paid a lot because of the rarity and the previous owner being a important part of Valiant history. There just weren't many original copies of the VCB.

The Bob Layton copy was sold second, and a couple years later, and the collector who bought it asked Bob if it would be "ok" to make copies of the book to sell at no profit. Bob said yes.

This is 10+ years after the book was made and after Acclaim went bankrupt. The contents of the Valiant Continuity Bible are copyrighted to Valiant (then to Acclaim, then to the legal system for the bankruptcy and ultimately to Valiant Entertainment who legally bought those rights). Unless Bob Layton owned those Valiant copyrights - he couldn't legally give permission to make copies of Valiant copyrighted material. Bob didn't own any rights.

At the time, Valiant Entertainment was fighting Dynamite over the Valiant trademarks because Valiant Entertainment had purchased all of the Valiant copyrights at the Acclaim bankruptcy auction. Dynamite was hiding behind a fake company called "VIP" and their lawyer, Michael Lovitz, not wanting anyone to know it was Nick Barrucci at Dynamite attempting extortion on the new Valiant copyright holders.

VIP would eventually put out a ridiculous sketchbook ("Valiant Sneak Peak" - yes, "peek" is misspelled) using Valiant names on hastily-drawn character sketches that had no connection to Valiant, and legally could never be similar to the Valiant characters of the 1990s even if VIP owned all the trademarks (which VIP never owned, they had filed, but anyone can file, and filing is not trademark approval). Remember that trademarks are just a single word or name, the copyrights are the likenesses, stories, characteristics, art, everything besides the name. It was pure extortion. Dynamite never admitted they were VIP, but there is 0% doubt.

Part of the lawsuit outcome (and VEI did win) was that VEI wouldn't officially say that Dynamite was VIP, but I am not part of VEI and I can say it all I want. This messageboard automatically changed "Dynamite" to "Dynamite (sucks!)" for at least 10 years after this occurred. Yes, Dynamite still sucks, but it has been a decade so that's like adding (he did it!) to every mention of O.J. Simpson - which has always been obvious for anyone paying attention.

At the time, Valiant Entertainment (VEI) was trying to prove in court that they actively pursued and protected their legitimately-obtained Valiant copyrights, so VEI did not need fans making copies of Valiant copyrighted material while VEI was fighting Dynamite (VIP) in court over trademarks that were associated with the Valiant copyrights.

The guy who wanted to make the copies of the VCB argued that he had permission from Bob Layton, but Bob Layton had no legal right to give permission at that time (or since).

There are likely more than two legitimate copies of the Valiant Continuity Bible beyond Kevin VanHook's and Bob Layton's copies, but there are also likely to be reproductions from the time period in this discussion and maybe anytime since then.

The guy who wanted to make the copies of the VCB was also involved in many other disagreements on the board over the years, which had nothing to do with the VCB, and his eventual ban from this messageboard was not about him offering copies of the VCB for no profit. If he was legally authorized to do so, that would have been a very cool fan project. He (and Bob Layton) had no legal authorization. His continuing to argue about it publicly and insist upon creating copyright violations was one part of the collective story of why he was banned, since this board would not be associated with illegal products specifically prohibited by VEI, but ultimately the guy was banned for a collection of reasons over several years - the VCB situation being only one of them.

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by betterthanezra »

Well your memory on this seems pretty solid to me :thumb:

That’s about how I remembered it

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Re: Valiant Continuity Bible.. where is it?

Post by magnusr »

greg wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:39:35 pm
There are likely more than two legitimate copies of the Valiant Continuity Bible beyond Kevin VanHook's and Bob Layton's copies
Should be several. The whole purpose was to have them as a reference for creators. I know of one more.

/Magnus


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