DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant back!!

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DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant back!!

Post by syzhang28 »

https://m.nasdaq.com/article/chinas-dmg ... 0910-00193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is very, very bad news. There is no coming back from a business move like this. Will only be a matter of time (a short time) before DMG shuts down now. We will see if Dan Mintz is telling the truth about not being the same company (I think he's lying). If they are the same company, Valiant would be for sale. Hope Dinesh isn't too busy on the Bloodshot movie to buy them back :high-five:

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by Juki »

I just hope the best for Valiant in all of this mess. Hopefully Valiant is/or ends up in the hands of someone who cares about and wants to develop the characters.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by BugsySig »

Deja vu all over again
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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by Bl00dsh0t »

Fingers crossed Valiant somehow survives...

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by SuperMage »

syzhang28 wrote:https://m.nasdaq.com/article/chinas-dmg ... 0910-00193

This is very, very bad news. There is no coming back from a business move like this. Will only be a matter of time (a short time) before DMG shuts down now. We will see if Dan Mintz is telling the truth about not being the same company (I think he's lying). If they are the same company, Valiant would be for sale. Hope Dinesh isn't too busy on the Bloodshot movie to buy them back :high-five:
So, everything we see involving Chinese stock is actually Yinji Media's business activities in China. DMG Entertainment, run by Dan Mintz, is based in Los Angeles and does not actually participate in the Chinese stock market as far as we know. DMG Entertainment and Media, parent company of DMG and Yinji, had a market cap of $850M recently. $617M of those assets are currently frozen by Chinese courts. That leaves $233M in available shares for DMG to trade, and profit with. Yinji Media has failed to pay loans valued at $14.5M to a financial firm, $17M to two separate Singaporean casinos, and now it has been revealed that Yinji owes $61.76M for a commercial paper issue. As far as we know Pter Xiao Wenge, Chairman of DMG Entertainment and Media, is $93.26M in debt to four separate businesses. Somehow, Yinji Media is incapable of paying back its $93.26M debt.

I doubt that Dinesh/Hivemind will be the ones to buy Valiant is the company goes up for sale. If that sales happens it will most likely happen in 2020. The most likely cause for a sale would be Dan Mintz deciding that blockbuster films are too financially risky without having the Yinji Media money to fall back on. Haim Saban did the same thing when Power Rangers (2017) underperformed at the box office. Investment groups are quick to get rid of investments that aren't making them money. If Bloodshot (2020) is a box office hit, keep in mind Bloodshot's revenue will be split between Hivemind, Sony, DMG, and the cast and crew, then it's possible Dan Mintz will hold onto the IPs for as long as they're profitable to him.

Without Yinji Media, DMG Entertainment's real revenue is likely a lot less than Dan Mintz wants us to think it is. Ignore everything from China. That money is gone. It's all tied up in Yinji, and Yinji is going to be shut down soon at this rate. DMG Entertainment's only source of income outside of Yinji Media is from VR games, Super League Gaming, and its recent film Blockers. VR games rarely make more than $250,000 per game, Super League only earns $2.8M per year, and Blockers earned $93M in the box office. That's all the money DMG is making without Yinji.

I think the issue is less of DMG going bankrupt, DMG (LA) is still making money, but of DMG not having enough money to finance multiple blockbuster films without Yinji Media's interest free loans. We should treat Yinji Media as separate doomed company, and DMG Entertainment is its smaller sister company. So small that it's impossible to find DMG Entertainment's real stock.

Peter Xiao's debt:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ ... ge-1135580
https://m.nasdaq.com/article/chinas-dmg ... 0910-00193
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/07/16 ... rtainment/

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by Shadowman99 »

I'm not going to pretend that I fully understand the financial situation underpinning the whole affair here, but the way I'm seeing the situation I'd be surprised if the Bloodshot movie ever even hits the screens at this rate, never mind any other planned movies or tv series.

When I first heard news of the DMG takeover I gave VEI 5 years tops before it either disappeared off the marketplace or got bought out by another company, but right now I have the feeling that we're looking more likely at a maximum one year time window before either of these scenarios occur :?
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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by markie7235 »

Shadowman99 wrote:I'm not going to pretend that I fully understand the financial situation underpinning the whole affair here, but the way I'm seeing the situation I'd be surprised if the Bloodshot movie ever even hits the screens at this rate, never mind any other planned movies or tv series.

When I first heard news of the DMG takeover I gave VEI 5 years tops before it either disappeared off the marketplace or got bought out by another company, but right now I have the feeling that we're looking more likely at a maximum one year time window before either of these scenarios occur :?
Basically all the fears about DMG stock price have nothing to do with DMG Entertainment LA (where Dan Mintz is), aside from does Mintz have enough capital to actually produce these block buster movies.

I'm no expert on how Hollywood works as far as funding, but my assumption for the Bloodshot movie is Sony will carry most of the cost, but also get most of the profit after paying actors/actresses, crew, etc. DMG can always license out their IPs, like Marvel did in the early days, to avoid carrying most of the cost. It also means they aren't making tons of money off of the success either, but it's still revenue. The downside, like what you saw happen with Marvel, is that if DMG/Valiant ends up in a strong financial state then in the future, if they've licensed out these IPs to various media outlets, it makes it really difficult to put together a cinematic universe since you may no longer have access to your full roster of characters.

Honestly, I'm not sure it matters. I think everything will come down to the Bloodshot movie. If it does well, there will be more interest in Valiant IPs to make media ventures on, and if it doesn't, than sadly don't expect much else on the movie front, and I think DMG will look to sell off the Valiant brand quickly if it is no longer a viable revenue source through media. While the idea of a sell off might be appealing to Valiant fans, under these circumstances, it would be a very poor outcome. First, you need to hope someone buys it who cares. Second, they would need to quickly turn it into a profitable company, because unless the buyer has a lot of capital they want to invest into it, paying the staff and talent could become challenging. Third, if one of your biggest character IPs just flopped at the box office, it's going to be some time before it's worth trying again, and that could scare off certain interested buying parties that would be more beneficial to own the Valiant IP.

The best possible outcome is the movie comes out, does well, then DMG sells to a worthy owner, and Valiant returns to its roots and other media projects continue. However, I still worry about Valiant at this point as a comic branch (and even media branch). While I feel Dinesh did a great job rebooting the Valiant Universe, I still feel the lack of worthwhile and interesting antagonists in the Valiant universe really limit the number of media projects and wealth of materials to work with. Unless each movie is just going to be Valiant hero vs Valiant hero. Valiant has always been strong on the development of their heroes. But all the conflict is internal to the characters, and they've not broken any new ground on interesting antagonists. As far as Antagonists go, their best one is still Master Darque, and that was true even in VH1 in terms of an antagonist that carried weight across numerous heroes. Imagine if the only Marvel Villain was Doctor Doom...and that's it. Would get pretty boring, and that's how I feel about Valiant these days....good writing, but it only keeps me interested so long. I mean Rampage was suppose to be the next big bad for Bloodshot, and out of the 12 issues, he only engaged in what, 2, maybe 3 of those 12 books? Not a solid showing, just saying

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by nycjadie »

Sony is producing Bloodshot. Not sure what the rev share is, if any. Valiant might get nothing.

DMG US says it is independent from DMG CN, but that's very unlikely to be the case. DMG US is funded by CN, and the ownership of the companies are probably intertwined to the point that it doesn't matter. Who runs the board of DMG US? Likely it's going to be the parent in CN.

DMG CN can't pay its bills, and doesn't think its going to be profitable in the future. It owes a lot of money. That's not good. It will either have to cut costs by (a) cutting people, (b) cutting projects, and/or (c) selling assets. Likely it will have to do all of those.

People leaving Valiant after the acquisition are probably doing it for a variety of reasons beyond mere control of the shares. They might be worried about job security. Employees jumping ship is a really bad sign for a company, as they tend to have better insight than those out of the company.

I'm not preaching doom and gloom, but things look pretty bleak for DMG, and I would imagine that Valiant will be negatively impacted at some point, how severe I have no idea.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by syzhang28 »

nycjadie wrote:Sony is producing Bloodshot. Not sure what the rev share is, if any. Valiant might get nothing.

DMG US says it is independent from DMG CN, but that's very unlikely to be the case. DMG US is funded by CN, and the ownership of the companies are probably intertwined to the point that it doesn't matter. Who runs the board of DMG US? Likely it's going to be the parent in CN.

DMG CN can't pay its bills, and doesn't think its going to be profitable in the future. It owes a lot of money. That's not good. It will either have to cut costs by (a) cutting people, (b) cutting projects, and/or (c) selling assets. Likely it will have to do all of those.

People leaving Valiant after the acquisition are probably doing it for a variety of reasons beyond mere control of the shares. They might be worried about job security. Employees jumping ship is a really bad sign for a company, as they tend to have better insight than those out of the company.

I'm not preaching doom and gloom, but things look pretty bleak for DMG, and I would imagine that Valiant will be negatively impacted at some point, how severe I have no idea.
Agree with this. Saying DMG US and DMG CN are not connected so when one fails the other will be fine is believing the spin they've put on the situation in the last month. There are years of interviews and press releases talking about how they are the same company and DMG CN's finances help fund DMG US. Now that DMG CN is falling apart what else are they going to say? DMG US is doing damage control and distancing themselves.

Bloodshot is a train that has left the station. Sony is funding it. Dinesh is producing. Eric Heisserer wrote the script It looks like Valiant (post Dinesh) isn't even involved. Have we heard of anyone from Valiant on set? I'm betting it will be a success. Dinesh is a smart guy, who works hard and always has a plan. If you have been betting against him you've been losing your shirt. I'm betting on him. But no matter how big a success it is it won't help DMG. The millions or tens of millions that Valiant could see from a hit don't make a dent in the billions DMG has lost since they acquired Valiant and pushed everyone out.

I agree, all we can do is 1. hope the people who took over jobs from Dinesh, Warren, Atom, Hunter etc don't make too much of a mess 2. The Bloodshot movie is great 3. When Valiant is sold (not if by the looks of things) Dinesh is back in charge.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by markie7235 »

syzhang28 wrote:
nycjadie wrote:Sony is producing Bloodshot. Not sure what the rev share is, if any. Valiant might get nothing.

DMG US says it is independent from DMG CN, but that's very unlikely to be the case. DMG US is funded by CN, and the ownership of the companies are probably intertwined to the point that it doesn't matter. Who runs the board of DMG US? Likely it's going to be the parent in CN.

DMG CN can't pay its bills, and doesn't think its going to be profitable in the future. It owes a lot of money. That's not good. It will either have to cut costs by (a) cutting people, (b) cutting projects, and/or (c) selling assets. Likely it will have to do all of those.

People leaving Valiant after the acquisition are probably doing it for a variety of reasons beyond mere control of the shares. They might be worried about job security. Employees jumping ship is a really bad sign for a company, as they tend to have better insight than those out of the company.

I'm not preaching doom and gloom, but things look pretty bleak for DMG, and I would imagine that Valiant will be negatively impacted at some point, how severe I have no idea.
Agree with this. Saying DMG US and DMG CN are not connected so when one fails the other will be fine is believing the spin they've put on the situation in the last month. There are years of interviews and press releases talking about how they are the same company and DMG CN's finances help fund DMG US. Now that DMG CN is falling apart what else are they going to say? DMG US is doing damage control and distancing themselves.

Bloodshot is a train that has left the station. Sony is funding it. Dinesh is producing. Eric Heisserer wrote the script It looks like Valiant (post Dinesh) isn't even involved. Have we heard of anyone from Valiant on set? I'm betting it will be a success. Dinesh is a smart guy, who works hard and always has a plan. If you have been betting against him you've been losing your shirt. I'm betting on him. But no matter how big a success it is it won't help DMG. The millions or tens of millions that Valiant could see from a hit don't make a dent in the billions DMG has lost since they acquired Valiant and pushed everyone out.

I agree, all we can do is 1. hope the people who took over jobs from Dinesh, Warren, Atom, Hunter etc don't make too much of a mess 2. The Bloodshot movie is great 3. When Valiant is sold (not if by the looks of things) Dinesh is back in charge.
I'm not betting against Dinesh, but Sony hasn't had the greatest track record with super hero movies is all I'll say. I hope to god this time is different. Getting Vin Diesel really helped (and I don't even like him as an actor) because it's a name people recognize that will see a movie just because he's in it. At the end of the day, for this movie to succeed even with Dinesh, Sony will need to market the hell out of it.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by BugsySig »

I think the biggest concern for most people here (meaning VFans.com), other than DMG outright going out of business and selling off VALIANT and it’s IPs, should be that if there’s no money to be made via film and TV, then DMG has no motivation to continue publishing the comics.

They could license them out somewhere else (Gee, I can’t wait for Dynamite to put out a few lackluster miniseries with Alex Ross covers, only to see it disappear and reappear every 2-3 years!). But it’s more likely they just bury the IPs until something forces their hand or they do go under. Then it’s off to the auction house again!

Maybe it’s for the best. I’m not a fan of the direction things are/have been taking, and I don’t see things getting better under corporate management. Maybe Dino or some other adventurous young entrepreneur will swoop in to save VALIANT again. Or maybe it should be allowed to die an honorable death before its memory is dishonored yet again (I’m looking at your rotting corpse, Acclaim).
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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by betterthanezra »

syzhang28 wrote:
nycjadie wrote:Sony is producing Bloodshot. Not sure what the rev share is, if any. Valiant might get nothing.

DMG US says it is independent from DMG CN, but that's very unlikely to be the case. DMG US is funded by CN, and the ownership of the companies are probably intertwined to the point that it doesn't matter. Who runs the board of DMG US? Likely it's going to be the parent in CN.

DMG CN can't pay its bills, and doesn't think its going to be profitable in the future. It owes a lot of money. That's not good. It will either have to cut costs by (a) cutting people, (b) cutting projects, and/or (c) selling assets. Likely it will have to do all of those.

People leaving Valiant after the acquisition are probably doing it for a variety of reasons beyond mere control of the shares. They might be worried about job security. Employees jumping ship is a really bad sign for a company, as they tend to have better insight than those out of the company.

I'm not preaching doom and gloom, but things look pretty bleak for DMG, and I would imagine that Valiant will be negatively impacted at some point, how severe I have no idea.
Agree with this. Saying DMG US and DMG CN are not connected so when one fails the other will be fine is believing the spin they've put on the situation in the last month. There are years of interviews and press releases talking about how they are the same company and DMG CN's finances help fund DMG US. Now that DMG CN is falling apart what else are they going to say? DMG US is doing damage control and distancing themselves.

Bloodshot is a train that has left the station. Sony is funding it. Dinesh is producing. Eric Heisserer wrote the script It looks like Valiant (post Dinesh) isn't even involved. Have we heard of anyone from Valiant on set? I'm betting it will be a success. Dinesh is a smart guy, who works hard and always has a plan. If you have been betting against him you've been losing your shirt. I'm betting on him. But no matter how big a success it is it won't help DMG. The millions or tens of millions that Valiant could see from a hit don't make a dent in the billions DMG has lost since they acquired Valiant and pushed everyone out.

I agree, all we can do is 1. hope the people who took over jobs from Dinesh, Warren, Atom, Hunter etc don't make too much of a mess 2. The Bloodshot movie is great 3. When Valiant is sold (not if by the looks of things) Dinesh is back in charge.
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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by kinggirlfriend »

BugsySig wrote:Maybe Dino or some other adventurous young entrepreneur will swoop in to save VALIANT again. Or maybe it should be allowed to die an honorable death before its memory is dishonored yet again (I’m looking at your rotting corpse, Acclaim).
I'd be fine with this. I'd rather see it end on a high note than continue to pump out lackluster stories. Hopefully Dinesh will gain creative control again someday.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by jmatt »

Like Shadowman99, I'm not gonna say I know anything about the whys and wherefores of the finances. But Valiant has value as an IP property, and with the clamor for content between Netflix, Amazon, Disney and all of the other media players I'm confident that even if DMG tanked, Valiant would find a home.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by TheFerg714 »

Just to preface this... I have zero understanding of anything having to do with the stock market, or money in general.

To the people saying "DMG Entertainment is different than DMG" (or something like that), I just typed in DMG Entertainment stock into Google, and it looks just about as bad as the Chinese stock market. Their numbers dropped significantly around July, and have just kept falling, with a small bump just last week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dmg+ent ... e&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

On another note, is there any evidence for Dinesh wanting to buy back Valiant? I mean, it would be amazing, but is there any precedent for this? Last I heard, he was kind of ready to move on. And now that all of these Beyond Valiant and 2019 titles are in the pipeline, where are they going to go? Will the creators just be screwed?

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by markie7235 »

TheFerg714 wrote:Just to preface this... I have zero understanding of anything having to do with the stock market, or money in general.

To the people saying "DMG Entertainment is different than DMG" (or something like that), I just typed in DMG Entertainment stock into Google, and it looks just about as bad as the Chinese stock market. Their numbers dropped significantly around July, and have just kept falling, with a small bump just last week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dmg+ent ... e&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

On another note, is there any evidence for Dinesh wanting to buy back Valiant? I mean, it would be amazing, but is there any precedent for this? Last I heard, he was kind of ready to move on. And now that all of these Beyond Valiant and 2019 titles are in the pipeline, where are they going to go? Will the creators just be screwed?
Kind of what I was wondering....Has Dinesh ever indicated he would or even wants to buy Valiant back if it became available? I know this is a pipe dream so many on this site have, but having owned my own business previously, I'm not sure if the guy I sold my business to approached me offering to sell my business back to me that I'd even want to re-purchase it. My situation is a little different than Dino's, I chose to sell at a decent profit from what I started the business at, and the business continues to perform well and I stay in contact with the new owner. But when I sold, I did so with the intent of investing in new things and starting a new chapter in my life. I'm not sure I'd want to re-acquire a retail store, as I'm making more money off the other investments I put the money towards. Dinesh did a good job of re-vitalizing and reinventing a forgotten IP (forgotten by many, not all), but he may feel done with it for many reasons. Given how things went down, I'm not sure he'd want to do it a second time. If DMG goes under and Valiant gets sold, I think the better hope is that someone like Dinesh with love of the IP, vision, creativity, etc buys it, but I think hoping for Dino to re-acquire is a very long shot. I know if I was Dinesh, unless I could acquire it 100% for the same cost as what I was paid out or less, I would probably steer clear. My business I was only a 50% owner, and unless I would be 100% owner the second time around, there's no way I'd take on a partner a second time.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by syzhang28 »

Don't know if Dinesh would want to come back but we do know he loves Valiant as much as anyone and we can predict that he might do it to show Dan Mintz how it's done. But more interestingly! Oh wow. Never noticed this until you posted this chart. DMG's problems started right as they screwed Dinesh over. I would say that's a coincidence but it seems like to much of a coincidence!!

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by syzhang28 »

Here's proof of the timing. It's crazy. Instant karma?

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by greg »

syzhang28 wrote:Here's proof of the timing. It's crazy. Instant karma?
Actually, it makes me wonder if the announcement about acquiring Valiant caused some DMG creditors to point out... "uh, you owe us money". Since we now know the stock price falling is due to debts. :hm:

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by markie7235 »

greg wrote:
syzhang28 wrote:Here's proof of the timing. It's crazy. Instant karma?
Actually, it makes me wonder if the announcement about acquiring Valiant caused some DMG creditors to point out... "uh, you owe us money". Since we now know the stock price falling is due to debts. :hm:
More likely to believe this than stocks tumbled because Dinesh was ousted. No offense meant to Dinesh, but investor's probably don't know who Dinesh is or care. What they do care about is major leadership shakeups, financial performance, and money being spent that isn't there to spend. While Dinesh being pushed out may have some impact as he could be viewed as a leader in Valiant, I honestly doubt it. Outside of this community and those who know Dinesh, the only story told of the situation is that DMG acquired it. There's no mention of hostile takeover, bad blood, etc. Hardly a reason for investor's to care.....unless all their investor's were Valiant comic fans, which I find astronomically unlikely.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by SuperMage »

TheFerg714 wrote:Just to preface this... I have zero understanding of anything having to do with the stock market, or money in general.

To the people saying "DMG Entertainment is different than DMG" (or something like that), I just typed in DMG Entertainment stock into Google, and it looks just about as bad as the Chinese stock market. Their numbers dropped significantly around July, and have just kept falling, with a small bump just last week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dmg+ent ... e&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image
That's not DMG Entertainment's stock. That's DMG Entertainment and Media Co.'s stock. DMG Entertainment and Media Co. is the parent company of DMG Entertainment and Yinji Media. What you're looking at is the Bejing based parent company's stock which primarily consists of Yinji's assets. It's seems to be impossible to find the real stock for either DMG Entertainment or Yinji Media though.

It's highly unlikely DMG Entertainment is actually worth more than $11 million, if treated as a separate business from Yinji Media.

Believe it or not, Valiant Entertainment might be their most profitable business, and yes I'm specifically talking about the comics. Let's say Valiant sells an average of 48,206 comics per month, generating a revenue of $192,341.94 per month. If we treat that as the average, then Valiant Entertainment earns $2,308,103.28 per year on comic book sales in gross revenue. Super League Gaming makes a max of $2 million annually, and it's unlikely Arturus makes more than $1 million annually if we assume that the four games they've made each earn the $250,000 average . Blockers, the only profitable film produced by DMG Entertainment in its four year history, earned $93.7 million against a $21 million budget. The estimated revenue from that film, $72.7 million, would have been split between the cast, Universal, and the three other production companies who financed the film. DMG Entertainment possibly earned $5,961,400 from their respective cut of the profits dedicated towards the film's producers. DMG Entertainment isn't even close to making Disney money. They're barely making Rooster Teeth money.

The same thing will happen with Bloodshot (2020). I'm willing to bet that a good portion of Bloodshot's budget is being paid for by Sony and other production companies. That means DMG will be forced to turn over a larger percentage of the film's income to those other production companies. However much Bloodshot makes, DMG will only see a fraction of those profits. Those profits will be even less for future Valiant films if DMG is forced to ask for loans from other production companies to finance these films. If Bloodshot is a success it will be because of Dinesh's creative decisions. Post-Bloodshot will be pure DMG Entertainment, and Dan Mintz doesn't exactly have an eye for quality.

Yinji Media will collapse within the next three years, or it will be transferred to new ownership. It's inevitable when the chairman is spending money he doesn't have on hookers and blow. This will likely lead to the dissolution of DMG Entertainment and Media Co., and result in DMG Entertainment becoming an independent company. A company whose net worth is most likely $11 million, being generous by the way, attempting to finance multi-million dollar film/t.v. projects. There's no way in hell Harbinger and Faith are getting made. The second Dan Mintz can sell Valiant for $100 million, he'll take the offer. Assuming a DMG Bloodshot sequel doesn't bomb in the box office, reducing the value of the universe as a whole.

At this point it's not clear how much Valiant will be worth post-Bloodshot. People have a habit of exaggerating IP value for comic books properties. Valiant has a lot of potential value, but not a lot of actual market value. Maybe Valiant could be worth a lot, depending on Bloodshot's box office results, or maybe it'll end up sold for pennies. Power Rangers sold for $522 million with over twenty years of t.v. history, merchandise sales, and three separate feature films. The combined box office results of all three Power Rangers films equals around $210,925,570. The franchise has had consistent, if moderate, success over its lengthy history. A franchise's legacy also plays a big role in determining its value. Brand familiarity is a big draw for potential buyers. Everyone's heard of the Power Rangers. No one knows who Shadowman, X-O Manowar, or Ninjak are. If Bloodshot is a hit, but Bloodshot 2 is a bomb then Valiant will probably sell for cheap. We've already seen this happen when Acclaim paid $65 million for Valiant in the 90s. In today's money that would be $118 million. Acclaim's mismanagement of the Valiant brand is what lead to the decrease in its overall value, making it possible for Dinesh to raise funds and buy the Valiant Universe. When Dan Mintz sells Valiant it'll likely be worth somewhere between $118 million and $522 million. It could be worth a lot less, depending on what happens post-Bloodshot.

We also don't know anyone who would want the Valiant Universe outside of companies already invested in Valiant. Let's look at a similar example in another industry, the video game industry. Kingdoms of Amalur was released in 2012 with the intention of spawning a multi-game franchise building up to an MMO. It sold over 1.2 million copies, but fell sort of the company's projected goal of 3 million copies sold. Amalur's developers owed money to Rhode Island as part a loan used to form the company. They were unable to make a million dollar payment, and were forced to dip into their operating expenses and personal funds to pay back the loan leading to the company's bankruptcy. This happened in 2012. The IP rights to Kingdoms of Amalur was only recently purchased this week, six years later. Sure, Amalur had potential, but no IP history. No one was interested in buying the rights to a property that was only a moderate success in a sea of action-role playing games. Its potential didn't mean jack to potential buyers. A single installment does not make a multi-media franchise. There could be a gap between Bloodshot, and future Valiant projects if DMG Entertainment is incapable of financing those future projects due to the loss of Yinji Media. It'll likely be a slow death though. Long enough to give someone time to swoop in and buy Valiant. I don't see Dan Mintz letting go of those properties until he's sufficiently run them into the ground first.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by nycjadie »

My understanding is that DMG has nothing to do with the Sony movie. Perhaps they will get a credit, but the two companies have nothing to do with one another. I understand the options on Bloodshot are very old, so you have a situation where it's very possible that Valiant/DMG will get zero $$$ from the movie, and may not even have control of the marketing or final product.

Super happy that Dinesh is on the set to oversee some part of it.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by DirtbagSailor »

nycjadie wrote:My understanding is that DMG has nothing to do with the Sony movie. Perhaps they will get a credit, but the two companies have nothing to do with one another. I understand the options on Bloodshot are very old, so you have a situation where it's very possible that Valiant/DMG will get zero $$$ from the movie, and may not even have control of the marketing or final product.

Super happy that Dinesh is on the set to oversee some part of it.
:clap:

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by markie7235 »

nycjadie wrote:My understanding is that DMG has nothing to do with the Sony movie. Perhaps they will get a credit, but the two companies have nothing to do with one another. I understand the options on Bloodshot are very old, so you have a situation where it's very possible that Valiant/DMG will get zero $$$ from the movie, and may not even have control of the marketing or final product.

Super happy that Dinesh is on the set to oversee some part of it.
Interesting idea, but if the options on the movie were made by Valiant/Dinesh, then DMG should benefit and receive profit from the movie. DMG, as I understand, was an investor and part owner when Dinesh purchased Valiant as they funded part of the purchase. Therefore, any licensing/options made after that point would be on behalf of Valiant, which is now owned by DMG, therefore DMG is still entitled to any royalties/profits from those deals.

The only way I could see DMG not getting paid from the Bloodshot movie is if the movie makes $0 OR the licensing/options were made prior during the Acclaim/VH1 years, thus prior to Dinesh/DMG ownership....Though I'm not even sure that would be true or possible, because that would imply that Sony actually owns the Bloodshot IP and not Valiant.

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Re: DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant bac

Post by syzhang28 »

markie7235 wrote:
nycjadie wrote:My understanding is that DMG has nothing to do with the Sony movie. Perhaps they will get a credit, but the two companies have nothing to do with one another. I understand the options on Bloodshot are very old, so you have a situation where it's very possible that Valiant/DMG will get zero $$$ from the movie, and may not even have control of the marketing or final product.

Super happy that Dinesh is on the set to oversee some part of it.
Interesting idea, but if the options on the movie were made by Valiant/Dinesh, then DMG should benefit and receive profit from the movie. DMG, as I understand, was an investor and part owner when Dinesh purchased Valiant as they funded part of the purchase. Therefore, any licensing/options made after that point would be on behalf of Valiant, which is now owned by DMG, therefore DMG is still entitled to any royalties/profits from those deals.

The only way I could see DMG not getting paid from the Bloodshot movie is if the movie makes $0 OR the licensing/options were made prior during the Acclaim/VH1 years, thus prior to Dinesh/DMG ownership....Though I'm not even sure that would be true or possible, because that would imply that Sony actually owns the Bloodshot IP and not Valiant.
Dinesh purchased Valiant in 2004. DMG invested in Dinesh's Valiant in 2015 or 2016. Loooong after Dinesh bought it and fixed it up, very much after the Bloodshot movie was in the works between Dinesh & Sony and much after comics started being published again etc. Now that DMG fully own Valiant though they probably get whatever deal Dinesh had negotiated with Sony which was rumored to be a strong deal for Valiant. However, also rumored is that Dan Mintz gave up a lot of the financial parts of the Sony deal on Bloodshot so that he could lock in his own credit on the movie.


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