When did Bloodshot enemy unit Chainsaw really first appear

[markie7235]

I'm seeing a lot of claims lately that Chainsaw first appeared in Bloodshot #3 Vol 2 both on boards and eBay listings

However, having recently re-read that series, I thought Chainsaw first appeared in Bloodshot #2 vol 2. They are mentioned in #2 as well as show up on the last page. I guess you could call it more of a cameo appearance, but the same logic has been used to justify Bloodshot's first appearance in Eternal Warrior #4 and also Jack Boniface (who shows up in one panel, not really as a feature, nor mentioned by name) first appearance being credited as X-O Manowar #4.

Even checking Valiant Wiki, the first appearance of the Chainsaw unit is credited in Bloodshot #2 vol 2.

So thoughts? Why is everyone now claiming it's issue #3? Are people not aware of the appearance in #2? Are some people just making a claim to try and jump up the price of a book they own in CGC 9.8?

Personally, Valiant has some of the most confusing crediting for 1st appearances, like War Mother in Book of Death #1 (for the record, I have scoured through every panel in that issue and cannot figure out who in there is supposedly War Mother). Sometimes people credit the first appearance when there's a cameo and other times not. Doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency. But this Chainsaw one is really confusing me, since their appearance in issue #2 isn't like some shadowy image...They are right there in full depiction and mentioned by unit name just pages earlier in the issue.

[TheeBaldMoose]

This could be a Hulk #180 vs #181 type of an issue. Sure, they get a cameo in the last pages, but aren't they highlighted on the cover of #3? Their first full appearance as well?

I guess it will depend on which is the more desirable, #2 or #3. I'm thinking #3 might be the more, simple based on the cover.

[markie7235]

This could be a Hulk #180 vs #181 type of an issue. Sure, they get a cameo in the last pages, but aren't they highlighted on the cover of #3? Their first full appearance as well?

I guess it will depend on which is the more desirable, #2 or #3. I'm thinking #3 might be the more, simple based on the cover.

See what you're saying, but by that logic, should Rai #0 be the first appearance of Bloodshot and not Eternal Warrior #4? I mean Bloodshot is not even named in EW4. I for one agree that the 1st appearance is EW#4 though.

The one that drives me the most nuts is X-O Manowar #4...Boniface is not even mentioned by name, shows up in one panel, and is off to the side and not even extremely visible, and yet this is his first appearance?!?

It just is odd sometimes when people tend to credit first appearances. By the prior logic applied in Valiant, Chainsaw should be Bloodshot#2 V2

Side note, for the same reason, I always thought it weird in Marvel that Venom's first appearance wasn't credited as ASM #299 since he is in several panels on the 2nd to last page, and full blown clear as day full body image in one panel on the entire last page. I guess saying his 1st app in #300 sounds sexier because being #300 makes it sound more special

[mkb28]

I'm seeing a lot of claims lately that Chainsaw first appeared in Bloodshot #3 Vol 2 both on boards and eBay listings

However, having recently re-read that series, I thought Chainsaw first appeared in Bloodshot #2 vol 2. They are mentioned in #2 as well as show up on the last page. I guess you could call it more of a cameo appearance, but the same logic has been used to justify Bloodshot's first appearance in Eternal Warrior #4 and also Jack Boniface (who shows up in one panel, not really as a feature, nor mentioned by name) first appearance being credited as X-O Manowar #4.

Even checking Valiant Wiki, the first appearance of the Chainsaw unit is credited in Bloodshot #2 vol 2.

So thoughts? Why is everyone now claiming it's issue #3? Are people not aware of the appearance in #2? Are some people just making a claim to try and jump up the price of a book they own in CGC 9.8?

Personally, Valiant has some of the most confusing crediting for 1st appearances, like War Mother in Book of Death #1 (for the record, I have scoured through every panel in that issue and cannot figure out who in there is supposedly War Mother). Sometimes people credit the first appearance when there's a cameo and other times not. Doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency. But this Chainsaw one is really confusing me, since their appearance in issue #2 isn't like some shadowy image...They are right there in full depiction and mentioned by unit name just pages earlier in the issue.

I guess I am the “some people” you are referring to since there are only two copies in CGC 9.8 and I am the only one selling a copy. When I bought the slab, it was described to me as the 1st appearance of Chainsaw and rumored to be a villain in the upcoming BloodShot movie. I never heard anything about issue 2. I also have no idea if Chainsaw will be in the movie, but I am selling my slab to help raise money for college tuition for my son. I took a gamble and paid a good chunk of money for this slab, so here is the chance for someone else to make that gamble.

[markie7235]

I'm seeing a lot of claims lately that Chainsaw first appeared in Bloodshot #3 Vol 2 both on boards and eBay listings

However, having recently re-read that series, I thought Chainsaw first appeared in Bloodshot #2 vol 2. They are mentioned in #2 as well as show up on the last page. I guess you could call it more of a cameo appearance, but the same logic has been used to justify Bloodshot's first appearance in Eternal Warrior #4 and also Jack Boniface (who shows up in one panel, not really as a feature, nor mentioned by name) first appearance being credited as X-O Manowar #4.

Even checking Valiant Wiki, the first appearance of the Chainsaw unit is credited in Bloodshot #2 vol 2.

So thoughts? Why is everyone now claiming it's issue #3? Are people not aware of the appearance in #2? Are some people just making a claim to try and jump up the price of a book they own in CGC 9.8?

Personally, Valiant has some of the most confusing crediting for 1st appearances, like War Mother in Book of Death #1 (for the record, I have scoured through every panel in that issue and cannot figure out who in there is supposedly War Mother). Sometimes people credit the first appearance when there's a cameo and other times not. Doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency. But this Chainsaw one is really confusing me, since their appearance in issue #2 isn't like some shadowy image...They are right there in full depiction and mentioned by unit name just pages earlier in the issue.

I guess I am the “some people” you are referring to since there are only two copies in CGC 9.8 and I am the only one selling a copy. When I bought the slab, it was described to me as the 1st appearance of Chainsaw and rumored to be a villain in the upcoming BloodShot movie. I never heard anything about issue 2. I also have no idea if Chainsaw will be in the movie, but I am selling my slab to help raise money for college tuition for my son. I took a gamble and paid a good chunk of money for this slab, so here is the chance for someone else to make that gamble.

No worries, wasn't really targeting anyone, nor do I hold any ill-will to someone making a profit off a sale or making a good marketing campaign. I just want clarity on what the actual first appearance would be, and then the broader question on why the industry sometimes flags cameo's as first appearances and other times they don't.

For example, for most of the 90's, Shadowman #1 was considered the first appearance of Shadowman/Boniface. It wasn't until later that X-O #4 was credited with Boniface's first appearance.

War Mother was previously marked as War Mother 4001 AD #1 as her first appearance, but now some credit is given to Book of Death #1 (again, I still don't know who in one of those panels is supposedly War Mother, so I feel this one is a stretch).

It's not just Valiant, even Marvel and DC are inconsistent. For example in Amazing Spider #299 you get a full on panel of Venom, but he's credited as #300. The same approach earlier in ASM with the Hobgoblin had his 1st appearance credited as ASM#238, just as much panel time as Venom in #299.

I personally would think Bloodshot #2 V2 is the first appearance of Chainsaw, but I agree that #3 is probably the issue that will get more notice due to better cover and full on engagement with Chainsaw. I can't find the post anymore, but there was a post on these boards where Dinesh commented in a tweet or something about a Bloodshot #3 V2 9.8 as being a book to get before the movie for the Chainsaw appearance, and seems since then that several eBay listings are now claiming that as well. Prior to that, I never saw or heard anyone make that claim before.

[Ramses818]

There is a long history of this happening in comics. A first cameo is fun (when you don't know it!) like Boniface in XO 4 or Darksied in Jimmy Ohlson. X Factor 23 is another example I use all the time. Archangel is named and shown in several panels, but 24 is always noted as first full appearance.

In the case of Bloodshot it got even more confusing because Rai 0 was supposed to come out before Eternal Warrior 4, but it shipped late! . Warmother might be a exception because we were told it was her in Book of Death by the people who made the comic..lol. Different artists make different looks but the character is her. I remember the first time I saw Gilad in XO 1 (VEI) and a Gin-gr robot in Rai 1 (also VEI). It's just fun Easter eggs for fans to look back on and see a connection, not for comic book dealers to sell for inflated prices. The market will always dictate what is the most valuable.

I agree with you on Amazing Spider man 299 btw

[markie7235]

There is a long history of this happening in comics. A first cameo is fun (when you don't know it!) like Boniface in XO 4 or Darksied in Jimmy Ohlson. X Factor 23 is another example I use all the time. Archangel is named and shown in several panels, but 24 is always noted as first full appearance.

In the case of Bloodshot it got even more confusing because Rai 0 was supposed to come out before Eternal Warrior 4, but it shipped late! . Warmother might be a exception because we were told it was her in Book of Death by the people who made the comic..lol. Different artists make different looks but the character is her. I remember the first time I saw Gilad in XO 1 (VEI) and a Gin-gr robot in Rai 1 (also VEI). It's just fun Easter eggs for fans to look back on and see a connection, not for comic book dealers to sell for inflated prices. The market will always dictate what is the most valuable.

I agree with you on Amazing Spider man 299 btw

Interesting, I knew Rai #0 came out a week later, didn't realize it was suppose to come out first. I actually like the way it played out better with EW#4 coming first, then Rai#0 to give more insight, followed by EW#5 to see the rest of the story.

[greg]

I agree with you on Amazing Spider man 299 btw

Same thing for Carnage in ASM #360.

[mkb28]

294 Views, 10 Watchers, and ZERO bids!

[DirtbagSailor]

It is a good book; however, the timing is wrong.

People are slow on this, and I suspect that it will be one of those books that people do not pay attention to until everyone pays attention to it and it is too late for them due to limited supply.

Take for example Harbinger #3 (Zircher 1:20) featuring the 1st modern Livewire. Almost everyone I know wants one; yet a 9.8 sat for quite some time with almost no action in spite of this. Eventually that copy sold; however, again, the timing was off and it went for less than it otherwise might have.

[mkb28]

It is a good book; however, the timing is wrong.

People are slow on this, and I suspect that it will be one of those books that people do not pay attention to until everyone pays attention to it and it is too late for them due to limited supply.

Take for example Harbinger #3 (Zircher 1:20) featuring the 1st modern Livewire. Almost everyone I know wants one; yet a 9.8 sat for quite some time with almost no action in spite of this. Eventually that copy sold; however, again, the timing was off and it went for less than it otherwise might have.

I am just frustrated with the timing of this question by Markie, which was one day before my auction ended. Did that impact the potential sale? Maybe the price was too high or it is just too early, like you stated above. I guess we will never know. In the meantime, I have removed the word “1st” from my listings until the mystery is solved.

[DirtbagSailor]

As far issue #3 vs issue #2 being the “1st appearance” of Chainsaw, as is always the case and typically debated with extreme passion (ASM #300 vs #298/299; HULK #181 vs #180; Spawn #1 vs Malibu’s Sun, etc.).

Obviously Chainsaw made a cameo appearance at the end of #2 (no debate there). However, issue #3 not only has them prominently displayed on the cover and with their full appearance. I have argued the EW #4 va Rai #0 for Bloodshot at length, and take the opposite view with that debate (meaning that EW #4 is the 1st appearance of Bloodshot).

I see Bloodshot Vol. #2 issue #3 along the lines of ASM #300 or HULK #181. True, they were NOT he “1st appearances;” however, the market does not care and has made its firm decision.

[kjjohanson]

Bloodshot #2: First appearance in cameo
Bloodshot #3: First full appearance

X-O 4: First appearance of Jack Boniface (not Shadowman) in cameo
Shadowman #1: First full appearance of Jack Boniface. First appearance of Shadowman (important distinction I think because there have been multiple people to go by the identity of Shadowman, and Boniface doesn't have any of Shadowman's abilities in the X-O book.

War Mother is purported to be one of the characters on the full-page spread that features a bunch of characters. Preliminary art for this spread suggests a bunch of characters were added after the fact. Book of Death was fully returnable, so I believe that the main reason for the addition of characters was that Valiant wanted to cut down on the number of copies that would be returned, so added in a bunch of characters, some of which there were already plans for (War Mother), some which looked like preliminary art for already existing characters (Shadowman), and others that I imagine were tossed in that we may or may not ever see again. Since this was less organic than a character appearing as part of a story, I think that's why collectors haven't latched onto it.

[kjjohanson]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/07/15 ... -spoilers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmatt]

Since this was less organic than a character appearing as part of a story, I think that's why collectors haven't latched onto it.

Yeah, I never bought into that.

[TheeBaldMoose]

It is a good book; however, the timing is wrong.

People are slow on this, and I suspect that it will be one of those books that people do not pay attention to until everyone pays attention to it and it is too late for them due to limited supply.

Take for example Harbinger #3 (Zircher 1:20) featuring the 1st modern Livewire. Almost everyone I know wants one; yet a 9.8 sat for quite some time with almost no action in spite of this. Eventually that copy sold; however, again, the timing was off and it went for less than it otherwise might have.

I am just frustrated with the timing of this question by Markie, which was one day before my auction ended. Did that impact the potential sale? Maybe the price was too high or it is just too early, like you stated above. I guess we will never know. In the meantime, I have removed the word “1st” from my listings until the mystery is solved.

I think, as a whole, Valiant has just not been selling very much. Been some real good steals, simply because the market seems to be falling a bit. Could be timing, but books that would normally sell for a certain amount has slipped in past weeks.

[markie7235]

As far issue #3 vs issue #2 being the “1st appearance” of Chainsaw, as is always the case and typically debated with extreme passion (ASM #300 vs #298/299; HULK #181 vs #180; Spawn #1 vs Malibu’s Sun, etc.).

Obviously Chainsaw made a cameo appearance at the end of #2 (no debate there). However, issue #3 not only has them prominently displayed on the cover and with their full appearance. I have argued the EW #4 va Rai #0 for Bloodshot at length, and take the opposite view with that debate (meaning that EW #4 is the 1st appearance of Bloodshot).

I see Bloodshot Vol. #2 issue #3 along the lines of ASM #300 or HULK #181. True, they were NOT he “1st appearances;” however, the market does not care and has made its firm decision.

Except the market didnt decide this one, Dinesh did in a tweet that people have jumped on it. Prior to his tweet, the only mention you could find on chainsaw's 1st app was valiant wiki which lists it as vol 2 issue 2.

I'm not trying to cut into anyone's sales here, really sorry if timing is inconvenient, but the market did not decide this one. Will #2 or #3 be worth more? No idea, in fact until that tweet by Dinesh, issue 3 could be picked up for a couple bucks.

Not trying to throw Dinesh under the bus here, but if #3 really does become the gospel 1st app, it will be because Dinesh declared it and we all agreed with it.

Beyond that, is it being listed for too much? Honestly couldn't say, but I personally feel $500+ for a book in 9.8 no one had much interest in until recently seems high. I mean, bloodshot first app is only $200-$250. Now I'm sure bloodshot #3 is a lower print run, and hard to get in 9.8, but I'm just not convinced yet that chainsaws 1st app, regardless of issue, is important enough to command that much money. That could change with the release of the movie, but until then and until it sells for that much, I'm not convinced. I dont think my thread or question caused anyone not to buy it, anymore than Dinesh's tweet clearly didnt convince anyone to buy it. I think it's just too much money for that book right now

[Joshua]

Because I hate these arguments, I bought a bunch of both issues when Dinesh told me via PM. I don't believe anyone knew this back in March.

[mkb28]

As far issue #3 vs issue #2 being the “1st appearance” of Chainsaw, as is always the case and typically debated with extreme passion (ASM #300 vs #298/299; HULK #181 vs #180; Spawn #1 vs Malibu’s Sun, etc.).

Obviously Chainsaw made a cameo appearance at the end of #2 (no debate there). However, issue #3 not only has them prominently displayed on the cover and with their full appearance. I have argued the EW #4 va Rai #0 for Bloodshot at length, and take the opposite view with that debate (meaning that EW #4 is the 1st appearance of Bloodshot).

I see Bloodshot Vol. #2 issue #3 along the lines of ASM #300 or HULK #181. True, they were NOT he “1st appearances;” however, the market does not care and has made its firm decision.

Except the market didnt decide this one, Dinesh did in a tweet that people have jumped on it. Prior to his tweet, the only mention you could find on chainsaw's 1st app was valiant wiki which lists it as vol 2 issue 2.

I'm not trying to cut into anyone's sales here, really sorry if timing is inconvenient, but the market did not decide this one. Will #2 or #3 be worth more? No idea, in fact until that tweet by Dinesh, issue 3 could be picked up for a couple bucks.

Not trying to throw Dinesh under the bus here, but if #3 really does become the gospel 1st app, it will be because Dinesh declared it and we all agreed with it.

Beyond that, is it being listed for too much? Honestly couldn't say, but I personally feel $500+ for a book in 9.8 no one had much interest in until recently seems high. I mean, bloodshot first app is only $200-$250. Now I'm sure bloodshot #3 is a lower print run, and hard to get in 9.8, but I'm just not convinced yet that chainsaws 1st app, regardless of issue, is important enough to command that much money. That could change with the release of the movie, but until then and until it sells for that much, I'm not convinced. I dont think my thread or question caused anyone not to buy it, anymore than Dinesh's tweet clearly didnt convince anyone to buy it. I think it's just too much money for that book right now

I would not have raised this question while another board member had an auction going with one day left. I would have sent a PM and told the person I was going to raise the question and when was the best time to do it. I also took offense to your statement that I was making a false claim to hike up the price of my book. I have no idea how to price this book because there are no 9.8 sales to find. I paid a significant amount for this book and just want to make a decent profit. Whether you impacted the sale is irrelevant. I just think your timing was improper and your claim about me was insulting.

[markie7235]

As far issue #3 vs issue #2 being the “1st appearance” of Chainsaw, as is always the case and typically debated with extreme passion (ASM #300 vs #298/299; HULK #181 vs #180; Spawn #1 vs Malibu’s Sun, etc.).

Obviously Chainsaw made a cameo appearance at the end of #2 (no debate there). However, issue #3 not only has them prominently displayed on the cover and with their full appearance. I have argued the EW #4 va Rai #0 for Bloodshot at length, and take the opposite view with that debate (meaning that EW #4 is the 1st appearance of Bloodshot).

I see Bloodshot Vol. #2 issue #3 along the lines of ASM #300 or HULK #181. True, they were NOT he “1st appearances;” however, the market does not care and has made its firm decision.

Except the market didnt decide this one, Dinesh did in a tweet that people have jumped on it. Prior to his tweet, the only mention you could find on chainsaw's 1st app was valiant wiki which lists it as vol 2 issue 2.

I'm not trying to cut into anyone's sales here, really sorry if timing is inconvenient, but the market did not decide this one. Will #2 or #3 be worth more? No idea, in fact until that tweet by Dinesh, issue 3 could be picked up for a couple bucks.

Not trying to throw Dinesh under the bus here, but if #3 really does become the gospel 1st app, it will be because Dinesh declared it and we all agreed with it.

Beyond that, is it being listed for too much? Honestly couldn't say, but I personally feel $500+ for a book in 9.8 no one had much interest in until recently seems high. I mean, bloodshot first app is only $200-$250. Now I'm sure bloodshot #3 is a lower print run, and hard to get in 9.8, but I'm just not convinced yet that chainsaws 1st app, regardless of issue, is important enough to command that much money. That could change with the release of the movie, but until then and until it sells for that much, I'm not convinced. I dont think my thread or question caused anyone not to buy it, anymore than Dinesh's tweet clearly didnt convince anyone to buy it. I think it's just too much money for that book right now

I would not have raised this question while another board member had an auction going with one day left. I would have sent a PM and told the person I was going to raise the question and when was the best time to do it. I also took offense to your statement that I was making a false claim to hike up the price of my book. I have no idea how to price this book because there are no 9.8 sales to find. I paid a significant amount for this book and just want to make a decent profit. Whether you impacted the sale is irrelevant. I just think your timing was improper and your claim about me was insulting.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I had no idea you were even selling a copy of the book at the time I made this post on eBay or any where else. My entire question had nothing to do with you, but was more in regards to the tweet by Dinesh and the response people had to it. I don't look in the trade/sell/buy section often, so if you had mentioned it there, then I apologize, but you're reading way too much into this. I don't know everyone who posts on this site, where they post, or what they post, and I wouldn't start a thread asking this question to simply target another board member and their auctions. I never claimed you or anyone else made a false claim about issue #3. I simply was looking to know the view by other members of which issue is the 1st app since prior to Dinesh's tweet, I never saw anyone make the claim it was issue #3 over issue #2 before. In fact, I can't say I've seen all that much discussion by anyone about Chainsaw, their 1st app, etc until now that they are rumored to be in the Bloodshot movie.

For that matter, I've seen plenty of times where other's have raised concerns with auctions going on for Valiant books on the threads warning of potential tampering with CGC cases, high pricing, possible scams, condition of items for auction concerns, etc. Is everyone expected to vet all sellers on eBay to see if they are on the board and then avoid impacting their auctions? I think that's a wholly unfair expectation to make of board members. This site is to discuss anything and everything valiant, and I'm not trying to be rude, but when posting a legitimate question, I don't feel it's my responsibility to protect someone else's auction price for top dollar. If interest in the book is there and a collector feels there's value still to be made off the price listed, they will buy it. The item should speak for itself, it shouldn't need to be defended by myself or others. I only mentioned pricing because you asked in a prior comment if it was the wrong time or the price was too high. My last statement was merely responding with my opinion that I think it's a combination of both. Wrong time because I don't think the market is determined on this book yet and probably won't until closer to the movie, and given that I think you may be asking a lot right now in said untested market. I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on the market, just giving my 2 cents to your question based on going rate of other books in VEI in lower print and older VH1 key issues and what they sell for. For example, not sure what you're asking, but if you're listing at $500 for example, and a Divinity #1 1:40 is going around $500 with a print run of <350, then I feel that $500 might be a bit high. Then again, I don't know (because I didn't check) how many copies of Bloodshot Vol 2 #3 exist, and of those how many could be expected to be in a 9.8 condition (partially because there's probably not a lot of submissions for this particular book.....yer). That's the other thing that makes me nervous about this book, that until recently, I don't think there was a ton of interest in having this book graded. So we could see a bunch more 9.8's showing up in the future, and if that's the case, that could drastically shift the supposed value on this book. For now, I guess given limited quantity available in 9.8 or for sale, it's worth whatever someone lists it at and whatever someone is willing to pay.

As to my motivation for asking the question, it's because I own issue #3 but not issue #2, just because I haven't found one yet in good enough condition to buy issue 2 yet. So before possibly off spending on issue #2 in NM/MT condition, I wanted to get a read from others on this board as to which issue really is considered the introduction of Chainsaw. If the consensus is issue #3, then I wasn't going to waste time and money seeking out a MT condition #2. But if the view is that it is issue #3, then I'm good, and honestly if the consensus agreed with it being #3, then it only helps your auction and other people's future auctions.

[markie7235]

Because I hate these arguments, I bought a bunch of both issues when Dinesh told me via PM. I don't believe anyone knew this back in March.

Exactly! No one knew or even cared until Dinesh said something. Both issues were considered wholly forgettable and unimportant really until then. Now there's two different narratives: Prior, wiki's commonly listed it as issue #2, and post Dinesh it's now assumed issue #3. Which one is right? No one knows, and I guess that's a testament to the power of Dinesh because the market has suddenly shifted (at least as far as numerous postings on eBay) claiming it's issue #3 as a result. What will be interesting to see is if all of a sudden people start listing issue #2 as the first appearance in the future (kind of like EW #4 for Bloodshot, or X-O #4 for Jack Boniface). There's at least one listing where someone has both and just says first appearances of Chainsaw.

[mkb28]

As far issue #3 vs issue #2 being the “1st appearance” of Chainsaw, as is always the case and typically debated with extreme passion (ASM #300 vs #298/299; HULK #181 vs #180; Spawn #1 vs Malibu’s Sun, etc.).

Obviously Chainsaw made a cameo appearance at the end of #2 (no debate there). However, issue #3 not only has them prominently displayed on the cover and with their full appearance. I have argued the EW #4 va Rai #0 for Bloodshot at length, and take the opposite view with that debate (meaning that EW #4 is the 1st appearance of Bloodshot).

I see Bloodshot Vol. #2 issue #3 along the lines of ASM #300 or HULK #181. True, they were NOT he “1st appearances;” however, the market does not care and has made its firm decision.

Except the market didnt decide this one, Dinesh did in a tweet that people have jumped on it. Prior to his tweet, the only mention you could find on chainsaw's 1st app was valiant wiki which lists it as vol 2 issue 2.

I'm not trying to cut into anyone's sales here, really sorry if timing is inconvenient, but the market did not decide this one. Will #2 or #3 be worth more? No idea, in fact until that tweet by Dinesh, issue 3 could be picked up for a couple bucks.

Not trying to throw Dinesh under the bus here, but if #3 really does become the gospel 1st app, it will be because Dinesh declared it and we all agreed with it.

Beyond that, is it being listed for too much? Honestly couldn't say, but I personally feel $500+ for a book in 9.8 no one had much interest in until recently seems high. I mean, bloodshot first app is only $200-$250. Now I'm sure bloodshot #3 is a lower print run, and hard to get in 9.8, but I'm just not convinced yet that chainsaws 1st app, regardless of issue, is important enough to command that much money. That could change with the release of the movie, but until then and until it sells for that much, I'm not convinced. I dont think my thread or question caused anyone not to buy it, anymore than Dinesh's tweet clearly didnt convince anyone to buy it. I think it's just too much money for that book right now

I would not have raised this question while another board member had an auction going with one day left. I would have sent a PM and told the person I was going to raise the question and when was the best time to do it. I also took offense to your statement that I was making a false claim to hike up the price of my book. I have no idea how to price this book because there are no 9.8 sales to find. I paid a significant amount for this book and just want to make a decent profit. Whether you impacted the sale is irrelevant. I just think your timing was improper and your claim about me was insulting.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I had no idea you were even selling a copy of the book at the time I made this post on eBay or any where else. My entire question had nothing to do with you, but was more in regards to the tweet by Dinesh and the response people had to it. I don't look in the trade/sell/buy section often, so if you had mentioned it there, then I apologize, but you're reading way too much into this. I don't know everyone who posts on this site, where they post, or what they post, and I wouldn't start a thread asking this question to simply target another board member and their auctions. I never claimed you or anyone else made a false claim about issue #3. I simply was looking to know the view by other members of which issue is the 1st app since prior to Dinesh's tweet, I never saw anyone make the claim it was issue #3 over issue #2 before. In fact, I can't say I've seen all that much discussion by anyone about Chainsaw, their 1st app, etc until now that they are rumored to be in the Bloodshot movie.

For that matter, I've seen plenty of times where other's have raised concerns with auctions going on for Valiant books on the threads warning of potential tampering with CGC cases, high pricing, possible scams, condition of items for auction concerns, etc. Is everyone expected to vet all sellers on eBay to see if they are on the board and then avoid impacting their auctions? I think that's a wholly unfair expectation to make of board members. This site is to discuss anything and everything valiant, and I'm not trying to be rude, but when posting a legitimate question, I don't feel it's my responsibility to protect someone else's auction price for top dollar. If interest in the book is there and a collector feels there's value still to be made off the price listed, they will buy it. The item should speak for itself, it shouldn't need to be defended by myself or others. I only mentioned pricing because you asked in a prior comment if it was the wrong time or the price was too high. My last statement was merely responding with my opinion that I think it's a combination of both. Wrong time because I don't think the market is determined on this book yet and probably won't until closer to the movie, and given that I think you may be asking a lot right now in said untested market. I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on the market, just giving my 2 cents to your question based on going rate of other books in VEI in lower print and older VH1 key issues and what they sell for. For example, not sure what you're asking, but if you're listing at $500 for example, and a Divinity #1 1:40 is going around $500 with a print run of <350, then I feel that $500 might be a bit high. Then again, I don't know (because I didn't check) how many copies of Bloodshot Vol 2 #3 exist, and of those how many could be expected to be in a 9.8 condition (partially because there's probably not a lot of submissions for this particular book.....yer). That's the other thing that makes me nervous about this book, that until recently, I don't think there was a ton of interest in having this book graded. So we could see a bunch more 9.8's showing up in the future, and if that's the case, that could drastically shift the supposed value on this book. For now, I guess given limited quantity available in 9.8 or for sale, it's worth whatever someone lists it at and whatever someone is willing to pay.

As to my motivation for asking the question, it's because I own issue #3 but not issue #2, just because I haven't found one yet in good enough condition to buy issue 2 yet. So before possibly off spending on issue #2 in NM/MT condition, I wanted to get a read from others on this board as to which issue really is considered the introduction of Chainsaw. If the consensus is issue #3, then I wasn't going to waste time and money seeking out a MT condition #2. But if the view is that it is issue #3, then I'm good, and honestly if the consensus agreed with it being #3, then it only helps your auction and other people's future auctions.

It is all good, Markie, as far as I am concerned. There are only 2 CGC 9.8 copies right now, so if the market goes in that direction, there has to be some value there since there are only 2 slabs out there. If it ends up being issue #2, then I have a beautiful $30 book.

[betterthanezra]

Because I hate these arguments, I bought a bunch of both issues when Dinesh told me via PM. I don't believe anyone knew this back in March.

Exactly! No one knew or even cared until Dinesh said something. Both issues were considered wholly forgettable and unimportant really until then. Now there's two different narratives: Prior, wiki's commonly listed it as issue #2, and post Dinesh it's now assumed issue #3. Which one is right? No one knows, and I guess that's a testament to the power of Dinesh because the market has suddenly shifted (at least as far as numerous postings on eBay) claiming it's issue #3 as a result. What will be interesting to see is if all of a sudden people start listing issue #2 as the first appearance in the future (kind of like EW #4 for Bloodshot, or X-O #4 for Jack Boniface). There's at least one listing where someone has both and just says first appearances of Chainsaw.

I wish there was a retailer review for one of those issues then this wouldn't be an issue at all

-Brian

[markie7235]

It is all good, Markie, as far as I am concerned. There are only 2 CGC 9.8 copies right now, so if the market goes in that direction, there has to be some value there since there are only 2 slabs out there. If it ends up being issue #2, then I have a beautiful $30 book.

Seriously man, I hope the market goes your way, especially since I have issue 3 also (not graded). It's certainly a more appealing cover, and given Dinesh has staked it as the first appearance, something tells me that's what Valiant fans will go with.

As for value, again no idea. I'm sure there's other 9.8s out there not submitted yet. That said, the Acclaim books had print runs closer to what we see from VEI today, the paper quality used was not great, and a lot of people passed up the Acclaim stuff as garbage. So while theres going to be more 9.8s showing up, I think it's safe to say the quantity wont be staggering, so from that view the book will have value if Chainsaw is considered important enough and the market agrees on 1st app, then you may be right on for the price...I just think people won't necessarily realize it until closer to the movie or after it's out.

I think you have a gem, I just dont know if theres enough people yet willing to go for it. Best of luck, hope it gets picked up, seriously

[betterthanezra]

It is all good, Markie, as far as I am concerned. There are only 2 CGC 9.8 copies right now, so if the market goes in that direction, there has to be some value there since there are only 2 slabs out there. If it ends up being issue #2, then I have a beautiful $30 book.

I'm sure there's other 9.8s out there not submitted yet. That said, the Acclaim books had print runs closer to what we see from VEI today, the paper quality used was not great, and a lot of people passed up the Acclaim stuff as garbage. So while theres going to be more 9.8s showing up, I think it's safe to say the quantity wont be staggering, so from that view the book will have value if Chainsaw is considered important enough and the market agrees on 1st app, then you may be right on for the price...I just think people won't necessarily realize it until closer to the movie or after it's out.

I think you have a gem, I just dont know if theres enough people yet willing to go for it. Best of luck, hope it gets picked up, seriously

Not all of us consider the Acclaim stuff garbage (most do) i do think I have at leat 3-4 9.8 quality copies of this book in storage I just have to find them

whatever the case demand will always out weigh supply on this book if it becomes something in the market

-Brian