DMG about to collapse? Please let Dinesh buy Valiant back!!

[slym2none]

I just hope the best for Valiant in all of this mess. Hopefully Valiant is/or ends up in the hands of someone who cares about and wants to develop the characters.

How many times have we heard this for Valiant now???

:facepalm:



-slym

[Shadowman99]

I think the biggest concern for most people here (meaning VFans.com), other than DMG outright going out of business and selling off VALIANT and it’s IPs, should be that if there’s no money to be made via film and TV, then DMG has no motivation to continue publishing the comics.

They could license them out somewhere else (Gee, I can’t wait for Dynamite (sucks!) to put out a few lackluster miniseries with Alex Ross covers, only to see it disappear and reappear every 2-3 years!). But it’s more likely they just bury the IPs until something forces their hand or they do go under. Then it’s off to the auction house again!

Maybe it’s for the best. I’m not a fan of the direction things are/have been taking, and I don’t see things getting better under corporate management. Maybe Dino or some other adventurous young entrepreneur will swoop in to save VALIANT again. Or maybe it should be allowed to die an honorable death before its memory is dishonored yet again (I’m looking at your rotting corpse, Acclaim).

This is where my mind's at right now. I'm happy to sit and enjoy the ride until it comes to a stop, and then Valiant and its IP is going to get buried and forgotten, or licenced/bought out by another company, and that brings with it a whole sack full of uncertainty.

I'm happy with what Valiant have put out to date. If the company tanks within the year I've still got a really cool comic collection sitting underneath my desk.

[ShadowTuga]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

[Bl00dsh0t]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

Anything is possible right? If one of the Big 2 did purchase the IP's, at least there's a chance we'd still see these characters on a somewhat regular basis... but I'd rather the characters remain in a self-contained universe.

[WrathOfArmstrong]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

Anything is possible right? If one of the Big 2 did purchase the IP's, at least there's a chance we'd still see these characters on a somewhat regular basis... but I'd rather the characters remain in a self-contained universe.

insane theory time...this is what DOOMSDAY CLOCK IS BUILDING TOWARDS!

[Chiclo]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

NO! That would be very bad. Remember the CrossGen reboot from like... 9 years ago? Wildstorm is an exception to the rule and only then because they are pet projects of Jim Lee - were he not a high executive at DC, things would be very different.

[buff-beardo]

Maybe it’s just time to let it be. VALIANT & VEI each had a few extrodinary years. 1991 & 2012 were great! I look forward to another nice run around 2030.

[syzhang28]

Maybe it’s just time to let it be. VALIANT & VEI each had a few extrodinary years. 1991 & 2012 were great! I look forward to another nice run around 2030.

Quoted for truth.

Loved Valiant 1991-1994
Loved Valiant 2012-2017
Will love Valiant 2025-?

[Shadowman99]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

Anything is possible right? If one of the Big 2 did purchase the IP's, at least there's a chance we'd still see these characters on a somewhat regular basis... but I'd rather the characters remain in a self-contained universe.

The original postulation is, without a doubt, entirely possible.

If the Valiant IP were ever to be integrated into the universe of another company then I would, with no shadow of a doubt whatsoever, be finished with Valiant as a reader. I've been aware of the Marvel and DC universes since I was a child and have had no interest in develving into them short of Ghost Rider, so it's safe to say that if I had ever wanted to have read anything by these two companies then I would have already done so. If the Valiant characters end up kicking it with Iron Man or Batman then that's me done as a Valiant reader.

[nonplayer]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

Anything is possible right? If one of the Big 2 did purchase the IP's, at least there's a chance we'd still see these characters on a somewhat regular basis... but I'd rather the characters remain in a self-contained universe.

The original postulation is, without a doubt, entirely possible.

If the Valiant IP were ever to be integrated into the universe of another company then I would, with no shadow of a doubt whatsoever, be finished with Valiant as a reader. I've been aware of the Marvel and DC universes since I was a child and have had no interest in develving into them short of Ghost Rider, so it's safe to say that if I had ever wanted to have read anything by these two companies then I would have already done so. If the Valiant characters end up kicking it with Iron Man or Batman then that's me done as a Valiant reader.

Me to. And 100% if Disney buys them out. And same if that company that bought turok magnus and solar acquires them. And especilly if dinomite (sucks) buys them.
I am not a comic book fan Im a fan of valiant except I do get the walking dead.

[Chiclo]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

Anything is possible right? If one of the Big 2 did purchase the IP's, at least there's a chance we'd still see these characters on a somewhat regular basis... but I'd rather the characters remain in a self-contained universe.

You just want a goat on first-name basis with the Legion of Superheroes.

[myron]

Bombshell question...

Anyone here thinks this could go the Wildstorm, Fawcett, Charlton, etc, etc, way? One of the Big 2 just buys the IPs and stuff them in their own universes?

Anything is possible right? If one of the Big 2 did purchase the IP's, at least there's a chance we'd still see these characters on a somewhat regular basis... but I'd rather the characters remain in a self-contained universe.

You just want a goat on first-name basis with the Legion of Superheroes.

[BugsySig]

Because the IPs are now in the hands of a large corporation, is it more likely they go bankrupt and wind up at auction again, or they sell them off early to try and cash in while they can?

Not sure anyone knows the answer, but I think either is more likely than DMG publishing VALIANT for another 6+ years.

[GammaJosh]

Believe it or not, Valiant Entertainment might be their most profitable business, and yes I'm specifically talking about the comics. Let's say Valiant sells an average of 48,206 comics per month, generating a revenue of $192,341.94 per month. If we treat that as the average, then Valiant Entertainment earns $2,308,103.28 per year on comic book sales in gross revenue.

That's highly unlikely. What you've calculated there is the retail value of every single comic they pre-sold. That's money taken in at the LCS or online retailer level, and it's assuming that every copy ordered is actually sold and not ending up in dollar bins and hauled around to comic conventions for years.

Diamond's discount is roughly 50%, so Diamond would be taking in $2 per issue or about $96,000 in your example. What is Valiant's cut? Does anyone know how much Diamond pays publishers per issue? You also have to subtract their printing costs, creative cost, employee salaries, overhead like rent on their Manhattan office (not cheap), etc.

Creative costs per page must be at least $300/page, probably higher. 22 pages per issue x 7 issues per month x $300 = $46,200.

Valiant has how many salaried employees, and salaried in NYC no less? Let's just take the 17 people listed on the website, plus an extremely low estimate of $60,000/year average annual salary (low considering some of those 17 are VPs whose salaries would throw the average much higher in reality). That's 17 people x $5,000 monthly salary = $85,000 monthly salary. Now costs are already above the monthly print comic income.

How about that office in Manhattan? Estimating 2,000 sq.ft. x average Manhattan office rent of ~$72/sq.ft. annually divided by 12 months = $12,000.

You also have to add in promotional costs, travel, etc.

On the flip side of the equation you have some unknown amount of direct market trade sales, book market sales, digital comic sales, and licensing. I would be surprised if all these added up to more than the monthly direct market new comics sales. Valiant may have a better margin on digital sales, but digital readership is estimated to be 10-15% of direct market sales, so that's a drop in the bucket (especially since the number of print comics sold is inflated by all the variants). I'm sure the licensing is also a drop in the bucket for now, until a successful mass media projects comes out.

My main point is that Valiant's publishing division is definitely not DMG's most profitable business, and has almost certainly been losing money this entire time since 2012. The whole thing is premised on getting mass media projects off the ground. The comics are a loss-leader, a marketing expense, and a product development expense.

[nycjadie]

No disrespect for Valiant or its business, but I highly doubt the publishing/licensing arm is profitable yet.

[SuperMage]

Believe it or not, Valiant Entertainment might be their most profitable business, and yes I'm specifically talking about the comics. Let's say Valiant sells an average of 48,206 comics per month, generating a revenue of $192,341.94 per month. If we treat that as the average, then Valiant Entertainment earns $2,308,103.28 per year on comic book sales in gross revenue.

That's highly unlikely. What you've calculated there is the retail value of every single comic they pre-sold. That's money taken in at the LCS or online retailer level, and it's assuming that every copy ordered is actually sold and not ending up in dollar bins and hauled around to comic conventions for years.

Diamond's discount is roughly 50%, so Diamond would be taking in $2 per issue or about $96,000 in your example. What is Valiant's cut? Does anyone know how much Diamond pays publishers per issue? You also have to subtract their printing costs, creative cost, employee salaries, overhead like rent on their Manhattan office (not cheap), etc.

Creative costs per page must be at least $300/page, probably higher. 22 pages per issue x 7 issues per month x $300 = $46,200.

Valiant has how many salaried employees, and salaried in NYC no less? Let's just take the 17 people listed on the website, plus an extremely low estimate of $60,000/year average annual salary (low considering some of those 17 are VPs whose salaries would throw the average much higher in reality). That's 17 people x $5,000 monthly salary = $85,000 monthly salary. Now costs are already above the monthly print comic income.

How about that office in Manhattan? Estimating 2,000 sq.ft. x average Manhattan office rent of ~$72/sq.ft. annually divided by 12 months = $12,000.

You also have to add in promotional costs, travel, etc.

On the flip side of the equation you have some unknown amount of direct market trade sales, book market sales, digital comic sales, and licensing. I would be surprised if all these added up to more than the monthly direct market new comics sales. Valiant may have a better margin on digital sales, but digital readership is estimated to be 10-15% of direct market sales, so that's a drop in the bucket (especially since the number of print comics sold is inflated by all the variants). I'm sure the licensing is also a drop in the bucket for now, until a successful mass media projects comes out.

My main point is that Valiant's publishing division is definitely not DMG's most profitable business, and has almost certainly been losing money this entire time since 2012. The whole thing is premised on getting mass media projects off the ground. The comics are a loss-leader, a marketing expense, and a product development expense.

Yeah, I mentioned that the number I came up with didn't include expenses. Part of me was hoping they were at least earning a small profit. At least enough to keep the doors open. Though for the record I was talking about DMG Entertainment. Not DMG Entertainment and Media Co. Ltd. DMG Entertainment's money is coming from Arcturus and Super League Gaming. Super League took a $15 million dollar loan, and isn't even close to paying that back yet. Also Super League is purely in investment DMG made, they don't own Super League outright. If Valiant is losing money, then Arcturus is 100% in major debt right. VR games aren't profitable, at all. So while Valiant isn't profitable, neither is anything else Dan Mintz has invested in other than Blockers. Especially when you include DMG's long list of box office bombs which are sure to have cost them some serious cash.

My understanding is that DMG has nothing to do with the Sony movie. Perhaps they will get a credit, but the two companies have nothing to do with one another. I understand the options on Bloodshot are very old, so you have a situation where it's very possible that Valiant/DMG will get zero $$$ from the movie, and may not even have control of the marketing or final product.

Super happy that Dinesh is on the set to oversee some part of it.

Wasn't DMG involved in securing the Sony deal in the first place?

Because the IPs are now in the hands of a large corporation, is it more likely they go bankrupt and wind up at auction again, or they sell them off early to try and cash in while they can?

Not sure anyone knows the answer, but I think either is more likely than DMG publishing VALIANT for another 6+ years.

Given the circumstances, probably an auction. I might be wrong, but I think that's what this is leading to. DMG Entertainment and Media Co. Ltd will probably start selling assets not to repay their debt, but Valiant would most likely be the last one to go considering the Bloodshot movie coming out. The Chinese courts gave DMG a three year timeline to get their *SQUEE* together. Bloodshot comes out in under two years. Dan Mintz will probably shut down Valiant Entertainment before that happens. I guess we can be hopeful for two more years of comics, maybe. I'd hate it if DC or Marvel bought Valiant. The only reason why they buy superhero publishers is to eliminate the competition. The majority of the characters they buy end up collecting dust in their vaults. Who knows what'll happen in three years.

Edit: Early reviews for Venom seem to suggest another failure on Sony's hands. Might not be a good sign for things to come.

[Funcha]

What really sucks is that if Valiant goes under once again, I think the prospects for a successful reboot are pretty much nil. Fourth time's the charm? Not unless someone like Jim Lee or some HUGE names get involved next time around. Look how many times Dynamite keeps rebooting the Gold Key characters. Does anyone even care anymore? They've become more of a running joke than anything, I'm afraid.