VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT December 2018 Solicitations

[nonplayer]

I hate to talk *SQUEE* about art but I think we found a winner for Fan-Art Friday

Horrible cover

[Zhuge1]

So, thoughts on this:

- It sucks that Ninja-K is ending at 14
- That Bloodshot cover is not good
- I'm not overly worried about Faith sliding a month
- With only 5 titles coming out (and it being December), it would have been nice had they released a nice hardcover collection as well (such as the second volume of the XO Classic Omnibus).

[AnarchoMambo]

Wow, fascinating, I had unintentionally read the first mention of this as praise for this cover! I’m not completely sure that I understand the critique.

I am a big fan of Leif Jones’ other cover for Valiant, for Secret Weapons Owen’s Story. The OA sold for $450 on EBay (I did not bid but have regretted not doing so) and I was prompted to check out some of his other work. Highly detailed pencil drafts, and able to project personality rather well, I thought. Go ahead and Google the name to see for yourself.

So I guess I can totally understand how the awkward style of the Secret Weapons cover is more suited to this artist, but could any of the art critics out there please explain to me the problem with this cover? Apart from maybe that the detail and depth in this art is actually in the weapons themselves, and that Bloodshot appears as a blank rictus stare. But isn’t that perhaps the point in Bloodshot’s origin story?

And if any of you bought that Leif Jones Secret Weapons Cover art on EBay, and are now having second thoughts because the groupthink Board critique now considers Leif Jones’s art as amateur, please contact me!

[nycjadie]

Well, there is some really god awful cover art here. Definitely is getting worse, but still some gems. And I see the final issue of Ninjak will have the Massafera cover I purchased. Glad to see it will be published. Love that piece.

[iggy101us]

Shadowan #10 cover C reminds me of X-O #48.

[jeremycoe]

I actually doubt Faith "slipped" on their schedule. The release dates for issues 1-3 are Sep. 26, Oct. 31, & Nov. 28. That would put #4 at Dec. 26 - which 1) I think would be a bad day to release any comic, and 2) I believe actually has to be ready a week earlier than normal because Diamond ships the Dec. 26 releases with the Dec. 19 releases because, you know, holidays. To have the same amount of lead time as the other issues it would need to be released in January. I guess we'll see if it's out on January 2 or not, but even if not like the original complaint about it inferred you can't be late on something you didn't solicit.

[BugsySig]

I actually doubt Faith "slipped" on their schedule. The release dates for issues 1-3 are Sep. 26, Oct. 31, & Nov. 28. That would put #4 at Dec. 26 - which 1) I think would be a bad day to release any comic, and 2) I believe actually has to be ready a week earlier than normal because Diamond ships the Dec. 26 releases with the Dec. 19 releases because, you know, holidays. To have the same amount of lead time as the other issues it would need to be released in January. I guess we'll see if it's out on January 2 or not, but even if not like the original complaint about it inferred you can't be late on something you didn't solicit.

Stop making sense and using logic.

DOOM.

DOOM, I say!

[grendeljd]

While it’s not great news, I’m pretty sure this isn’t the first time a one month gap “delay” on soliciting an issue has occurred at VEI. I seem to recall it was an issue of RAI, but I could be wrong. It’s not a sign of a coming Valiant Comics Apocalypse.

It is odd that some of the additional writers are not listed for Bloodshot PRS #2, could be a typo/oversight. Although in the first place, 3 writers seems like an uncomfortably awkward-sized creative team to me.

I believe with Rai they took breaks between each arc to account for Clayton Crain doing all the art duties and not rotating in another artist.

There was also an extra month gap between 7-8 and 11-12.

Actually, if we are going to talk planned gaps, there were 3 month lags in between Rai arcs. 1-4 then a 3 month gap, 5-8 then a 3 month gap, 9-12 then a 3 month gap. Harbinger Renegade also had this, 1-4 then, IRC a 4 month gap before 5. But these were intentional due to the same artist staying on the book for it's full run. Putting out 3 issues of a 4 issue mini and then delaying the last one is actually unprecedented at VEI and therefore arguably represents the first ever late-shipping issue.

What he said.

I still disagree that this is a late issue, or at least, the *first* late issue.

I know there were planned long gaps between arcs on RAI, and thats okay by me, doesn't count as late when it s a planned pause between story arcs [especially when it was well advertised at the time]. But Ferg nailed it - there was a gap of 1 month between two issues *within* a story arc [which happened *twice* if Ferg is correct]... those books were essentially late, but technically just weren't solicited so no-one counts them as late. I am just saying the same logic applies to Faith #4 here.

And, it doesn't concern me too much as an extra thing to get wound up about in the same light as some other perceived gaffs by Valiant.

[TheFerg714]

Actually, if we are going to talk planned gaps, there were 3 month lags in between Rai arcs. 1-4 then a 3 month gap, 5-8 then a 3 month gap, 9-12 then a 3 month gap. Harbinger Renegade also had this, 1-4 then, IRC a 4 month gap before 5. But these were intentional due to the same artist staying on the book for it's full run. Putting out 3 issues of a 4 issue mini and then delaying the last one is actually unprecedented at VEI and therefore arguably represents the first ever late-shipping issue.

Actually, there was also a month gap between two issues within an arc. I'm well aware that Rai took breaks between arcs, but it's actually not unprecedented for Valiant, as I stated before, seeing as Rai #7 and 8, as well as Rai #11 and 12 skipped a month inbetween their releases.
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I don't think these solicitations are necessarily proof of a late book, but having only five book in one month is a really bad look, especially after everything else that's going on with Valiant/DMG.

[WrathOfArmstrong]

I believe Diamond also said they were giving their employees off the week of Christmas... and things were either coming out a week earlier or a week later, so not VEIDMG's fault. It's too easy to jump to doom and gloom these days.

[QUARTZ]

I'm really sad Ninja-K is ending; especially with the new arc being so well drawn and all around bad *SQUEE*.

[AnarchoMambo]

And if any of you bought that Leif Jones Secret Weapons Cover art on EBay, and are now having second thoughts because the groupthink Board critique now considers Leif Jones’s art as amateur, please contact me!

Nobody is taking me up on my offer to relieve them of an ill-considered purchase of Leif Jones’s “fan-art?” Similarly, the cloying join-in critique of the Jones Bloodshot cover in the December solicitations appears to have ceased on this thread.

But I’m still hoping for someone to explain why this cover is so bad. I, for one, am genuinely curious. Jones’s Secret Weapons cover was fully colored. His pencils are not inked or colored on this Bloodshot cover, which is not commonly done, I will admit. But when Valiant applies this sort of treatment to Mico’s or Larosa’s work, it’s commonly perceived as beautiful, and is honored with a 1:50 black-and-white sketch edition. So I’m just trying to understand the difference. Is it the lack of background detail? Or something else?

[sonicdan]

Sure, I'll bite since I originally posted the cover...
I don't like the expression on his face. This body, while muscular, doesn't have the right amount of bulk that I prefer for this character. The foreshortening on the arms looks weird to me. I don't think it quite reaches the quality I'm accustomed to with Valiant covers.
These are observations that formed my opinion. Clearly, others mileage may vary. When 5-8 books a month are published, with sometimes over 25 covers, there are going to be ones that are more appealing than others.
Dan

[kinggirlfriend]

The proportions and perspective is wonky. The composition is lopsided. The rendering is fine but without a better base drawing it doesn't matter. It's also yet another image of a character on a generic background. Which would be fine if the drawing of the character was stronger.

[SuperMage]

And if any of you bought that Leif Jones Secret Weapons Cover art on EBay, and are now having second thoughts because the groupthink Board critique now considers Leif Jones’s art as amateur, please contact me!

Nobody is taking me up on my offer to relieve them of an ill-considered purchase of Leif Jones’s “fan-art?” Similarly, the cloying join-in critique of the Jones Bloodshot cover in the December solicitations appears to have ceased on this thread.

But I’m still hoping for someone to explain why this cover is so bad. I, for one, am genuinely curious. Jones’s Secret Weapons cover was fully colored. His pencils are not inked or colored on this Bloodshot cover, which is not commonly done, I will admit. But when Valiant applies this sort of treatment to Mico’s or Larosa’s work, it’s commonly perceived as beautiful. So I’m just trying to understand the difference. Is it the lack of background detail? Or something else?

Well I don't really care about covers or collectibles or any of that other stuff. I've always felt the art in Valiant books were often a mixed bag, and that the best art work was reserved for the covers. As an artist I think this cover is definitely very stylized, but feels rushed. Those pose is very awkward, and the proportions for the head doesn't feel right. Comparing this drawing to his Gen Zero cover, the Gen Zero cover is clearly superior. The faces in the Gen Zero drawing at the border of uncanny valley due to heavily rendered they are despite having "comic book" proportions. It works, and feels unique because its a cross between realism and expressionism. Monica Jim on the other hand looks very strange. She looks like an elderly woman, and her hair doesn't seem to be the best representation of Monica's hairstyle. Granted a lot of artist struggle with drawing afro-textured hair due to, unfortunately, not seem it was something important to learn.

The mains issues for me are the head, and the general pose. Specifically the way Bloodshot is holding his rifle. The head on Bloodshot is very square, and I know Bloodshot is always squared jawed, but here it looks like the head's proportions are off. Bloodshot's actual facial features like his eyes and nose are pretty large, and his actual skull seems to be too small. The foreshortening here is meant to imply that Bloodshot is looking down. That's fine. Bloodshot's head is shaped fine, but the actual face doesn't seem be following the same rules of perspective. Perspective is also another issue for the rifle. For some reason Bloodshot is balancing a rifle in the palm of his hand, not very practical is he actually needs to use it. The thing is, he's holding the rifle from the front instead of the back, where most of the weight would likely be. Logically then, the butt of the rifle should be much lower. The rifle seems to be obeying its own rules perspective and balance separate from Bloodshot despite the fact that the two are in relation to each other. In order for the rifle to appear so large in relation to Bloodshot, his arm would have to absurdly long to hold it in that specific position. It's just really awkward.

The fact that Leif Jones didn't actually ink or color the cover suggests it have been a last minute thing. Still the more I look at it, the more it grows on me. I still don't like the way the head looks, but the face and the body looks pretty good. It seems unfair to trash a piece of art over something that could fixed with Photoshop's resize tool. It's just that its the odd duckling compared to the other covers. In the end it comes down to taste. These are all professional artist, hence why they're published, so suggesting that the artist is an amateur is ridiculous. It's possible to recognize someone's skill, but still dislike the product.

Leonardo Manco's cover on the other hand is unambiguously gorgeous. It's striking, it's distinctive, it's iconic. A little bit of a waste for a book that'll only run for eight issues, with seven of those issues handled by a fill in team. It's definitely the standout cover for December.

[AnarchoMambo]

[grendeljd]

First of all, I agree with those saying that all these covers are done by professional artists and as such I don't want to say anything harsh or disrespectful of that.

Personally, I'm not a fan of that Leif Jones cover either. In a constructive criticism vein, I think the head is a bit too big for the rest of the body proportions. The placement & way he is holding the large rifle is very awkward & doesn't make any sense. The gun itself is very well rendered though.

I think the biggest issue with this piece is that its one of a thousand images of Bloodshot with no shirt standing upright holding a gun or two, doing nothing, with no background or anything truly compelling to help it stand out in an ocean of sameness. I am not a fan of generic cover art like this, where the artist has been hired to draw the character but isn't allowed to do anything very specific. I am saying this from an artists perspective, and as such it is *much* less a criticism of Leif's work, and *more* a criticism of the industry that paid for it. This kind of thing happens a lot behind the scenes in modern production of illustration across all kinds of commercial platforms, not just comics. Its unfortunate, in my opinion, but its part of the business. I hope that fan reaction in general helps steer us away from these kinds of covers some day.

[kinggirlfriend]

I'm a professional illustrator/graphic designer/photographer for over 25 years now. I've worked in children's educational animation, freelanced editorial illustration for Hustler and High Society, technical illustration for industrial machinery, product photography and design for the tobacco industry, etc. The first thing you learn in the professional world is how to take criticism. When I do bad work I expect to be called out on it. And I would be a fool to take it personally. Plenty of people go to art school, get the tools, get the clothes, get the diploma and are never heard from again because they stink. No one gets a participation trophy just for trying. No one deserves to be a professional artist, it must be earned through good work. It's a competitive field. Nobody's saying Leif Jones should quit his career or be dragged out into the street and tarred and feathered. If someone's reaction to a piece is they don't like it then that is completely valid. Having standards is good. Otherwise we all end up with participation trophies and nothing is earned. Leif's done good work before but this is not one of them.

[MGS]

Not to derail the thread too far from the original topic, but I have to agree about the issue with generic cover art. While I definitely enjoy collecting original cover art, the lack of connection between the cover and the actual story inside the book is a bit of a bummer. I've got to the point now where I have one or more covers featuring most of the main VEI characters, and I'm a little more hesitant to pick up yet another Bloodshot, Ninjak, etc. cover because there's not really enough to differentiate all of them. I'd love it if I could go out and pick up a cover that immediately brings to mind a key moment or story line, but those seem to be few and far between.

Given that, I do at least try to look for covers that have some kind of background to them rather than just a pin-up pose. It makes them more interesting and visually appealing, at least to me. This is a bit of an extreme example, but I've probably spent more time examining this Wrath of the Eternal Warrior #1 cover by David Lafuente than any other cover I own:



Mike

[kinggirlfriend]

I love that WRATH cover. Absolutely brilliant!

[MGS]

I love that WRATH cover. Absolutely brilliant!

Thanks, yeah, it's one of my favorites. Obviously, I'm not saying all covers need to be quite so involved, and I have a couple pin-up style covers that I really like, but having a little something going on with the background definitely adds to the appeal.

Mike

[Bl00dsh0t]

I believe Diamond also said they were giving their employees off the week of Christmas... and things were either coming out a week earlier or a week later, so not VEIDMG's fault. It's too easy to jump to doom and gloom these days.

You're 100% right - given the state of Valiant at the moment (HWII flop, cancellation of good series, DMG stock, creative team changes before a books' been published) its really easy to shout DOOM and over-react. I know, I've been rather vocal these past couple months on this board.

The only way to temper the fandom is for Valiant to do something to reassure and reconnect with the faithful. Nothing I've seen to this point has done that.

If Ninja-K was heading into #15 with a new writer given Gage's commitment to other jobs, for instance, I don't think the landscape would be so negative. The fans (speaking for myself) just want to see some 'wins' from the publisher of the comics we all love reading.

[jmatt]

Still the more I look at it, the more it grows on me. I still don't like the way the head looks, but the face and the body looks pretty good.

I think the position of the head is supposed to show him inspecting the weapon, but that's made difficult because he doesn't have normal eyes that can be depicted looking down. It's also why the lines of the weapon are sharper than his character lines, to present a focus for him and the piece overall.