preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

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preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by syzhang28 »

https://www.inverse.com/article/49962-b ... iant-comic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What unholy nonsense is this? It's a giant slap in the face to everything VEI did, to what the movie is supposed to be doing and even to original Valiant...

Why is he named Mortalli? Didn't Jeff Lemire's run officially reveal Bloodshot to be Ray Garisson? Isn't the movie about Ray Garisson?
Why is he a mafia hitman again? Didn't VEI officially make him a solider? Isn't the movie about a solider?
Why is he not dead and brought back to life?
Where is the big needle that creates the circle on his chest?
Why is he already white before the procedure?
Why is the dialogue so cheesy? I know they are going for a mafia story but "dames", "made man"? It's almost laughable

ugh, i miss the real valiant. Just compare this to Rai #0 or The Valiant or Bloodshot Reborn

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by Ryan »

Hmm can't disagree with what you said. There's some plot holes already in a 4 page preview.

So he's just a nobody gangster trying to get 'made', it makes no sense that because he won't flip on others he's suddenly chosen for a 'super soldier' program. :?

I'm actually in favor of making Bloodshot more like the V1 version, but not like this. V1 Bloodshot had no memory of his previous life, and was a heroic character before realizing that he had been a lowlife gangster in the past. Starting him as a lowlife gangster with no heroic qualities makes him unsympathetic.

Also throwing out all the VEI continuity without ever mentioning that it's a reboot seems really weird.

It makes me think maybe the movie version is doing the Mortalli mobster angle. Didn't we see somewhere that it's combining elements of both versions?

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by nycjadie »

Why are there canonical changes, but the article quotes the writer as saying he did not make canonical changes?

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by SuperMage »

It's 2018. Why the hell are characters using terms like "broad" "sing" "rat" etc. It's not the 1940s anymore. Wouldn't organized criminals in the 21st century be more concerned with things like identity theft, money laundering, and selling counterfeit electronics? Because that's usually what most organized crime families do nowadays. It's 2018, get with the times. Do some research. Put some effort into it. Don't just watch the Godfather, and say "Yeah that'll still work fifty years later." Being trapped in the past, and recycling the same decades old tropes is part of why the comic book industry is so stagnant. Among various other things. I can tolerate the Star Trek aliens in X-O, the femme fatales in Ninjak, etc., but this was just obnoxious to read.

90s art, aweful dialogue, and completely ignoring established canon is a big fat no for me. Valiant books have restored a characters roots before, but this is the first time they've flat out disregarded everything that came before. Whose idea was it to bring in the trash editors and writers from Lion Forge? Firing established talent just to replace them with all your friends is one thing, it's another thing when your friends are clearly crap at what they do.

The actual book had better be better than the preview or this'll be strike number two for me. I've tried so hard to give DMG/Valiant the benefit of the doubt, but they're just determined to screw this up.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by greg »

I'll go out on a limb and say that there's no way the series is going to give answers in the first issue.

Angelo Mortalli will likely end up being one of the false memories that Ray Garrison has had implanted, as well as the bad attempt at gangster lingo, since we're talking about Project Rising Spirit working on ways to extract memories from dying people... a sentenced-to-death gangster named Angelo Mortalli seems like the kind of experimental subject PRS would get permission to brainscan... and through the miracle of technology, they could update the memories to modern times, but maybe not the language... who knows.

Anyway, I'm not throwing out the whole thing until they have published a full story that makes no sense, not a preview of the first issue to get people talking.

Even bad publicity is still publicity... so maybe they're trying to "activate" the fanbase with false flags. They did put "surprise" in quotes... and it is Bloodshot. We never get clear answers. :lol:

For now, let's just call this "nanite, nanite, boo hoo". :kidaround:

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by kinggirlfriend »

It looks super generic and middle of the road. The thing I loved about VEI was their high standards. This does not meet those expectations. At all. facepalm :censored: :!:

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by TheFerg714 »

I'm not comfortable diving too deep into this. For one, Bloodshot's past is still a huge mystery. MANY questions about his life are still left unanswered.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by grendeljd »

greg wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that there's no way the series is going to give answers in the first issue.

Angelo Mortalli will likely end up being one of the false memories that Ray Garrison has had implanted, as well as the bad attempt at gangster lingo, since we're talking about Project Rising Spirit working on ways to extract memories from dying people... a sentenced-to-death gangster named Angelo Mortalli seems like the kind of experimental subject PRS would get permission to brainscan... and through the miracle of technology, they could update the memories to modern times, but maybe not the language... who knows.

Anyway, I'm not throwing out the whole thing until they have published a full story that makes no sense, not a preview of the first issue to get people talking.

Even bad publicity is still publicity... so maybe they're trying to "activate" the fanbase with false flags. They did put "surprise" in quotes... and it is Bloodshot. We never get clear answers. :lol:

For now, let's just call this "nanite, nanite, boo hoo". :kidaround:
I’m with you on all your points - I suspect this is all potentially a memory implant (the fact that they coloured him white before he got the nanites is a potential clue there). Real or not, hammy or not, it’s also a bit of a nod to Kevin VanHooks version of the character.

However, I will say that I did not find that 4 page preview very entertaining or encouraging.
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by jxm640 »

Forgive me if I seem ignorant, but is there confirmation that this Bloodshot is/was/will become Ray Garrison?

In my mind, there must have been more Bloodshots than on Bloodshot Island. Is it possible that this is a new, or old Bloodshot?
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by WrathOfArmstrong »

grendeljd wrote:
greg wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that there's no way the series is going to give answers in the first issue.

Angelo Mortalli will likely end up being one of the false memories that Ray Garrison has had implanted, as well as the bad attempt at gangster lingo, since we're talking about Project Rising Spirit working on ways to extract memories from dying people... a sentenced-to-death gangster named Angelo Mortalli seems like the kind of experimental subject PRS would get permission to brainscan... and through the miracle of technology, they could update the memories to modern times, but maybe not the language... who knows.

Anyway, I'm not throwing out the whole thing until they have published a full story that makes no sense, not a preview of the first issue to get people talking.

Even bad publicity is still publicity... so maybe they're trying to "activate" the fanbase with false flags. They did put "surprise" in quotes... and it is Bloodshot. We never get clear answers. :lol:

For now, let's just call this "nanite, nanite, boo hoo". :kidaround:
I’m with you on all your points - I suspect this is all potentially a memory implant (the fact that they coloured him white before he got the nanites is a potential clue there). Real or not, hammy or not, it’s also a bit of a nod to Kevin VanHooks version of the character.

However, I will say that I did not find that 4 page preview very entertaining or encouraging.
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by depluto »

nycjadie wrote:Why are there canonical changes, but the article quotes the writer as saying he did not make canonical changes?
Yeah, that's why I don't want to read that much into a quick preview. If this was the absolute direction this title was taking I don't think I would be down with it, but I'll give it some time.

Drawing eyeballs didn't seem like a huge priority, either.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by nonplayer »

Whats all the hub bub lets have a look it cant be that bad....
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by nonplayer »

nonplayer wrote:Whats all the hub bub lets have a look it cant be that bad....
Well meh.not catching at all. Who cares about a murderer who made a mob hit. A nobody really.
I hope this isn't going to be all new reboot meterial. Kinda white washes what we know. So far thay 4 page blip .5 out of 5 w t actual #^@$ taimos
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

jxm640 wrote:Forgive me if I seem ignorant, but is there confirmation that this Bloodshot is/was/will become Ray Garrison?

In my mind, there must have been more Bloodshots than on Bloodshot Island. Is it possible that this is a new, or old Bloodshot?
This will be THEE Bloodshot, as I don't think they will go that far off on tangents. This is hyped as the origin story, and I gotta say I agree with a lot of things that have been said. False implanted memory? now that I look at it (white skin before the nanites), this seems highly likely.

Did they try and re-create the 90's style art? Everything screams 90's art, I really hope it doesn't continue down this path, as it's just horrible! If this is what the story will look like all the way through, you can count me out. But, if it's a bit-piece, showing some form of "homage" or nod to the original author/artist, then I'm down!
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by Ryan »

I don't know, I'm a fan of occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually correct. If I have to make all these assumptions that aren't hinted anywhere in the preview, I start to wonder. It could be that this is all a dream of a 90's style comic, but why would I assume that? A preview is meant to be a sampler so a prospective customer can decide if they want to purchase the product. To use it as an elaborate 'gotcha' game seems far-fetched, but who knows.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

greg wrote:I'll go out on a limb and say that there's no way the series is going to give answers in the first issue.

Angelo Mortalli will likely end up being one of the false memories that Ray Garrison has had implanted, as well as the bad attempt at gangster lingo, since we're talking about Project Rising Spirit working on ways to extract memories from dying people... a sentenced-to-death gangster named Angelo Mortalli seems like the kind of experimental subject PRS would get permission to brainscan... and through the miracle of technology, they could update the memories to modern times, but maybe not the language... who knows.

Anyway, I'm not throwing out the whole thing until they have published a full story that makes no sense, not a preview of the first issue to get people talking.

Even bad publicity is still publicity... so maybe they're trying to "activate" the fanbase with false flags. They did put "surprise" in quotes... and it is Bloodshot. We never get clear answers. :lol:

For now, let's just call this "nanite, nanite, boo hoo". :kidaround:
Yes, I hope this is (as you Americans say) a ‘fake out’ as it’s pretty dire if it’s the actual thing. :hope: This really would be Acclaim 2.0

Does anyone from Valiant even read this board now? :? You’d have thought having a place where the hard core talk about the books would be an ideal resource to gauge fan reaction.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by kinggirlfriend »

Yeah I feel like they are selling this exactly as it is. Why should anyone believe otherwise? The art looks this way because this is how the artist draws. I don't think they are going for anything ironic or subversive. Unfortunately. It seems like a gigantic step backwards.

No need to wait and find out if it's not what it looks like. At this stage in life I know where my taste lies. If I see a turd in the middle of the sidewalk I don't need to step in it to make sure it's a turd, I just avoid it.

I will not be getting this.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by Shadowman99 »

I'll probably be the only voice over on my side of the table, but I'm going to take a shot anyway.

One of the best things about the original VEI 2012 run on Bloodshot was that there was a real and true sense of falsehood: at any given moment in the comic the reader could never really be 100% certain that what was happening on the pages was really happening, thanks to the possibilty of false memories that Bloodshot was enduring as a result of his many, many reprogrammings by PRS.

This is the cincher when it comes to Bloodshot: VEI can potentially run any plotline in any relatively modern time period on Bloodshot as any given storyline could potentially be ultimately passed off as another false memory. For instance, the new BS:Rising Spirit could be the 'true' origin of Bloodshot, but then again, it might not be. Lemire's entire run on Bloodshot might end up being passed off as just another false memory.

It's an intriguing real-life structure in which any Bloodshot comic could potentially be new and refreshing, or irksome to readers that want to feel that they've finally got some answers.

I can't say whether VEI are intentionally *SQUEE* the reader base with this new series, or whether it'll transpire to have delivered on the gut reactions that have been voiced in the above posts and just end up being a careless reboot, but either possibility is possible :hm:

Edit: the page didn't load properly on the first read of this thread, so I wasn't aware there were others thinking along these lines too...
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by Shadowman99 »

I'm not out to personally attack anyone here, so don't all lose your *SQUEE* all of a sudden, but I find the number of people writing this off on the strength of a four page preview is pretty disappointing. Those making up their minds based on this preview haven't read the full issue, and an informed verdict can't be based on an incomplete sample. Why not pick up the first issue and then make up your minds? :?

I'm pretty down in the dumps in the general sense on VEI at the moment as a result of the DMG takeover/declining number of monthly titles on the shelves etc. and realise how easy it is to come on the forum and whine about everything as I do on certain topics myself, but to be honest I'm still enjoying the comics on a monthly basis so until I've had a chance to read this, my mind's open to at least giving the first issue a turn.
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by SuperMage »

Shadowman99 wrote:I'm not out to personally attack anyone here, so don't all lose your *SQUEE* all of a sudden, but I find the number of people writing this off on the strength of a four page preview is pretty disappointing. Those making up their minds based on this preview haven't read the full issue, and an informed verdict can't be based on an incomplete sample. Why not pick up the first issue and then make up your minds? :?

I'm pretty down in the dumps in the general sense on VEI at the moment as a result of the DMG takeover/declining number of monthly titles on the shelves etc. and realise how easy it is to come on the forum and whine about everything as I do on certain topics myself, but to be honest I'm still enjoying the comics on a monthly basis so until I've had a chance to read this, my mind's open to at least giving the first issue a turn.
I can see where you're coming from. I feel like most of us are just struggling to deal with all the pent up frustration from how topsy turvy things have gotten these last few months. Bloodshot Rising Spirit is the first real DMG/Valiant book that wasn't already outlined before the takeover happened. So it's going to be our first impression of DMG/Valiant. The stakes are high, and I feel like this series is going to play a big role in deciding future opinion of Valiant. Sometime we just need to vent, to let it all out.

I'm hoping everyone is right and that the preview is just a fakeout. Sort of like the recent Titans' t.v. show. The trailers made the show look like it'd be crap, but the actual pilot turned out to be just average enough to be watchable. I'm hoping for something similar here.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by kinggirlfriend »

Saying BLOODSHOT REBORN/USA/SALVATION was all a dream is about the dumbest thing they can do. It also doesn't make sense. Other character's appeared and were introduced and killed off in those runs. That would mean Deathmate and the Bloodshot Squad doesn't exist and Kozol isn't dead, among other things. What would the point of that be and why would anyone want to read that? It's a 12 year old's idea of deep creativity. "What if.... it was all a dream?!" There's really no benefit to doing such a cheap stunt besides lowering the bar for the next writer who can't progress from the previous arc organically on their own.

The only reason anyone is even floating that idea is because they are afraid to reconcile with the fact that this IS the story they are telling now. A rote story about a mob guy becoming Bloodshot because of the thinnest reasoning with terrible '90s inspired artwork.

Writing it off based on a preview? That's what the previews are for, to give you an idea of what to expect. I don't see movies if I find the trailer ho-hum either just to please fans of an IP. There are better things to spend my money on. But more power to those of you that can find some value in this "throwback".

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by ShadowTuga »

Shadowman99 wrote:I'll probably be the only voice over on my side of the table, but I'm going to take a shot anyway.

One of the best things about the original VEI 2012 run on Bloodshot was that there was a real and true sense of falsehood: at any given moment in the comic the reader could never really be 100% certain that what was happening on the pages was really happening, thanks to the possibilty of false memories that Bloodshot was enduring as a result of his many, many reprogrammings by PRS.

:thumb:
The first arc of the 2012 series was so damn fun and nobody had a clue about anything. Even the panel layout messed with the reader. :lol:
As hopeless as I am for current/future state of the comics themselves, I just do not believe that they would throw away everything that was built these last 6 years with their most famous :? character; I also call it false memories or something like that.
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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by Shadowman99 »

ShadowTuga wrote:
Shadowman99 wrote:I'll probably be the only voice over on my side of the table, but I'm going to take a shot anyway.

One of the best things about the original VEI 2012 run on Bloodshot was that there was a real and true sense of falsehood: at any given moment in the comic the reader could never really be 100% certain that what was happening on the pages was really happening, thanks to the possibilty of false memories that Bloodshot was enduring as a result of his many, many reprogrammings by PRS.
:thumb:
The first arc of the 2012 series was so damn fun and nobody had a clue about anything. Even the panel layout messed with the reader. :lol:
As hopeless as I am for current/future state of the comics themselves, I just do not believe that they would throw away everything that was built these last 6 years with their most famous :? character; I also call it false memories or something like that.
Those early issues back in 2012 are my favourite BS stories to date, I really enjoyed the whole 'is it real?' aspect of the comics :)

I also find it difficult to believe that the entirety of the Bloodshot canon to date has been as blatently disregarded by the new creative team as it appears to have been in the preview, especially when the new writer is quoted right beside the page previews as saying something to the effect of "we haven't ignored the previous canon". Either there's a 'fake out' happening here, with these preview images showing FAR from the full story (and hey, we've got a whole new series to get that out, so does it make sense to blow the whole story in 4 pages released to the public for free?), or the writer is just covering his *SQUEE* with lies at this early point in time to avoid anyone interested in Valiant turning their backs on the company.

SuperMage wrote:
Shadowman99 wrote:I'm not out to personally attack anyone here, so don't all lose your *SQUEE* all of a sudden, but I find the number of people writing this off on the strength of a four page preview is pretty disappointing. Those making up their minds based on this preview haven't read the full issue, and an informed verdict can't be based on an incomplete sample. Why not pick up the first issue and then make up your minds? :?

I'm pretty down in the dumps in the general sense on VEI at the moment as a result of the DMG takeover/declining number of monthly titles on the shelves etc. and realise how easy it is to come on the forum and whine about everything as I do on certain topics myself, but to be honest I'm still enjoying the comics on a monthly basis so until I've had a chance to read this, my mind's open to at least giving the first issue a turn.
I can see where you're coming from. I feel like most of us are just struggling to deal with all the pent up frustration from how topsy turvy things have gotten these last few months. Bloodshot Rising Spirit is the first real DMG/Valiant book that wasn't already outlined before the takeover happened. So it's going to be our first impression of DMG/Valiant. The stakes are high, and I feel like this series is going to play a big role in deciding future opinion of Valiant. Sometime we just need to vent, to let it all out.
I'm certain we're all struggling in our own ways to find our feet with the company since Dino's ousting, and I definitely realise that venting a bit of frustration here on the boards is one method of reconciling it; I've done it myself on more than one occasion so I definitely understand it. I'm not sure that justifies people writing the comic off based on a preview, but I can see how it's likely a significant factor in causing the knee-jerk reaction that seems to be common in this particular case.

I think you're right in saying that this new BS title is going to be important with regards to how it's recieved by readers: it is after all going to be, without a doubt, the first paper-based 'first impression' that the company makes, and we all know that first impressions can only be made once.

kinggirlfriend wrote:Saying BLOODSHOT REBORN/USA/SALVATION was all a dream is about the dumbest thing they can do. It also doesn't make sense. Other character's appeared and were introduced and killed off in those runs. That would mean Deathmate and the Bloodshot Squad doesn't exist and Kozol isn't dead, among other things. What would the point of that be and why would anyone want to read that? It's a 12 year old's idea of deep creativity. "What if.... it was all a dream?!" There's really no benefit to doing such a cheap stunt besides lowering the bar for the next writer who can't progress from the previous arc organically on their own.

The only reason anyone is even floating that idea is because they are afraid to reconcile with the fact that this IS the story they are telling now. A rote story about a mob guy becoming Bloodshot because of the thinnest reasoning with terrible '90s inspired artwork.

Writing it off based on a preview? That's what the previews are for, to give you an idea of what to expect. I don't see movies if I find the trailer ho-hum either just to please fans of an IP. There are better things to spend my money on. But more power to those of you that can find some value in this "throwback".
It's definitely a possibility that the Reborn/USA/Salvation will transpire to have been 'false memories', but let me just point out that I never actually said that I thought that was a good idea :lol:

Actually, just whilst I'm on that thought, it occurs to me that we saw Bloodshot 'crumble into dust' at the end of HWII: What if this new 'mob' angle is somehow fallout from his nanites repairing him? A (temporary?) misalignment of his real/implanted memories? :hm:

If you want to skip the comic based on these previews that's your perogative at the end of the day, and I get your comparison to film trailers, but the difference for me there is that a comic costs ~£3 to sample the full version and lasts about 20mins as an experience, whereas a film costs closer ~£11 and lasts at least an hour and a half. Films are nearly x4 more costly in both cash and time investment, so whereas I wouldn't make that investment to see a film I wasn't sure about, it'd be no trouble at all for me to invest that much cash and time in checking out issue 1 of any given comic to make an impression on it.
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by nonplayer »

Shadowman99 wrote:I'll probably be the only voice over on my side of the table, but I'm going to take a shot anyway.

One of the best things about the original VEI 2012 run on Bloodshot was that there was a real and true sense of falsehood: at any given moment in the comic the reader could never really be 100% certain that what was happening on the pages was really happening, thanks to the possibilty of false memories that Bloodshot was enduring as a result of his many, many reprogrammings by PRS.

This is the cincher when it comes to Bloodshot: VEI can potentially run any plotline in any relatively modern time period on Bloodshot as any given storyline could potentially be ultimately passed off as another false memory. For instance, the new BS:Rising Spirit could be the 'true' origin of Bloodshot, but then again, it might not be. Lemire's entire run on Bloodshot might end up being passed off as just another false memory.

It's an intriguing real-life structure in which any Bloodshot comic could potentially be new and refreshing, or irksome to readers that want to feel that they've finally got some answers.

I can't say whether VEI are intentionally *SQUEE* the reader base with this new series, or whether it'll transpire to have delivered on the gut reactions that have been voiced in the above posts and just end up being a careless reboot, but either possibility is possible :hm:

Edit: the page didn't load properly on the first read of this thread, so I wasn't aware there were others thinking along these lines too...
If this is the case and all we get if false fake out dreams bla bla bla
BS is not going to stand for Boodshot anymore it will stand for something completely different. And I dont need to squee to get my point across.
This look very bad But I will give the first issue a try.
I Miss the good old days.

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Re: preview of Bloodshot: Rising Spirit aka Valiant suck now

Post by kinggirlfriend »

You guys are right that my reaction is totally knee jerk and that I should check out at least the first issue. I'm sure I will at some point just out of morbid curiosity. It's just odd to see any Valiant release and be so underwhelmed and confounded by it.


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