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Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:55:39 pm

I noticed in the May solicitations that most titles just had an A and B cover, and sometimes a C cover. Are they killing variants on all but #1 issues? If so, honestly, that must be the most innovative thing I’ve heard yet. Bucking the industry.

Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:32:15 pm

If so, I love it! Chase the 1:100 or 1:250 for the first issue, but let the other covers stand on their own, carrying equal weight (except for the A cover which may receive a slightly higher print run.)

I noticed that some regular covers are starting to sell out at Midtown. For this weeks upcoming Forgotten Queen #1 release, the Veronica Fish and the Amilcar Pinna covers are completely sold out. That’s pretty cool.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:58:27 pm

Pretty much, Valiant has now killed collecting Valiant. The 1:250's aren't valuable or sought after. CBCS is the only one that will slab? Why bother. AND a store can purchase more than one? Zero desire to collect those.

While it was a smaller portion of people, those that collected Valiant because they were desired have left the building.

Guess I can go back to collecting Bourbon and Whiskey now, nothing left here to see

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:54:00 pm

Whoa, hold on. What you are saying may be true for you, but my experience is quite different.

I was about to seriously cut back on new issue 1:50s per month, which I believe rose to as high as six in one month about 1 year ago?! And any of us that were doing that were lucky to receive 1 in 3 gradable copies. It was frustrating, and I would have ceased trying had Valiant not ceased production of 1:50 variants for almost every book.

Now, I find it much more possible to collect the one ratio book per month that is released, and because it corresponds to a #1, the ratios are high and the book does seem to represent something special.

And let’s face it, there are so many holes in my collection, and with years of ratio books to now find in back issue, I have more than enough continuing expense on my hands.

So in essence, for me, the elimination of most ratio books has INCREASED Valiant’s collectibility!

And as I alluded to earlier, the A-C covers that sell out out early win on the merit of the cover itself, not purely on it’s limited availability.

And IMO that is a healthy way forward for Valiant.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:28:07 pm

AnarchoMambo wrote:Whoa, hold on. What you are saying may be true for you, but my experience is quite different.

I was about to seriously cut back on new issue 1:50s per month, which I believe rose to as high as six in one month about 1 year ago?! And any of us that were doing that were lucky to receive 1 in 3 gradable copies. It was frustrating, and I would have ceased trying had Valiant not ceased production of 1:50 variants for almost every book.

Now, I find it much more possible to collect the one ratio book per month that is released, and because it corresponds to a #1, the ratios are high and the book does seem to represent something special.

And let’s face it, there are so many holes in my collection, and with years of ratio books to now find in back issue, I have more than enough continuing expense on my hands.

So in essence, for me, the elimination of most ratio books has INCREASED Valiant’s collectibility!

And as I alluded to earlier, the A-C covers that sell out out early win on the merit of the cover itself, not purely on it’s limited availability.

And IMO that is a healthy way forward for Valiant.


I wasn't talking about my experiences, I was talking about the collect-ability of Valiant as a whole. Prices have fallen off the top shelf for many Valiant variant books. An Archer and Armstrong Gold #1 (Van Lente) CGC 9.8 sold for $58 this Saturday, high traffic time too. Eternal Warrior Gold Matte finish selling for $85 in great condition (down about 15-20%) #2,#3,#4 Savage 1:50 CGC selling for $100-$150 ea when they were all above $250. Savage #1 1:50 selling for $250! Rai Gold #1 less than $125 CGC 9.8. X-O Manowar Humble Bundle $12.62. These originally sold for better than $100, and now it's a regular book.

All I was trying to point out is that those that used to collect Valiant because it was collectible, and thus creating a stir (which caused more people to get involved with the books, selling more books) is falling off. Sure, you're able to find those books that you need so that you can fill your gaps (and I have as well), but as much as we all hated speculators, they kind of pushed the brand of Valiant out to areas where the stories alone can't and won't reach

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:42:57 pm

AnarchoMambo wrote:Whoa, hold on. What you are saying may be true for you, but my experience is quite different.

I was about to seriously cut back on new issue 1:50s per month, which I believe rose to as high as six in one month about 1 year ago?! And any of us that were doing that were lucky to receive 1 in 3 gradable copies. It was frustrating, and I would have ceased trying had Valiant not ceased production of 1:50 variants for almost every book.

Now, I find it much more possible to collect the one ratio book per month that is released, and because it corresponds to a #1, the ratios are high and the book does seem to represent something special.

And let’s face it, there are so many holes in my collection, and with years of ratio books to now find in back issue, I have more than enough continuing expense on my hands.

So in essence, for me, the elimination of most ratio books has INCREASED Valiant’s collectibility!

And as I alluded to earlier, the A-C covers that sell out out early win on the merit of the cover itself, not purely on it’s limited availability.

And IMO that is a healthy way forward for Valiant.


I'm totally in the same place, and I know I'm still not going to get half of the non-variant issues every month in 9.8 condition!

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:45:59 pm

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
AnarchoMambo wrote:Whoa, hold on. What you are saying may be true for you, but my experience is quite different.

I was about to seriously cut back on new issue 1:50s per month, which I believe rose to as high as six in one month about 1 year ago?! And any of us that were doing that were lucky to receive 1 in 3 gradable copies. It was frustrating, and I would have ceased trying had Valiant not ceased production of 1:50 variants for almost every book.

Now, I find it much more possible to collect the one ratio book per month that is released, and because it corresponds to a #1, the ratios are high and the book does seem to represent something special.

And let’s face it, there are so many holes in my collection, and with years of ratio books to now find in back issue, I have more than enough continuing expense on my hands.

So in essence, for me, the elimination of most ratio books has INCREASED Valiant’s collectibility!

And as I alluded to earlier, the A-C covers that sell out out early win on the merit of the cover itself, not purely on it’s limited availability.

And IMO that is a healthy way forward for Valiant.


I wasn't talking about my experiences, I was talking about the collect-ability of Valiant as a whole. Prices have fallen off the top shelf for many Valiant variant books. An Archer and Armstrong Gold #1 (Van Lente) CGC 9.8 sold for $58 this Saturday, high traffic time too. Eternal Warrior Gold Matte finish selling for $85 in great condition (down about 15-20%) #2,#3,#4 Savage 1:50 CGC selling for $100-$150 ea when they were all above $250. Savage #1 1:50 selling for $250! Rai Gold #1 less than $125 CGC 9.8. X-O Manowar Humble Bundle $12.62. These originally sold for better than $100, and now it's a regular book.

All I was trying to point out is that those that used to collect Valiant because it was collectible, and thus creating a stir (which caused more people to get involved with the books, selling more books) is falling off. Sure, you're able to find those books that you need so that you can fill your gaps (and I have as well), but as much as we all hated speculators, they kind of pushed the brand of Valiant out to areas where the stories alone can't and won't reach


I've noticed falling prices as well. I also have noticed that most of the slabs on eBay have been overpriced for ages. It's kind of ridiculous. That's why they never sell. Even if it is an issue that is difficult to get in 9.8, that doesn't mean that anyone wants it, let alone commands a premium. Before the first DMG announcement of the partnership and movie deal, most Valiant slabs weren't worth the grading fees, except for a few keys. I would pick up pre-Unity 9.8s for less than $15.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:42:52 pm

collectability of Savage was off the chart because it was seen as a new character to the Valiant universe. But there has been nothing done with this character since.
so why would it go up.

Look at all the *SQUEE* on eBay who are posting cgc 9.8 variants! the prices are just stupid, it is almost as if they are just putting them up on eBay to brag that
they have it. Maybe some millionaire will someday pay that price.

when the hard to get variants are put up as an auction with a low starting price, they still sale for good money. I finally got my Harbinger Renegades #6 that is
a high grade for $122 just a few days ago on eBay. I am still looking for some of those Ninjak late variants. I am not rich, having 3-6 1:50s every month is not
something I can afford on a monthly basis. I am glad for the break so I can catch up.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:50:57 pm

Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:54:39 pm

mkb28 wrote:Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(


Very interesting! I had not heard of this. Seen it, but not heard of it.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:20:14 pm

mkb28 wrote:Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(


My LCS offered me one for $150, plus as many the other variants as I want. I typically only grab a few of each, and he gives a bunch out for free.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:48:33 pm

I'm taking a contrary view in respect to collectability. I imagine that the incentive variants have pushed the print runs up, as there are probably enough Valiant variant collectors that will spend the premium to get the incentives that will require their retailers to order the required number of copies, pushing more of the regular covers out there than are needed. If this a correct assumption, and it basically becomes the new policy moving forward, we're about to enter a year of low-print Valiant books. (I assume that the Bloodshot movie will give the line a boost, and, if the movie is good to excellent, it should give Valiant a big boost, I think.) I've been ordering one of each book, including the incentives (but skipping on the glass/metal/whatever variants, as they're too expensive for a single new book), but moving forward, since I'm no longer shelling out money for expensive variants, I'm going to add some extra copies of the covers that I like. If Valiant takes off because of the movie, these could be some *very* hard to find books down the road.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:56:36 pm

kjjohanson wrote:I'm taking a contrary view in respect to collectability. I imagine that the incentive variants have pushed the print runs up, as there are probably enough Valiant variant collectors that will spend the premium to get the incentives that will require their retailers to order the required number of copies, pushing more of the regular covers out there than are needed. If this a correct assumption, and it basically becomes the new policy moving forward, we're about to enter a year of low-print Valiant books. (I assume that the Bloodshot movie will give the line a boost, and, if the movie is good to excellent, it should give Valiant a big boost, I think.) I've been ordering one of each book, including the incentives (but skipping on the glass/metal/whatever variants, as they're too expensive for a single new book), but moving forward, since I'm no longer shelling out money for expensive variants, I'm going to add some extra copies of the covers that I like. If Valiant takes off because of the movie, these could be some *very* hard to find books down the road.


Agree on this. Collectibility of these regular issues will be based more on content and cover art. Reminds me of Acclaim.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:37:47 pm

Personally, I like that there's less ratio variants. I don't collect Valiant for anything but my own enjoyment. Yes, I will sell stuff from time-to-time but if my purchases come down to A,B and a pre-order and blank, that's awesome and hopefully, better for Valiant.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:40:30 pm

nycjadie wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:I'm taking a contrary view in respect to collectability. I imagine that the incentive variants have pushed the print runs up, as there are probably enough Valiant variant collectors that will spend the premium to get the incentives that will require their retailers to order the required number of copies, pushing more of the regular covers out there than are needed. If this a correct assumption, and it basically becomes the new policy moving forward, we're about to enter a year of low-print Valiant books. (I assume that the Bloodshot movie will give the line a boost, and, if the movie is good to excellent, it should give Valiant a big boost, I think.) I've been ordering one of each book, including the incentives (but skipping on the glass/metal/whatever variants, as they're too expensive for a single new book), but moving forward, since I'm no longer shelling out money for expensive variants, I'm going to add some extra copies of the covers that I like. If Valiant takes off because of the movie, these could be some *very* hard to find books down the road.


Agree on this. Collectibility of these regular issues will be based more on content and cover art. Reminds me of Acclaim.

To me, this ought to be the core of collectability when it comes to comics anyway. Issues with the best stories ought to be more desirable imo, without all the artificial collectability of variant covers bloating the marketplace. Given the nature of comics as an artistic and entertainment medium, comics ought to (imo) foremost be about story - the cover art, to me, really is just pretty wrapping for the thing that I'm really interested in; think of comics as a chocolate bar: the wrapper adds initial visual appeal to the thing, but I choose which chocolate bar to buy based solely upon what I want to enjoy from what's inside the wrapper - the wrapper is throw-away at the end of the day and makes no difference to my enjoyment of the primary content of the item.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:36:20 pm

mkb28 wrote:Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(


Because 100 copies cost DCBS $170 to buy and they get to return anything not sold as the book is 100% returnable. So risk free $30 profit, but VEI gets stuck with thousands of copies returned. Not sure how that benefits the market.

Glass covers are a bit different. I can order unlimited (well limited by my wallet) glass covers, but that's not the case cause I don't want a HUGE bill that week. And most stores can't even afford the expense of 250 copies on their bill, so the amount of glass covers is self limiting.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:52:01 pm

paradise wrote:
mkb28 wrote:Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(


Because 100 copies cost DCBS $170 to buy and they get to return anything not sold as the book is 100% returnable. So risk free $30 profit, but VEI gets stuck with thousands of copies returned. Not sure how that benefits the market.

Glass covers are a bit different. I can order unlimited (well limited by my wallet) glass covers, but that's not the case cause I don't want a HUGE bill that week. And most stores can't even afford the expense of 250 copies on their bill, so the amount of glass covers is self limiting.


The glass covers are perfect example of VEI vs Chinese Valiant. VEI were very good about being responsible with variants. The metal covers were one per store no matter how many copies you ordered, once you qualified. The glass are as many as you want. If variants are self limiting then you wouldn't need to do one per store as VEI did and the glass covers wouldn't keep dropping in price (there are too many of them because Valiant gave up protecting long term growth for short term numbers - probably to fight all the negative press of the firings and quittings). The last two glass cover auctions on ebay (not buy it nows). were $90 and $120...

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:15:14 pm

You are also comparing XO and Bloodshot with Livewire so it's not a fair comparison.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:39:23 pm

syzhang28 wrote:
paradise wrote:
mkb28 wrote:Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(


Because 100 copies cost DCBS $170 to buy and they get to return anything not sold as the book is 100% returnable. So risk free $30 profit, but VEI gets stuck with thousands of copies returned. Not sure how that benefits the market.

Glass covers are a bit different. I can order unlimited (well limited by my wallet) glass covers, but that's not the case cause I don't want a HUGE bill that week. And most stores can't even afford the expense of 250 copies on their bill, so the amount of glass covers is self limiting.


The glass covers are perfect example of VEI vs Chinese Valiant. VEI were very good about being responsible with variants. The metal covers were one per store no matter how many copies you ordered, once you qualified. The glass are as many as you want. If variants are self limiting then you wouldn't need to do one per store as VEI did and the glass covers wouldn't keep dropping in price (there are too many of them because Valiant gave up protecting long term growth for short term numbers - probably to fight all the negative press of the firings and quittings). The last two glass cover auctions on ebay (not buy it nows). were $90 and $120...


The variants were already out of control before the DMG takeover. If anything, I think DMG tried to make them more uniform, and then scaled back completely. The metal covers also dropped in price significantly. I picked up metal covers for $100 or so. That's why I have duplicates of them.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:55:38 pm

nycjadie wrote:
syzhang28 wrote:
paradise wrote:
mkb28 wrote:Punk Mambo #1 will have a 1:100 Variant available. It is only $200 on DCBS: :o

https://www.dcbservice.com/product/feb1 ... bo-1-(of-5)-100-copy-incv-cvr-d-punk-var-brereton-(


Because 100 copies cost DCBS $170 to buy and they get to return anything not sold as the book is 100% returnable. So risk free $30 profit, but VEI gets stuck with thousands of copies returned. Not sure how that benefits the market.

Glass covers are a bit different. I can order unlimited (well limited by my wallet) glass covers, but that's not the case cause I don't want a HUGE bill that week. And most stores can't even afford the expense of 250 copies on their bill, so the amount of glass covers is self limiting.


The glass covers are perfect example of VEI vs Chinese Valiant. VEI were very good about being responsible with variants. The metal covers were one per store no matter how many copies you ordered, once you qualified. The glass are as many as you want. If variants are self limiting then you wouldn't need to do one per store as VEI did and the glass covers wouldn't keep dropping in price (there are too many of them because Valiant gave up protecting long term growth for short term numbers - probably to fight all the negative press of the firings and quittings). The last two glass cover auctions on ebay (not buy it nows). were $90 and $120...


The variants were already out of control before the DMG takeover. If anything, I think DMG tried to make them more uniform, and then scaled back completely. The metal covers also dropped in price significantly. I picked up metal covers for $100 or so. That's why I have duplicates of them.


Yea, but that was a year or longer after the release of the X-O or Bloodshot book that you got those metal books, chances are they were damaged too. The Livewire and Bloodshot:Rising Spirit books are barely 3 books in and you can get them for that price. It's not a matter of the character on the book, it's the flood of books that kills desirability. There are still 9 Bloodshot Rising Spirit and Livewire glass books that probably will never know the comfort and love of a collector.

Besides the X-O, the other metals have been holding their own, if not going upwards slightly.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:46:34 pm

The number of variants they were putting out a year ago, was nuts. Not every book needs nor deserves a 1:50 or even a 1:20. The break has been nice, it's allowed me to catch up a bit and maintain. But the market has clearly dropped on a lot of books and I think this has caused a lot of people to sit on them hoping they will go back up. Several of the 1:50's from a year or so ago that I am missing are only 9.8 slabs for insane amounts of money that I just don't have and I don't do slabs 99% of the time. Money has been tight so I haven't been able to get to involved in the metal and glass game but I personally am happy that they aren't too insane yet so I can add them to my collection.

Re: Did Valiant kill variant issues?

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:24:37 am

I felt dumb after buying (most of) the Unity #1 variants. Valiant killed variants for me.
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