VALIANT MARCH 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES

[kinggirlfriend]

HW2 makes no sense. Harbinger Renegade makes no sense. Those last 3 issues of Bloodshot Salvation make no sense. Ninja-K and Shadowman were both great and ended too abruptly. X-O is just pathetic and pointless. I actually liked Gen Zero but I agree with the people that say it was the wrong direction to take. Way too far left field of what Dysart had built. War Mother did absolutely nothing for me. It wasn't bad just ho-hum. I liked all the Faith series so far but they are all kind of slight and not terribly deep.

[hawkeyeps]

fanatical Dysart worship

[GammaJosh]

fanatical Dysart worship

OK, if anyone deserves it, it's him. Dysart's Harbinger is in my mind by far the strongest run that VEI has published. I still don't think anyone could have replaced him, especially after Imperium ending so abruptly, without some backlash. I had no problem enjoying Gen Zero and Renegade.

[Ryan]

Yeah maybe these numbers are great and there are thousands of hidden sales out there that aren't reported. I certainly don't have any knowledge on the economics of running a comic book company. Maybe 4,000 - 7,000 orders from comic shops is great and profitable?

Everyone here loves Valiant, but the negative buzz is not helpful. Maybe a little mental reset is in order to take the new material as it is without other baggage affecting your expectations and opinions.

Condescending much? Lol. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and art is subjective. I don't think anyone needs to be psycho-probed (Magnus reference) to tell whether they like a comic book or not. I also don't think the negativity is overwhelming on this message board, if anything the majority of the fans here are extremely forgiving and accepting of whatever Valiant does.

The fact that some people have extremely high (unrealistic?) expectations for Valiant to be producing the very best comic books in the industry (we've seen them do it) and be a major player in the game is a good thing. If you love everything then that's great, just enjoy it and don't worry about other's opinions, or defend what you think is great about it and prove the 'haters' wrong. Some spirited debate might liven things up a bit. Where's MOTA when you need him?

[Phantom]

Yeah maybe these numbers are great and there are thousands of hidden sales out there that aren't reported. I certainly don't have any knowledge on the economics of running a comic book company. Maybe 4,000 - 7,000 orders from comic shops is great and profitable?

I always wonder about the economics of Valiant (even more so about Lion forge Catalyst line). International sales must be higher than we think (Not included in sales numbers).

I always thought international sales might be low, but now think they must be 1/2 again or more or listed Usa Canada sales.

I am liking the books, but to be honest cannot keep on top of all the mini series. Easy to pick up trade or hardcover online than get floppys. I do buy floppys, but if I have missed first issue of mini - just don't bother. I have standing order at comic shop - but cannot Keep on top of all the changes in titles.
.
Xo Ninjak shadowman and catalyst prime superb (now at issue 19 ) i ask once and get the series. I missed so many mini series unfortunatly, but managed punk mambo which I am super happy with.

I like the different aspects of the valiant line. I take each book for what it is. I read faith HC right after Timewalker HC, at first I was mega disappointed in faith, but then I read the rest as the book it was supposed to be read, its not timewalker, its not xo manowar.That is way I like valiant, it's not just same characters in different costumes.

[Ryan]

I always wonder about the economics of Valiant (even more so about Lion forge Catalyst line). International sales must be higher than we think (Not included in sales numbers).

I always thought international sales might be low, but now think they must be 1/2 again or more or listed Usa Canada sales.

It's possible. My theory on the economics of these companies is that they have some deep-pocket investors in entertainment who are willing to run the comic book side at a loss on the chance that they can strike it rich with a MCU type of success. I could be totally wrong.

I am liking the books, but to be honest cannot keep on top of all the mini series. Easy to pick up trade or hardcover online than get floppys. I do buy floppys, but if I have missed first issue of mini - just don't bother. I have standing order at comic shop - but cannot Keep on top of all the changes in titles.
.
Xo Ninjak shadowman and catalyst prime superb (now at issue 19 ) i ask once and get the series. I missed so many mini series unfortunatly, but managed punk mambo which I am super happy with.

I like the different aspects of the valiant line. I take each book for what it is. I read faith HC right after Timewalker HC, at first I was mega disappointed in faith, but then I read the rest as the book it was supposed to be read, its not timewalker, its not xo manowar.That is way I like valiant, it's not just same characters in different costumes.

Good points, I think that's the Valiant ideal, have a universe of super hero books that blend action/adventure with another genre, each one filling a different niche (horror, teen drama, sci-fi, martial arts, etc.) while keeping a unified feel.

[Shadowman99]

Double post

[Shadowman99]

I just blasted through the last two years of Valiant comics within the past few weeks, as I'd moved, gotten busy with life, and then finally had time to get caught up. Based on the posts I've been reading since Dinesh was ousted, I expected to be in for a real crap-fest. Well, I wasn't. I legitimately enjoyed pretty much everything.

Kindt's X-O, Bloodshot:Salvation, , Ninja-K, the latest Shadowman:all great.

I actually really enjoyed Gen Zero and Renegade, and chalk up all the bad feelings about those books to fanatical Dysart worship. Don't get me wrong, Dysart is great, but there's nothing wrong with these other takes on Harbinger. Everyone has a hard on for hating Rafer Roberts because he replaced Van Lente and then Dysart, and because the art on the first arc of A+A was intolerably modern and cartoony to some.

Even Harbinger Wars II was not bad in my opinion. It didn't live up to the quality of Secret Weapons, but it wasn't the debacle that everyone made it out to be. Dinesh and Heisserer had other plans for the book; corporate *SQUEE* messed up those plans, but that doesn't mean Kindt totally dropped the ball. The story was fine if not great.

Honestly, War Mother and Faith and the Future Force were the only series I read that felt like a let down. I was excited for War Mother based on the Mack covers and because I was interested in 4002, but the story didn't do much for me. And regarding Faith and the Future Force, there was not a lot story for four issues, and hence not a lot of bang for the buck. It felt inconsequential and unnecessary. So there are 8 issues over a few years that I felt were just ok.

Everyone understandably loves and misses Dinesh. Dino rules. But I think the emotions following his ouster, combined with the biases of fans who are maybe driven a little too much by nostalgia, have lead to a bad attitude towards the newer comics. And don't forget we now have some Trump-era political division and animosity in the mix, with people not happy about overweight super-heroines and female editors with opinions.

Everyone here loves Valiant, but the negative buzz is not helpful. Maybe a little mental reset is in order to take the new material as it is without other baggage affecting your expectations and opinions.

I'll wait while you get your knives out.

Breath of fresh air from Josh's OP there. I often feel like one of the few people on the board that doesn't seem to unanimously hate everything, and it's nice to see I'm not alone. Despite the ongoing DMG *SQUEE* bringing the mood down, I've been enjoying the comics for the most part. I didn't like the first two issues of Livewire and Rising Spirit, but it sounds as though at least Livewire picks up in a few issue's time, based on things said here. I still don't understand people's dislike of Kindt's XO; I've enjoyed every issue I've read so far (up to #23?). I also enjoyed Faith and the Future Force. In fact, probably the only Faith title I've enjoyed so far. Bit of lighthearted fun, nothing serious there, so why take it seriously? They were trying to defeat a time-eating pen drive for God's sake... I'm also no 'Dysart worshipper', but Gen 0 and Renegades just fell short of the quality storytelling that Harbinger and Imperium delivered. Not terrible, but they didn't reach the high bar that those earlier titles set.


Salvation, Ninja K and Shadowman were all really good. Hoping Killers follows up on at least the same quality that Ninja-K delivered.

Looking forward to seeing what comes next, such as the XO title starting later in the year, Killers, Fallen world, Psi-Lords... Let's see what the new Valiant team can do.

[syzhang28]

I just blasted through the last two years of Valiant comics within the past few weeks, as I'd moved, gotten busy with life, and then finally had time to get caught up. Based on the posts I've been reading since Dinesh was ousted, I expected to be in for a real crap-fest. Well, I wasn't. I legitimately enjoyed pretty much everything.

Kindt's X-O, Bloodshot:Salvation, , Ninja-K, the latest Shadowman:all great.

I actually really enjoyed Gen Zero and Renegade, and chalk up all the bad feelings about those books to fanatical Dysart worship. Don't get me wrong, Dysart is great, but there's nothing wrong with these other takes on Harbinger. Everyone has a hard on for hating Rafer Roberts because he replaced Van Lente and then Dysart, and because the art on the first arc of A+A was intolerably modern and cartoony to some.

Even Harbinger Wars II was not bad in my opinion. It didn't live up to the quality of Secret Weapons, but it wasn't the debacle that everyone made it out to be. Dinesh and Heisserer had other plans for the book; corporate *SQUEE* messed up those plans, but that doesn't mean Kindt totally dropped the ball. The story was fine if not great.

Honestly, War Mother and Faith and the Future Force were the only series I read that felt like a let down. I was excited for War Mother based on the Mack covers and because I was interested in 4002, but the story didn't do much for me. And regarding Faith and the Future Force, there was not a lot story for four issues, and hence not a lot of bang for the buck. It felt inconsequential and unnecessary. So there are 8 issues over a few years that I felt were just ok.

Everyone understandably loves and misses Dinesh. Dino rules. But I think the emotions following his ouster, combined with the biases of fans who are maybe driven a little too much by nostalgia, have lead to a bad attitude towards the newer comics. And don't forget we now have some Trump-era political division and animosity in the mix, with people not happy about overweight super-heroines and female editors with opinions.

Everyone here loves Valiant, but the negative buzz is not helpful. Maybe a little mental reset is in order to take the new material as it is without other baggage affecting your expectations and opinions.

I'll wait while you get your knives out.

Breath of fresh air from Josh's OP there. I often feel like one of the few people on the board that doesn't seem to unanimously hate everything, and it's nice to see I'm not alone. Despite the ongoing DMG *SQUEE* bringing the mood down, I've been enjoying the comics for the most part. I didn't like the first two issues of Livewire and Rising Spirit, but it sounds as though at least Livewire picks up in a few issue's time, based on things said here. I still don't understand people's dislike of Kindt's XO; I've enjoyed every issue I've read so far (up to #23?). I also enjoyed Faith and the Future Force. In fact, probably the only Faith title I've enjoyed so far. Bit of lighthearted fun, nothing serious there, so why take it seriously? They were trying to defeat a time-eating pen drive for God's sake... I'm also no 'Dysart worshipper', but Gen 0 and Renegades just fell short of the quality storytelling that Harbinger and Imperium delivered. Not terrible, but they didn't reach the high bar that those earlier titles set.


Salvation, Ninja K and Shadowman were all really good. Hoping Killers follows up on at least the same quality that Ninja-K delivered.

Looking forward to seeing what comes next, such as the XO title starting later in the year, Killers, Fallen world, Psi-Lords... Let's see what the new Valiant team can do.

As someone that has been accused of hating everything after Dino, (I don't, I just think it's a massive step down in quality and I don't like the intention of the new people in charge) I think the problem people have is that the books you both say you like were built by Dino, Warren, Hunter etc. (the og VEI crew). Books like Kindt's X-O, Ninja K, Bloodshot:Salvation and Shadowman (which dino announced 5 story arcs for, not sure where the other two disappeared to since the book was cancelled). And the books people don't like are all the ones that were made after the og vei crew were gone - Livewire, Rising Spirit - or in the case of Harbinger wars 2 were changed completely. Not that everything dino and crew did was perfect but even their misses - renegades, gen zero, war mother - are so much better than the new books.

[Shadowman99]

I just blasted through the last two years of Valiant comics within the past few weeks, as I'd moved, gotten busy with life, and then finally had time to get caught up. Based on the posts I've been reading since Dinesh was ousted, I expected to be in for a real crap-fest. Well, I wasn't. I legitimately enjoyed pretty much everything.

Kindt's X-O, Bloodshot:Salvation, , Ninja-K, the latest Shadowman:all great.

I actually really enjoyed Gen Zero and Renegade, and chalk up all the bad feelings about those books to fanatical Dysart worship. Don't get me wrong, Dysart is great, but there's nothing wrong with these other takes on Harbinger. Everyone has a hard on for hating Rafer Roberts because he replaced Van Lente and then Dysart, and because the art on the first arc of A+A was intolerably modern and cartoony to some.

Even Harbinger Wars II was not bad in my opinion. It didn't live up to the quality of Secret Weapons, but it wasn't the debacle that everyone made it out to be. Dinesh and Heisserer had other plans for the book; corporate *SQUEE* messed up those plans, but that doesn't mean Kindt totally dropped the ball. The story was fine if not great.

Honestly, War Mother and Faith and the Future Force were the only series I read that felt like a let down. I was excited for War Mother based on the Mack covers and because I was interested in 4002, but the story didn't do much for me. And regarding Faith and the Future Force, there was not a lot story for four issues, and hence not a lot of bang for the buck. It felt inconsequential and unnecessary. So there are 8 issues over a few years that I felt were just ok.

Everyone understandably loves and misses Dinesh. Dino rules. But I think the emotions following his ouster, combined with the biases of fans who are maybe driven a little too much by nostalgia, have lead to a bad attitude towards the newer comics. And don't forget we now have some Trump-era political division and animosity in the mix, with people not happy about overweight super-heroines and female editors with opinions.

Everyone here loves Valiant, but the negative buzz is not helpful. Maybe a little mental reset is in order to take the new material as it is without other baggage affecting your expectations and opinions.

I'll wait while you get your knives out.

Breath of fresh air from Josh's OP there. I often feel like one of the few people on the board that doesn't seem to unanimously hate everything, and it's nice to see I'm not alone. Despite the ongoing DMG *SQUEE* bringing the mood down, I've been enjoying the comics for the most part. I didn't like the first two issues of Livewire and Rising Spirit, but it sounds as though at least Livewire picks up in a few issue's time, based on things said here. I still don't understand people's dislike of Kindt's XO; I've enjoyed every issue I've read so far (up to #23?). I also enjoyed Faith and the Future Force. In fact, probably the only Faith title I've enjoyed so far. Bit of lighthearted fun, nothing serious there, so why take it seriously? They were trying to defeat a time-eating pen drive for God's sake... I'm also no 'Dysart worshipper', but Gen 0 and Renegades just fell short of the quality storytelling that Harbinger and Imperium delivered. Not terrible, but they didn't reach the high bar that those earlier titles set.


Salvation, Ninja K and Shadowman were all really good. Hoping Killers follows up on at least the same quality that Ninja-K delivered.

Looking forward to seeing what comes next, such as the XO title starting later in the year, Killers, Fallen world, Psi-Lords... Let's see what the new Valiant team can do.

As someone that has been accused of hating everything after Dino, (I don't, I just think it's a massive step down in quality and I don't like the intention of the new people in charge) I think the problem people have is that the books you both say you like were built by Dino, Warren, Hunter etc. (the og VEI crew). Books like Kindt's X-O, Ninja K, Bloodshot:Salvation and Shadowman (which dino announced 5 story arcs for, not sure where the other two disappeared to since the book was cancelled). And the books people don't like are all the ones that were made after the og vei crew were gone - Livewire, Rising Spirit - or in the case of Harbinger wars 2 were changed completely. Not that everything dino and crew did was perfect but even their misses - renegades, gen zero, war mother - are so much better than the new books.

I've only read the first two issues of both Livewire and BS:RS and haven't been impressed by them, but I've got my next stack of VEI coming through the post within the next week or so, so I'll see what I think of the stuff released between then and now.

I'm aware that we're smack-bang in the middle of the transition period now, which is why I'm interested to see how the rest of the first batch of 'new' books turn out: Incursion, Fallen World, Psi-Lords, Killers, and whatever else comes by the end of the year.

On the whole I'd like to hope that by the time January hits we'll all have a better idea of whether VEI will manage to pick up the ball and run, or fumble and fall in slow-mo...

[TheFerg714]

Based on the posts I've been reading since Dinesh was ousted, I expected to be in for a real crap-fest. Well, I wasn't. I legitimately enjoyed pretty much everything.

I think you've seen a lot of negativity because, even though the books are still (imo) better than most Marvel and DC series, it's been a big step down from the Dino era, although it's complicated. I've been relatively happy with 2019 so far, and the rest of the year looks bright. If getting Dan Abnett onboard is any indication, editorial has got their eyes on the ball.

Kindt's X-O, Bloodshot:Salvation, , Ninja-K, the latest Shadowman:all great.

These were all, for the most part, Dinesh era books, and I agree that, for the most part, all of these are great. I do have problems with all of them though, which seem to all stem from the post-Dino era. Kindt's X-O started out great, but turned into the definition of wasted potential once Aric returned to Earth. Those last few arcs were boring and inconsequential. Salvation had a great opening arc, but that second arc was completely pointless, and the final arc was rushed. I loved Ninja-K and Shadowman, but both ended after only three arcs! I know the sales were bad, but the writers obviously had more planned and were forced to rush. This wouldn't have been so bad if they weren't replaced with books of lesser quality.

I actually really enjoyed Gen Zero and Renegade, and chalk up all the bad feelings about those books to fanatical Dysart worship. Don't get me wrong, Dysart is great, but there's nothing wrong with these other takes on Harbinger. Everyone has a hard on for hating Rafer Roberts because he replaced Van Lente and then Dysart, and because the art on the first arc of A+A was intolerably modern and cartoony to some.

First of all, all of this happened under Dino's leadership. Secondly, I actually agree with most of this. I think people should have given Rafer Roberts the benefit of the doubt. Dysart doesn't own these characters. With that said, Dysart wrote a nearly perfect story around these characters, and for Valiant to decide to go a different direction was honestly silly and obviously made people raise their eyebrows before ever picking up the book. All of this wouldn't even matter if Renegade was great! I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. I know I'm in the minority, but I loved the Massacre and Alpha issues, as well as Solomon. I was all in for this new series, but I had to make peace with the fact that it had nothing on Dysart's vision. However, the problems with Renegade didn't end with storytelling. The main problem is that it only had two arcs, with a four month break inbetween, seemingly to set up Harbinger Wars II, which never came to fruition. It was just sloppy execution. Gen. Zero on the other hand, sucked imo, as well as Roberts' A+A.

Even Harbinger Wars II was not bad in my opinion. It didn't live up to the quality of Secret Weapons, but it wasn't the debacle that everyone made it out to be. Dinesh and Heisserer had other plans for the book; corporate *SQUEE* messed up those plans, but that doesn't mean Kindt totally dropped the ball. The story was fine if not great.

I actually agree with this, though I wouldn't come close to using the word 'great.'

Honestly, War Mother and Faith and the Future Force were the only series I read that felt like a let down. I was excited for War Mother based on the Mack covers and because I was interested in 4002, but the story didn't do much for me. And regarding Faith and the Future Force, there was not a lot story for four issues, and hence not a lot of bang for the buck. It felt inconsequential and unnecessary. So there are 8 issues over a few years that I felt were just ok.

Future Force and War Mother also came out during the Dinesh era.

Everyone understandably loves and misses Dinesh. Dino rules. But I think the emotions following his ouster, combined with the biases of fans who are maybe driven a little too much by nostalgia, have lead to a bad attitude towards the newer comics. And don't forget we now have some Trump-era political division and animosity in the mix, with people not happy about overweight super-heroines and female editors with opinions.

Overall, I'm relatively happy with Valiant right now. It was a s*** show last year, but I think almost everything turned out okay. I think you're a little confused about when the "DMG era" began though. X-O, Salvation, Ninja-K, Shadowman, Q&W were all Dino-era projects that ended up being cancelled by DMG. Faith: Dreamside and Britannia: Lost Eagles of Rome were also published after the buyout, but were probably (mostly) completed before the buyout. "Beyond Valiant" was DMG's first big push in late 2018 which consisted of Dreamside, Bloodshot Rising Spirit, Livewire, and Incursion. These books were produced by the post-Dinesh people, and were actually generally received okay. Dreamside is a lot of fun, and way better than Future Force. Bloodshot Rising Spirit is awful and has gone through 3 writers and a handful of artists within it's last six issues. Livewire started out rough, but it looks like it's found it's stride and I'm so happy that they dealt with Amanda's atrocious actions head-on. I honestly can't wait for the next issue. Incursion has been really great as well.

Everyone here loves Valiant, but the negative buzz is not helpful. Maybe a little mental reset is in order to take the new material as it is without other baggage affecting your expectations and opinions.

I'll wait while you get your knives out.

Sorry for the long post, I just take issue with a few of the points here, and I wanted to make sure you understood that you're conflating the late Dinesh era and the DMG era.