VALIANT MAY 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES

[Dallow Spicer1]

Ultimately it’s a business. If the creative people can’t work within that framework then the business will struggle. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree but no hard feelings

[AnarchoMambo]

What I truly do not understand is how any one of us can have any idea of profits, margins, overhead expenses, etc. with regards to comic publishing. Dino posted here that Valiant had been “wildly successful“ during his tenure, and I took that to be at least partially in the financial sense.

However, as a fan, I have an enormous idea about entertainment value. I feel that this dipped about a year ago but has remarkably improved, and when you add in my brand loyalty to Valiant, then I am a pretty happy fan.

Doesn’t mean everyone else must agree, or even see my point of view. But I do know that I have no other means of evaluating Valiant, other than the accumulated subjective feeling of satisfaction I receive from reading the work and sharing it with others.

Not sure how notoriety of the creators, personal tweets by editors, naming practices for books, or a pure guess about whether or not a publisher is turning a profit, could possibly affect any fan’s appreciation of that publisher’s entertainment value.

[jxm640]

Sad numbers

Actually they're not really sad if you look at the market share of all the other publishers. Valiant has the third highest average per title behind Marvel & DC.

But thanks for continually chiming in with your persistent negativity. Considering you don't buy any Valiant titles any more, why are you here?

Id be getting titles if they didnt end the ones I was getting.
Ladoth Im obviously getting. Bloodshot RS I dropped that crap. And Im not going to invest in characters I dont like. And DMG is pushing a bunch I dont like.

Let’s think about these numbers and what Valiant’s current business model is?

Somehow Bloodshot Rising Spirit pulls in more numbers than LADOTH, is this simply brand recognition? If the titles were ‘Rising Spirit’ and ‘Harbinger:LADOTH’ then would the numbers look the same still?

Secondly, using unknown writers with no track record of decent sales on B and C list characters, what’s the best that can happen? What’s the aim Are they in the profit making business or the business of promoting left wing writers? Chief editor Robert Myers was supporting Aubrey Sitterson’s in his tweets yesterday, Sitterson who was taken off GI Joe after some left wing extreme shenanigans. I mean what is this? Some big left wing clique, should we expect him on a Valiant book in the near future? Myers promotes Dark Horse books more than he does Valiant, he seems to be like that last dude who he replaced (who was always promoting other companies books and had zero interest in Valiant).

Is it any surprise the sales are poor when the people in charge are making such bizarre decisions?

How about getting the best writer and artist we can afford and put them on an A list book (XO, Harbinger, Bloodshot)... let’s try that for a change!

This is what you're missing: You can have a recognized Valiant property that does not currently have a monthly book. You can have recognized quality talent whose rates you can afford. That *doesn't* mean that the talent is going to have an interesting pitch for what to do with that property. Even under the old guard, the driving philosophy was "best idea wins." If a professional in the field has a good idea for something innovative that they're passionate about, I think that's going to win out over a recognized name that you attach to a title because you think that that title should be published. Every long-time Marvel and DC title has runs of the book that is lackluster, because they were published in a time where the companies thought they had to continue publishing the book every month just to keep the book alive.

How about this...A list character + top level talent + good idea = a book Valiant puts out ? Let’s give this a try!

Surely it a top talent doesn’t have a good concept for, say, XO then you just move onto the next talent ? Surely that’s achievable.

Yes the old guard did best idea wins but I’m advocating we do that on our best properties as we only have 6-7 books per month...so let’s not use up a spot on say, Forgotten Queen?

Again, let’s look at a strategy that the actual books themselves can *drive sales* rather than relying on marketing ploys.

Anyone with any ideas on actually driving sales upwards?

Make a movie, release a video game, make your brand more recognisable to mainstream media.

[Dallow Spicer1]

What I truly do not understand is how any one of us can have any idea of profits, margins, overhead expenses, etc. with regards to comic publishing. Dino posted here that Valiant had been “wildly successful“ during his tenure, and I took that to be at least partially in the financial sense.

However, as a fan, I have an enormous idea about entertainment value. I feel that this dipped about a year ago but has remarkably improved, and when you add in my brand loyalty to Valiant, then I am a pretty happy fan.

Doesn’t mean everyone else must agree, or even see my point of view. But I do know that I have no other means of evaluating Valiant, other than the accumulated subjective feeling of satisfaction I receive from reading the work and sharing it with others.

Not sure how notoriety of the creators, personal tweets by editors, naming practices for books, or a pure guess about whether or not a publisher is turning a profit, could possibly affect any fan’s appreciation of that publisher’s entertainment value.

The topic of the discussion was ‘sales’ so .....

[IMJ]

Make a movie, release a video game, make your brand more recognisable to mainstream media.

True, but even then most publishers would only be cultivating new buyers from within the current pool of existing comic book buyers, which is a diminishing body of consumers. The real trick, as it has always been, is to cultivate a new readership. Comic book sales are down everywhere, and has been diminishing since people began recognizing agenda publishing rather than accepting it - maybe about ten years of declines that are now a significant readership difference from the start of the decline.

I say this because given the diminished monthly readership for new comics, if doing all of the things you said here resulted in increased comic book sales, then we'd have it already via Marvel. The Matrix was arguably the first fully immersible multi-media IP, and that resulted in a lot of content including maybe one comic book IIRC. Unfortunately I see the patterns for new publishing following the Matrix pattern where a comic book might exist, but it's just a very small piece of apocrypha given the greater media content.

Comics need to cost no more than $2.50 and be visible to kids in checkout lanes and in key stores where kids can lay eyes on them. And it needs to be inclusive of kids whose Gen X parents would not normally have indoctrinated them into the hobby.

The "diminished readership" argument has been a part of the hobby since basically forever. And the hobby has always survived. But this belief that "the hobby has always survived" has become laissez-faire in that readers are just letting publishers do what they do and letting go. Given the numbers we see on places like the Comic Chron, it could actually be the death of hobby in print.

[AnarchoMambo]

The topic of the discussion was ‘sales’ so .....

That’s a great point. And I suppose all of those things you mentioned could effect sales in some way? I think not, but perhaps the case could be made?

[Chiclo]

Would the names Tim Seeley and Brett Booth on Bloodshot be satisfactory for recognizable names on a flagship title?

Is it the naming on the Harada series or the talent involved? I am not sure that having Harbinger in the title would significantly increase sales.

The writers on the less marquee Valiant titles were not unknown to me, and I appreciated their work elsewhere nearly as much as I like them with Valiant. And I agreed with many here that Valiant should not be afraid to expand their title characters, so I’m glad that they have chosen to do that this year.

I’m sorry that I don’t follow Mr Meyers’ tweets so I am not as knowledgeable about his personal views. But I do read the books and I do approve of the direction they are taking, so for me being a Valiant fan has been really fun lately.

I recognize the name Brett Booth and often avoid titles that bear it.

[kjjohanson]

Ultimately it’s a business. If the creative people can’t work within that framework then the business will struggle. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree but no hard feelings

Creative people *do* work within a framework. Just not the framework you'd like to see. I've read plenty of books from Marvel that were obviously driven by what Marketing wanted written rather than what the writers wanted to write. It got old quick and it's why those books didn't appeal to me and why I no longer read Marvel's books.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Ultimately it’s a business. If the creative people can’t work within that framework then the business will struggle. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree but no hard feelings

Creative people *do* work within a framework. Just not the framework you'd like to see. I've read plenty of books from Marvel that were obviously driven by what Marketing wanted written rather than what the writers wanted to write. It got old quick and it's why those books didn't appeal to me and why I no longer read Marvel's books.

I haven’t at any point advocated marketing people driving anything? I think you’re reading what you want to read into my posts?

I did a simple sum (overly simplistic I know) in an earlier post...that’s my basic position.

[kinggirlfriend]

I recognize the name Brett Booth and often avoid titles that bear it.

Me too.

Recognizable doesn't mean quality. They're starting to pull from a well of talent that looks more '90s era to me, like Whilce Poratcio and Ken Lashley. They don't fit Valiant, IMO. They look more like Marvel/DC artists, or early Image artists. They look very comic booky in a bad way.

Slightly OT, did anyone else notice there's no upcoming trade paperback collection for BLOODSHOT RISING SPIRIT on Amazon? I realize it's a bit far out and only the Diamond solicitations matter not Amazon, but Valiant's been pretty consistent with posting their upcoming books there. I do appreciate that even Valiant recognizes that book is complete garbage.

[kjjohanson]

Ultimately it’s a business. If the creative people can’t work within that framework then the business will struggle. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree but no hard feelings

Creative people *do* work within a framework. Just not the framework you'd like to see. I've read plenty of books from Marvel that were obviously driven by what Marketing wanted written rather than what the writers wanted to write. It got old quick and it's why those books didn't appeal to me and why I no longer read Marvel's books.

I haven’t at any point advocated marketing people driving anything? I think you’re reading what you want to read into my posts?

I did a simple sum (overly simplistic I know) in an earlier post...that’s my basic position.

You advocated having writers write a series that might be considered more bankable than the series that they're publishing, which were likely due to the writer having a pitch for those particular properties rather than one of the more high-profile properties.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Ultimately it’s a business. If the creative people can’t work within that framework then the business will struggle. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree but no hard feelings

Creative people *do* work within a framework. Just not the framework you'd like to see. I've read plenty of books from Marvel that were obviously driven by what Marketing wanted written rather than what the writers wanted to write. It got old quick and it's why those books didn't appeal to me and why I no longer read Marvel's books.

I haven’t at any point advocated marketing people driving anything? I think you’re reading what you want to read into my posts?

I did a simple sum (overly simplistic I know) in an earlier post...that’s my basic position.

You advocated having writers write a series that might be considered more bankable than the series that they're publishing, which were likely due to the writer having a pitch for those particular properties rather than one of the more high-profile properties.

Kind of. But that’s nothing to do with Marketing people doing jiggery pokery to boost sales. Why would you not want top creators on our best characters?

Let’s use an analogy of a football team. I’m saying get the best players playing in their best positions. At the moment it *sometimes* feels like Valiant is picking its team based on who the coach likes regardless of their unproven or mediocre skills and those players playing wherever they feel like!

[kinggirlfriend]

For the limited amount of books Valiant publishes it's mind boggling that they don't give all but one slot to A-list characters. I agree that Dr Mirage and Punk Mambo are A-listers. But War-Monger and whatever is KIllers are not. Their branding of the newer titles stinks. I won't read FORGOTTEN QUEEN but is there a reason it wasn't titled WAR-MONGER? Other than confusing the market with WAR-MOTHER? Is there an in-story reason behind it?

[kjjohanson]

Ultimately it’s a business. If the creative people can’t work within that framework then the business will struggle. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree but no hard feelings

Creative people *do* work within a framework. Just not the framework you'd like to see. I've read plenty of books from Marvel that were obviously driven by what Marketing wanted written rather than what the writers wanted to write. It got old quick and it's why those books didn't appeal to me and why I no longer read Marvel's books.

I haven’t at any point advocated marketing people driving anything? I think you’re reading what you want to read into my posts?

I did a simple sum (overly simplistic I know) in an earlier post...that’s my basic position.

You advocated having writers write a series that might be considered more bankable than the series that they're publishing, which were likely due to the writer having a pitch for those particular properties rather than one of the more high-profile properties.

Kind of. But that’s nothing to do with Marketing people doing jiggery pokery to boost sales. Why would you not want top creators on our best characters?

Let’s use an analogy of a football team. I’m saying get the best players playing in their best positions. At the moment it *sometimes* feels like Valiant is picking its team based on who the coach likes regardless of their unproven or mediocre skills and those players playing wherever they feel like!

I don't think you can compare a creative situation to football. I'd like top talent *if they have a pitch that they're passionate about.* "Best characters" is subjective. I think people consider some characters better because creators have done something interesting with those characters.

The bottom line is that you're not going to get top work from creators if they don't have a compelling vision for a character.