VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
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- TheFerg714
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
I found these, and I recall hearing Cullen Bunn (in a YouTuber video) saying something like, "Oh yea Valiant just lets me pick the character I wanted to write."kjjohanson wrote: Do you have actual citations for what you claim?
Paul Levitz: "Fred said, “Okay, we have a couple of these old series that we’re not doing anything with that are interesting names. You can do anything you want with them. Give it a read, and see which one appeals to you.” And The Visitor struck my fancy."
Tini Howard: "when I was approached about working with Valiant, this was exactly the sort of book I wanted to make. I got to pitch this wild structure for a four-issue miniseries that packs hundreds of years into under a hundred pages, and I’m so glad we’ve gotten to make it happen."
To be fair though, in Christopher Hastings and Magdalene Visaggio's cases, they were both approached specifically to write Q&W and Dr. Mirage respectively.
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Note Howard's comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.TheFerg714 wrote:I found these, and I recall hearing Cullen Bunn (in a YouTuber video) saying something like, "Oh yea Valiant just lets me pick the character I wanted to write.kjjohanson wrote: Do you have actual citations for what you claim?
Paul Levitz: "Fred said, “Okay, we have a couple of these old series that we’re not doing anything with that are interesting names. You can do anything you want with them. Give it a read, and see which one appeals to you.” And The Visitor struck my fancy."
Tini Howard: "when I was approached about working with Valiant, this was exactly the sort of book I wanted to make. I got to pitch this wild structure for a four-issue miniseries that packs hundreds of years into under a hundred pages, and I’m so glad we’ve gotten to make it happen."
To be fair though, in Christopher Hastings and Magdalene Visaggio's cases, they were both approached specifically to write Q&W and Dr. Mirage respectively.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Last edited by kjjohanson on Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:48:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- TheFerg714
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.kjjohanson wrote: Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie.
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.TheFerg714 wrote:To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.kjjohanson wrote: Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Classic KJ!kjjohanson wrote:
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC
Obviously I’m jumping all over that like a trampoline You must have been devestated when she said that, c’mon be honest?kjjohanson wrote: Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on.
Sure it isn’tkjjohanson wrote: but it's not the most important factor. .
This really is case closed on this debate if anyone still had any doubts.
Only yesterday some female POC was thanking Heather Antos for giving her her first variant cover job on Livewire. Let’s just think about this for a second, Heather Antos gets a job at Valiant and her primary thought isn’t ‘how can I improve sales and grow the fan base’, her thought is ‘how can I virtue signal and let people practice writing and art to build their CV working on Valiant books’!
Also yesterday on Twitter she’s asking ‘fans’ which conventions they want to see her at!? An editor!??
And no I don’t follow her on Twitter but her tweets are always in the timeline.
Valiant is just a stepping stone for her but tbh I don’t blame her I blame whoever hired her and whoever let’s her promote her own diversity agenda.
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!kjjohanson wrote:I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.TheFerg714 wrote:To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.kjjohanson wrote: Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?
The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?
We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!
- jaden_sai
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
What complete and utterThe issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas.
Keep me out of your "We,"We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!
don't claim to speak for me
Your left wing this, left wing that posts are tiresome
- AnarchoMambo
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Careful, DS1 has crafted a rather intricate reality around him. They are holding in for dear life with this model of how things work.
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
The fact that diversity is an important factor is paramount here, and I'm not sure it's clear that that alone outweighs quality. This also being based on the fact that Antos couldn't tell the difference between Rai and Bloodshot at ECCC last year. Just wow. She can say X, but what I heard was Y, and what I see ix Z, and the Y and Z are what I read. The X is aspirational on her part.kjjohanson wrote:Note Howard's comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.TheFerg714 wrote:I found these, and I recall hearing Cullen Bunn (in a YouTuber video) saying something like, "Oh yea Valiant just lets me pick the character I wanted to write.kjjohanson wrote: Do you have actual citations for what you claim?
Paul Levitz: "Fred said, “Okay, we have a couple of these old series that we’re not doing anything with that are interesting names. You can do anything you want with them. Give it a read, and see which one appeals to you.” And The Visitor struck my fancy."
Tini Howard: "when I was approached about working with Valiant, this was exactly the sort of book I wanted to make. I got to pitch this wild structure for a four-issue miniseries that packs hundreds of years into under a hundred pages, and I’m so glad we’ve gotten to make it happen."
To be fair though, in Christopher Hastings and Magdalene Visaggio's cases, they were both approached specifically to write Q&W and Dr. Mirage respectively.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
- AnarchoMambo
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
NYCJ, you’ve cited this one many times. Certainly an unfortunate incident. But said individual does not edit any of the far future Valiant titles, correct? Perhaps it is time to let that one go?
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
yeah I’m the crazy one in clown world! KJ confirmed what Antos openly said about her diversity agenda. But yes I’m holding on for dear life with my bizarre fantasies when in reality the company’s in great shape and the books are better than everAnarchoMambo wrote:Careful, DS1 has crafted a rather intricate reality around him. They are holding in for dear life with this model of how things work.
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Yeah NYCJ, stop crafting crazy realities, it’s super inconvenientAnarchoMambo wrote:NYCJ, you’ve cited this one many times. Certainly an unfortunate incident. But said individual does not edit any of the far future Valiant titles, correct? Perhaps it is time to let that one go?
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
I mean, if I was at Coca-Cola and sold Coca-Cola, and my head of sales said it was Pepsi, that would be an unfortunate incident, regardless of whether it was far in the future or present. While I personally can let it go, I'm not sure I could afford to do so if I worked at said company.AnarchoMambo wrote:NYCJ, you’ve cited this one many times. Certainly an unfortunate incident. But said individual does not edit any of the far future Valiant titles, correct? Perhaps it is time to let that one go?
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Ah, we're all arguing about 'the left wing agenda' again. How interesting it is to dive into that one again for the 13th month straight on a solicitations thread.
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t
- greg
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
But Coca-Cola doesn't also sell Pepsi. The difference between Rai and Bloodshot isn't like Coca-Cola and Pepsi. It's like Coke Zero and Coke Zero Sugar... one is the future of the other one.nycjadie wrote:I mean, if I was at Coca-Cola and sold Coca-Cola, and my head of sales said it was Pepsi, that would be an unfortunate incident, regardless of whether it was far in the future or present. While I personally can let it go, I'm not sure I could afford to do so if I worked at said company.AnarchoMambo wrote:NYCJ, you’ve cited this one many times. Certainly an unfortunate incident. But said individual does not edit any of the far future Valiant titles, correct? Perhaps it is time to let that one go?
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VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Wrong. I am pointing you out for constructing models for how things work that do not necessarily fit reality.Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Yeah NYCJ, stop crafting crazy realities, it’s super inconvenient
I am pointing out to NYCJ that he has cited, upwards of half a dozen times, an actual regrettable incident with an editor that really happened in the first month of employment at Valiant. Super unfortunate, but I suggested that we now just move on from that. And it was only a suggestion.
However in your case (DS1), I have no misconceptions that someone like yourself could ever move on from your theories. You seem to be tied to them very closely, and repeat them at just about every given opportunity, in spite of the many weaknesses of the premises on which your flimsy conclusions depend.
It may be useful to you to conflate these very different criticisms, but please notice that they were completely separate posts.
Last edited by AnarchoMambo on Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:51:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Thanks for proving that you're willing to ignore the facts that don't fit your particular view.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Classic KJ!kjjohanson wrote:
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC
Obviously I’m jumping all over that like a trampoline You must have been devestated when she said that, c’mon be honest?kjjohanson wrote: Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on.
Sure it isn’tkjjohanson wrote: but it's not the most important factor. .
This really is case closed on this debate if anyone still had any doubts.
Only yesterday some female POC was thanking Heather Antos for giving her her first variant cover job on Livewire. Let’s just think about this for a second, Heather Antos gets a job at Valiant and her primary thought isn’t ‘how can I improve sales and grow the fan base’, her thought is ‘how can I virtue signal and let people practice writing and art to build their CV working on Valiant books’!
Also yesterday on Twitter she’s asking ‘fans’ which conventions they want to see her at!? An editor!??
And no I don’t follow her on Twitter but her tweets are always in the timeline.
Valiant is just a stepping stone for her but tbh I don’t blame her I blame whoever hired her and whoever let’s her promote her own diversity agenda.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
QFTjaden_sai wrote:What complete and utterThe issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas.
Keep me out of your "We,"We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!
don't claim to speak for me
Your left wing this, left wing that posts are tiresome
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
No, that's not what I said. At all. What I pointed out is Antos said that that's not the primary factor in decision making. And predicted (correctly) that you would ignore the bits that weren't convenient for your particular view.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:yeah I’m the crazy one in clown world! KJ confirmed what Antos openly said about her diversity agenda. But yes I’m holding on for dear life with my bizarre fantasies when in reality the company’s in great shape and the books are better than everAnarchoMambo wrote:Careful, DS1 has crafted a rather intricate reality around him. They are holding in for dear life with this model of how things work.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
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Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?Dallow Spicer1 wrote:We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!kjjohanson wrote:I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.TheFerg714 wrote:To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.kjjohanson wrote: Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?
The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?
We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
-
- Rockin' out in Torquehalla
- Posts: 2241
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:16:04 pm
- Valiant fan since: back in the day xo#9
- Favorite character: Momo, xo turok
- Favorite title: Wrath of the eternal warrior
- Favorite writer: Joshua dysart
- Favorite artist: Robert Gill
- Location: out for lunch
Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
How about pushing faith when its done so terribly.kjjohanson wrote:Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?Dallow Spicer1 wrote:We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!kjjohanson wrote:I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.TheFerg714 wrote:To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.kjjohanson wrote: Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?
The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?
We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!
And I belive live wire lived through hw2 events just so she could have her own title.
I Miss the good old days.
- kjjohanson
- Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52:13 pm
- Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
- Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Location: Astoria, NY
- Contact:
Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
I think the last Faith title ended before Antos started. But either way, she didn't work on them. But even if she had, how is there a *message* of diversity there? There's a difference between featuring characters that are diverse and hitting you over the head with a message of diversity in the story.nonplayer wrote:How about pushing faith when its done so terribly.kjjohanson wrote:Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?Dallow Spicer1 wrote:We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!kjjohanson wrote:I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.TheFerg714 wrote:To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.kjjohanson wrote: Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?
The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?
We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!
And I belive live wire lived through hw2 events just so she could have her own title.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- nycjadie
- Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
- Posts: 7288
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:38:36 am
- Valiant fan since: Solar #1
- Favorite character: Rai
- Favorite title: Bloodshot
- Favorite writer: Kindt
- Favorite artist: Too many to choose.
- Location: Virginia
Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
You want metrics or you don’t. I really don’t care about Antos. I just call it as I seeAnarchoMambo wrote:Wrong. I am pointing you out for constructing models for how things work that do not necessarily fit reality. I am pointing out to NYCJ that he has cited, upwards of half a dozen times, an actual regrettable incident with an editor that really happened in the first month of employment at Valiant. Super unfortunate, but I suggested that we now just move on from that. And it was only a suggestion. However in your case, I have no misconceptions that someone like yourself could ever move on from your theories. You seem to be tied to them very closely, and repeat them at just about every given opportunity, in spite of the many weaknesses of the premises on which your flimsy conclusions depend.Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Yeah NYCJ, stop crafting crazy realities, it’s super inconvenient
It may be useful to you to conflate these very different criticisms, but please notice that they were completely separate posts.
It. No theories. No conspiracy. No politics. Doesn’t really matter whether I’ve noted it six times or not. It’s not like six years have gone by. Only 8 months. You can move on, others can decide not to. I don’t really care either way. My child is non-binary. I have others that aren’t. It’s all good. Personally, I’m not invested in any side of this comic company, so there really is no side for me to move on from. I have noticed a drop in overall quality in the books, and a move away from the flagship properties. While I don’t think that’s smart from a marketing standpoint, I’ve enjoyed the new variety.
But I get it. I’m not glowingly positive or negative. I’m just a reader. Since 1991. And it’s really hard to understand someone who doesn’t have polarizing opinions.
- nycjadie
- Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
- Posts: 7288
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:38:36 am
- Valiant fan since: Solar #1
- Favorite character: Rai
- Favorite title: Bloodshot
- Favorite writer: Kindt
- Favorite artist: Too many to choose.
- Location: Virginia
Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Point taken about origin, but maybe it’s more like Coke and Sprite. The flavors are so different, that it’s more than just sugar, especially when you are there to sell one of them, and have prepped for it.greg wrote:But Coca-Cola doesn't also sell Pepsi. The difference between Rai and Bloodshot isn't like Coca-Cola and Pepsi. It's like Coke Zero and Coke Zero Sugar... one is the future of the other one.nycjadie wrote:I mean, if I was at Coca-Cola and sold Coca-Cola, and my head of sales said it was Pepsi, that would be an unfortunate incident, regardless of whether it was far in the future or present. While I personally can let it go, I'm not sure I could afford to do so if I worked at said company.AnarchoMambo wrote:NYCJ, you’ve cited this one many times. Certainly an unfortunate incident. But said individual does not edit any of the far future Valiant titles, correct? Perhaps it is time to let that one go?
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- Rockin' out in Torquehalla
- Posts: 2241
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:16:04 pm
- Valiant fan since: back in the day xo#9
- Favorite character: Momo, xo turok
- Favorite title: Wrath of the eternal warrior
- Favorite writer: Joshua dysart
- Favorite artist: Robert Gill
- Location: out for lunch
Re: VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT January 2020 Solicitations
Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.[/quote]
To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie. [/quote]
I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?[/quote]
We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!
The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?
We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple![/quote]
Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?[/quote]
How about pushing faith when its done so terribly.
And I belive live wire lived through hw2 events just so she could have her own title.[/quote]
I think the last Faith title ended before Antos started. But either way, she didn't work on them. But even if she had, how is there a *message* of diversity there? There's a difference between featuring characters that are diverse and hitting you over the head with a message of diversity in the story.[/quote]
The message is everyone is doing it. And a company that cancels good reader numbers to deversify when they didnt need to is the message. Common now!
I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.[/quote]
To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.
Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie. [/quote]
I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.
Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?
Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?[/quote]
We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!
The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?
We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple![/quote]
Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?[/quote]
How about pushing faith when its done so terribly.
And I belive live wire lived through hw2 events just so she could have her own title.[/quote]
I think the last Faith title ended before Antos started. But either way, she didn't work on them. But even if she had, how is there a *message* of diversity there? There's a difference between featuring characters that are diverse and hitting you over the head with a message of diversity in the story.[/quote]
The message is everyone is doing it. And a company that cancels good reader numbers to deversify when they didnt need to is the message. Common now!
I Miss the good old days.