Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

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nwoslave
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Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by nwoslave »

November previews doesnt show books for Ninja-K and Q&W in January.

Bets on who is next?

Shadowman is my guess.

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by BugsySig »

Shadowman is ending with #11. Last solicit said final issue.
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by nwoslave »

BugsySig wrote:Shadowman is ending with #11. Last solicit said final issue.
i was just guessing. i had not read that issue yet.

they need to just write 12 issue stories and thats it. im tired of them writing like its a ongoing monthly and canceling it. then it feels incomplete.

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by jxm640 »

nwoslave wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Shadowman is ending with #11. Last solicit said final issue.
i was just guessing. i had not read that issue yet.

they need to just write 12 issue stories and thats it. im tired of them writing like its a ongoing monthly and canceling it. then it feels incomplete.
I actually agree with you here. If they want to act like it is ongoing, get each writer to do a 12 issue arc and then introduce a new voice and treat it like a new jumping on point.

Other than X-O, what was the last Valiant series that went beyond 12 issues?
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by WrathOfArmstrong »

jxm640 wrote:
nwoslave wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Shadowman is ending with #11. Last solicit said final issue.
i was just guessing. i had not read that issue yet.

they need to just write 12 issue stories and thats it. im tired of them writing like its a ongoing monthly and canceling it. then it feels incomplete.
I actually agree with you here. If they want to act like it is ongoing, get each writer to do a 12 issue arc and then introduce a new voice and treat it like a new jumping on point.

Other than X-O, what was the last Valiant series that went beyond 12 issues?
Ninja-K... 14....

I know Shadowman looks like 'low sales' did away with it, but I still think a lot of this is the new regime clearing house. I wouldn't be surprised if XO bows out at #25... so either way its all new series starting in 2019

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by sonicdan »

X-O is going to at least #26 per the pre-order solicit. I would not be at all surprised if that was it though.
It would at least be bookended by Giorello's art.
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by otomo »

Sad on Shadowman. It's about the best I've seen of the character in VEI (barring the 3 issue filler back-in-time stint).
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by TheFerg714 »

sonicdan wrote:X-O is going to at least #26 per the pre-order solicit. I would not be at all surprised if that was it though.
It would at least be bookended by Giorello's art.
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by IMJ »

I feel the same way about the cancellations. And at this point, making points about low sales leading to relaunches is ridiculous to because the same book comes back with a relaunch. Basically, the true #1 issue of something doesn't exist in modern publishing anymore. If a lot of these books would just hang in there like the old days, then eventually they could find a readership that enjoys contiguous numbering. Although readers would come and go, most people return to a title when it looks appealing again.

The fact is that comic book relaunches are arguably a product of the "YOLO" mentality because it serves the quick cash grab (e.g. "is there enough for me" mentality). These publishers would probably see similar sales surges by rebranding (like the old days) while maintaining a series.

Truthfully, for many years now relaunching and renumbering is basically my excuse to drop a book, and often a publisher completely. I'm not kidding when I say that I believe that we are living in the death throws of modern comic publishing.

-Look at all of the relaunches for the publisher cash grab.

-Look at Marvel's recent 250,000 graphic novel sell off

-Look at DC's continued post-New 52 reboots.

-Look at Valiant Comics diminished, nonsense lineup although they hold arguably the third most recognizable superhero universe.

-Look at the unrecovered fallout from the industry's -specifically Marvel's - embrace of liberal politics over the last 4 years.

-Look at the generational gap in collectors. At this point Gen X is keeping the hobby alive and it's based purely on 40-something's annual incomes funding monthlies that kids won't buy.

-Look at the rise of modern speculation on YouTube and various websites. But it's worse than the 90's spec-bubble because the whole thing is built on mass-produced incentive covers rather than solid publication. Also, the current Spec-market is being embraced by the remaining collectors rather than expanding to the general public. Think about that. If there is no general public to affect the industry when that particular fallout occurs, then who is it that will get fed up and leave the hobby? The answer is the hardcore collectors. The foundation buyers.

-Look at the current growing economic issue in the country that's being wrought by our generation - it's debt. It's a bigger problem than th mid-2000's housing crisis. We have to make sacrifices to resolve debt before an economic crisis occurs in the country. But how do we, the "me" generation, buy all of those expensive Silver Age and 90's gold variant books that we've always wanted? Normally with a credit source. So what happens to that aspect of the industry when we are forced to stop buying because of the impending economic fallout from the debt crisis.

I know that every year for at least 50 years people point to market conditions as the death knell of comics. But there are very real observations to be made about the current industry, and the idea becomes even more damning when these observations are combined with currently prolific political and generational lifestyle mentalities. If I saw more kids embracing monthly comic buying, I'd be less gloom-and-doom, but combine that piece of information with everything I've outlined here. I'm not some kind of doomsday prepper or anything, but I do believe in capitalism and I think that each of those bullets is an incredibly relevant observation regarding the situation at large

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by mkb28 »

Excellent observations, IMJ. :thumb:

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by dino »

I disagree with your thesis that we are in the death throes of publishing. I apologize for not taking the time to tackle your points individually but I did want to chime in and just say an observation of the industry is better served if you "Follow the trend lines, not the headlines."
IMJ wrote:I feel the same way about the cancellations. And at this point, making points about low sales leading to relaunches is ridiculous to because the same book comes back with a relaunch. Basically, the true #1 issue of something doesn't exist in modern publishing anymore. If a lot of these books would just hang in there like the old days, then eventually they could find a readership that enjoys contiguous numbering. Although readers would come and go, most people return to a title when it looks appealing again.

The fact is that comic book relaunches are arguably a product of the "YOLO" mentality because it serves the quick cash grab (e.g. "is there enough for me" mentality). These publishers would probably see similar sales surges by rebranding (like the old days) while maintaining a series.

Truthfully, for many years now relaunching and renumbering is basically my excuse to drop a book, and often a publisher completely. I'm not kidding when I say that I believe that we are living in the death throws of modern comic publishing.

-Look at all of the relaunches for the publisher cash grab.

-Look at Marvel's recent 250,000 graphic novel sell off

-Look at DC's continued post-New 52 reboots.

-Look at Valiant Comics diminished, nonsense lineup although they hold arguably the third most recognizable superhero universe.

-Look at the unrecovered fallout from the industry's -specifically Marvel's - embrace of liberal politics over the last 4 years.

-Look at the generational gap in collectors. At this point Gen X is keeping the hobby alive and it's based purely on 40-something's annual incomes funding monthlies that kids won't buy.

-Look at the rise of modern speculation on YouTube and various websites. But it's worse than the 90's spec-bubble because the whole thing is built on mass-produced incentive covers rather than solid publication. Also, the current Spec-market is being embraced by the remaining collectors rather than expanding to the general public. Think about that. If there is no general public to affect the industry when that particular fallout occurs, then who is it that will get fed up and leave the hobby? The answer is the hardcore collectors. The foundation buyers.

-Look at the current growing economic issue in the country that's being wrought by our generation - it's debt. It's a bigger problem than th mid-2000's housing crisis. We have to make sacrifices to resolve debt before an economic crisis occurs in the country. But how do we, the "me" generation, buy all of those expensive Silver Age and 90's gold variant books that we've always wanted? Normally with a credit source. So what happens to that aspect of the industry when we are forced to stop buying because of the impending economic fallout from the debt crisis.

I know that every year for at least 50 years people point to market conditions as the death knell of comics. But there are very real observations to be made about the current industry, and the idea becomes even more damning when these observations are combined with currently prolific political and generational lifestyle mentalities. If I saw more kids embracing monthly comic buying, I'd be less gloom-and-doom, but combine that piece of information with everything I've outlined here. I'm not some kind of doomsday prepper or anything, but I do believe in capitalism and I think that each of those bullets is an incredibly relevant observation regarding the situation at large

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by battlepark »

Nerd Boss, please buy Valiant :)
I hoard Newsstand Editions facepalm

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by SuperMage »

IMJ wrote: -snip-
There are these things called digital publishing and webcomics. That's where the majority of younger readers prefer to enjoy the medium. Simply because Marvel and DC are struggling to remain relevant doesn't mean that comics as a form of media will simply disappear. Comic books are more than just superheroes. Although obviously the inevitable death of the speculator generation will change how the industry works. There are webcomics that receive more monthly traffic than even the highest selling issue of Batman. The only reason why characters like Batman or Spider-Man are recognizable by the public is because media adaptions. Movie tickets don't translate to sales, but name recognition is what keeps a title afloat in the direct market. Valiant characters don't have name recognition, and attempting to penetrate the direct market is an uphill battle when the average consumer is more likely to stick to what they know. The fact the Valiant exist at all after all this time despite having no name recognition is a small miracle.

Print is definitely on the decline, but that has more to due with the expense of producing of comics and how unattractive the price is to potential new readers. 3.99 for five minutes of entertainment is a lot to ask these days. Amazon is making an effort to combat that by expanding the digital market by promoting its own line of Comixology Originals and using a subscription model. Technology isn't a bad thing. In order for industry's to survive the need to embrace the changes in the markets, and be willing to transform. Inflation is the comic industry's greatest enemy along with an aging audience determined to play gatekeeper.

As far as the politics point goes:

1970s:
Image

1970s:
Image

1980s:
Image

The list goes on and on, but superhero comics have always attempted to capitalize on having a "Very Special Episode" where they wage their fingers at their audiences. It's not knew for comics to shame the reader for not being more aware of how (insert relevant subject) affects (insert relevant demographic), or how controversial (insert relevant controversy) to members of (insert relevant demographic). The only difference is now writers have Twitter accounts that certain Youtubers are obsessed with. Even if said writer kept their opinions on their Twitter, and it wasn't even reflected in any of their work.

Also I'm pretty sure X-O Manowar is next to be cancelled. Matt Kindt mentioned in an interview that he's quitting superhero comics. He never stated when his X-O run will end, just that it's his last work for a superhero publisher. I feel that it's safe to assume Kindt's X-O will end at #26. Just part of the new management's purge. And so falls the last of the old guard.
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by IMJ »

SuperMage wrote:There are these things called digital publishing and webcomics. That's where the majority of younger readers prefer to enjoy the medium.
I have some experience with digital publishing. I am far from a luddite, thanks. It's not that you haven't drudged up some relevant history in your post, but your points aren't widely applicable to what I was actually saying.

For example, the statement that the majority of younger readers prefer the digital medium is probably true enough. But it's not enough to only say that younger readers are reading through those channels. Comments like this need a valid readership number to have a valid impact. This statement is like someone saying "people love Kyle Rayner and read his GL books", which may be true but clearly not enough to honor a trade line.

Also, I never stated that politics in comics just began with Marvel's liberal nonsense. There's also a huge disconnect between comparing the lesson politics found commonly in O'Neil's material to the widely divisive bi-partisan politics found in recent Marvel books (which I might add, led very directly to editorial changes, line wipes and more relaunches).

I suppose I wrote strongly enough that someone was bound to perceive that I was saying "we'd never see comic books again", but that's a very extreme interpretation of what I was getting at.
dino wrote:I disagree with your thesis that we are in the death throes of publishing. I apologize for not taking the time to tackle your points individually but I did want to chime in and just say an observation of the industry is better served if you "Follow the trend lines, not the headlines."
Nice to see you posting, Dinesh.

On that note, I see your point but most of my commentary are observations about observable trends as opposed to fearmonger publishing. Actually, over the years I haven't commonly subscribed to the typical "end of days" of comic publishing that has been replete amidst the hobby naysayers for 50 or 60 years now. Putting aside the bulk of the points I wrote above, I would still maintain that a viable business model expresses growth through cross generational patronage. And with that said, it seems to me that the majority of the readership comes from the Gen X demographic at this point, with a diminished presence of younger readers coming in. The same thing happened with baseball cards, only it happened back in the late 90's. Now it's a niche hobby maintained by big spenders with little spending provided by the general public, or younger generations at large.

Niche markets are powerful for maximizing existing usage, but weak when it comes to cultivating new usage. Comic publishing is falling into this trap.
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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by kinggirlfriend »

SuperMage wrote:Also I'm pretty sure X-O Manowar is next to be cancelled. Matt Kindt mentioned in an interview that he's quitting superhero comics. He never I feel that it's safe to assume Kindt's X-O will end at #26. Just part of the new management's purge. And so falls the last of the old guard.
Still leaves us with Jody Houser. Last woman standing. Whatever you may think of FAITH Jody has been very consistent and true to what came before her. She gets the Valiant universe. DREAMSIDE might be the last good book VEI publishes before LIFE AND DEATH OF TOYO.

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Re: Anyone know what else is getting canceled?

Post by ShadowTuga »

kinggirlfriend wrote:
SuperMage wrote:Also I'm pretty sure X-O Manowar is next to be cancelled. Matt Kindt mentioned in an interview that he's quitting superhero comics. He never I feel that it's safe to assume Kindt's X-O will end at #26. Just part of the new management's purge. And so falls the last of the old guard.
Still leaves us with Jody Houser. Last woman standing. Whatever you may think of FAITH Jody has been very consistent and true to what came before her. She gets the Valiant universe. DREAMSIDE might be the last good book VEI publishes before LIFE AND DEATH OF TOYO.
I did not liked "Faith" but it was probably what one could only do with her character, solo-wise. Too light-hearted and "non-consequential" for my tastes, I adored her character's richness and bold-faced natural-born-heroism when Dysart was writing her, but Houser's series always had one pop culture reference too many for its own good, or the villains all seemed like pushovers.
Not putting down the comic as turrible, turrible, turrible, but quality-wise, imho, it is not on the same level of the best that came way before (what you may call old guard).
I never read past issue 6 or so, just could not get the book at all, and I know it was definitely my problem (reading a book that wasn't meant for me).
Kindt leaving is another sign that this ship is trying its best to just steer in a completely all-new, all-different direction. A part of me thinks that this is throwing the baby with the water, but i'm not buying DMG's comics until LaDoTH pops- if it does, i :hope: :hope: :hope: so, who am i to complain? One of the "architect of the Valiant Universe" as editorial once put it, now leaves superheroes- that's a reassuring thought. facepalm facepalm facepalm
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