Harbinger 1 9.8 is a beast

[nycjadie]

There are currently no copies available on eBay at the moment. That hasn’t been true for a number of years. A regular 9.8 recently sold for $1300. With a Harbinger and Faith movie in the works, there seems to be more movement possible, possibly a lot. I see $1500 easy in the near future, but could this be a $2K book?

It wasn’t that long ago when it bottomed around $375, when I picked up a 2nd copy.

[sonicdan]

Reminds me of when CGC used Harbinger #1 in an ad back in 2008

[StarBrand]

The sky is the limit on this book.

[David_Cody]

I don't have a single comic CGC'd, but if I were to get one done it would be this issue. That is big dollars.

[Ryan]

I will never do that because this issue is still a great read. The newer reprints looked fuzzy and I'm not a fan of the new coloring. Having a copy is still the only way to read this as originally printed. I guess the original tpb counts too.

[greg]

Harbinger #1 is probably moving because of Faith's first appearance. It was already a massive Valiant key without any movie talk... then the Harbinger movie talk started... now the Faith movie talk is starting.

Slabbing high grade copies with the #0 coupon intact makes sense... the cover paper is kinda brittle, the coupon is often cut, and the print run was probably under 50,000 at a time Marvel was selling 500,000.

Reading low grade copies with the coupon cut is fun, too.

[markie7235]

I think it's certainly possible to see this book go up due to no copies currently available, but no guarantee. Could be people snatched them up on speculation, or could be people are now holding back copies pending movies in hopes to make a bigger profit off of it.

That said, I just picked up a 9.8 copy from Jaden off of the trade board on this site for $1,000 that he had listed for at least a week. Given how there's no copies on eBay, and speculation this book is going to go higher, I guess I'm a little surprised no one else grabbed this book (I mean aside from it's a lot of money and I'm sure many of the bigger collectors on this site may already have a copy).

Predicting some of these is really tough until the movies materialize, and it also assumes it brings in new fans and readers. That said, I don't expect to see a glut of Harbinger #1 9.8's or Solar #10 9.8's suddenly hitting the market even after the movies. These two especially are only going to become increasingly harder to find given print runs, cut coupons, and paper quality making 9.8's already not easy to obtain on new submissions. Out of all the original Valiant books, these are the two I would most expect to continue to rise in value as we get further and further away from their original release.

While definitely a rise in value, and despite higher print runs on the book, I am a little surprised Eternal Warrior #4 hasn't risen more in the last 6 months. From personal experience, many of these original run Valiant books from the 90's are so touchy on grading given the paper quality caused a lot of the earlier issues to fray/split slightly at spine, have spine wear, or other dents and issues with the covers. I've owned several Eternal Warrior #4 copies over the years, but only one that is a 9.8. I have probably 3-4 raw copies now that I've chosen not to submit because I doubt they'd get a 9.8, and most likely would be 9.4-9.6 (maybe 1-2 would be 9.8 if I had them pressed first). I expect this one to continue upwards as the movie gets closer and then afterwards.

[TheeBaldMoose]

To press or not to press....

I've heard these books are pretty fragile, and I've got myself a 9.6 (slabbed a while back, before pressing was popular), I still have to take a real good look at it, but if it looks solid, should it get pressed on a re-submit?

[markie7235]

To press or not to press....

I've heard these books are pretty fragile, and I've got myself a 9.6 (slabbed a while back, before pressing was popular), I still have to take a real good look at it, but if it looks solid, should it get pressed on a re-submit?

Really hard to answer. Are there any grader notes indicating issues with the book? A lot of these in the 9.4-9.8 range don't typically get notes, or they aren't meaningful.

If you read the CGC faqs on pressing, it outlines what could candidates would be. The key thing as I recall is if there's any creases or spine dings that break color, pressing won't do much. If there are light creases that don't break color or small indents (again, no broken color), this is where pressing can improve the grade. There's just no guarantees I'm afraid.

Other issues such as rust on staples, blunted corners, etc also don't benefit from a press.

Where pressing could ruin the book is if there's spine damage like splits starting to form at the corners. I've heard and seen that this is where some of the real risk comes in. Without seeing the book myself, I can't really tell you much else aside from the above, which is also all outlined on the CGC FAQ on pressing.

You might almost be better off selling your 9.6 and just buying a 9.8 at the current price. You can still get a 9.8 for around $200 at this point. Keep in mind a press and re-grade is probably going to run you another $40-$50ish on the chance of an improved grade. So if you can get $50 for the 9.6, my opinion is you might be better off just buying the 9.8 if you really want a 9.8.

I've weighed this over on a couple of my books also that came in 9.6, and when I already consider what I spent to get it graded the first time, the press, re-grade, and odds of it increasing by 0.2, for some of these books I'll end up spending just as much or slightly more just to buy the already 9.8 graded book. Some of the ones I have like this are Archer & Armstrong #0 9.6, Solar #3 9.6, X-O Manowar #4 9.6, etc. A&A #0 I can probably get a 9.8 for $100-$150, Solar #3 probably for $200, the X-O one would be a bit more. So the first 2 would be just throwing good money at bad consider the cost of re-grade versus what the 9.6's could be sold for. The X-O is at the point where the cost of a 9.8 might justify the attempt at Press and Re-grade. I usually look at any book going for $250 or less at 9.8 not worth the extra spend to re-submit a 9.6 versus buying the 9.8. If I get lucky and it increases, great, but if not, I just blew another $40-$50 and will still end up buying the 9.8 now and losing money on the 9.6

Just some food for thought

[markie7235]

To press or not to press....

I've heard these books are pretty fragile, and I've got myself a 9.6 (slabbed a while back, before pressing was popular), I still have to take a real good look at it, but if it looks solid, should it get pressed on a re-submit?

Lol, wait, for some reason I was thinking EW #4. Are you talking about Harbinger #1 9.6? If so, scratch my prior statement on buying a 9.8.

Still see my comments on the pressing though. Harbinger #1 had a common flaw with covers starting to split at the spine. It was one of the most common issues with this particular book, which is part of the reason 9.8's have been hard to grade. I have an 8.5 and 9.2 both with coupons intact I have been debating on also pressing, and for now have been holding off. In the case of a 9.6, I'm honestly not sure I would, but for that book, I would probably talk to your local dealer if he has experience with submitting to CGC and get his opinion on the worth vs risk. There have been several people I've known and who've posted on the VF forums where they submitted Harby #1's for pressing and had books wrecked. It's a fairly small percent this happens, but it is always a risk.

For my 8.5 and 9.2, the risk vs reward is much more skewed towards reward side. I have no pretense they will be 9.8s after a press, but for that book, every 0.2 it improves does come with some significant cost increase. For a 9.6, it's so close already, that you're now running the following risks: 1) Does it improve the grade? 2) Does the grade actually drop based on re-grade (it does happen) 3) Does the book suffer damage in the process?

Considering your book (in theory) can only move up 0.2 at best, stay the same as ok, or drop/damage at worst, I'm not sure I'd do it myself

[Ricomortis]

I think it's certainly possible to see this book go up due to no copies currently available, but no guarantee. Could be people snatched them up on speculation, or could be people are now holding back copies pending movies in hopes to make a bigger profit off of it.

That said, I just picked up a 9.8 copy from Jaden off of the trade board on this site for $1,000 that he had listed for at least a week. Given how there's no copies on eBay, and speculation this book is going to go higher, I guess I'm a little surprised no one else grabbed this book (I mean aside from it's a lot of money and I'm sure many of the bigger collectors on this site may already have a copy).

Predicting some of these is really tough until the movies materialize, and it also assumes it brings in new fans and readers. That said, I don't expect to see a glut of Harbinger #1 9.8's or Solar #10 9.8's suddenly hitting the market even after the movies. These two especially are only going to become increasingly harder to find given print runs, cut coupons, and paper quality making 9.8's already not easy to obtain on new submissions. Out of all the original Valiant books, these are the two I would most expect to continue to rise in value as we get further and further away from their original release.

While definitely a rise in value, and despite higher print runs on the book, I am a little surprised Eternal Warrior #4 hasn't risen more in the last 6 months. From personal experience, many of these original run Valiant books from the 90's are so touchy on grading given the paper quality caused a lot of the earlier issues to fray/split slightly at spine, have spine wear, or other dents and issues with the covers. I've owned several Eternal Warrior #4 copies over the years, but only one that is a 9.8. I have probably 3-4 raw copies now that I've chosen not to submit because I doubt they'd get a 9.8, and most likely would be 9.4-9.6 (maybe 1-2 would be 9.8 if I had them pressed first). I expect this one to continue upwards as the movie gets closer and then afterwards.

Here's my 2 cents...

As far as getting graded... Not sure what people are waiting for? This book has sold for over $1000 several times since like 2004. Probably not alot of high grade copies out there. (Due to paper quality, cut coupons, print run, staple tears, etc)

As far as current grade copies... Really the census is not very many copies to distribute just among the 3500 people here on Valiantfans, much less the rest of the comic collectors/investors, moviegoers, billions of Chinese people. The price is already at $1000 with just these couple of hundred books and very little exposure.

I truly think the flux of books we got a couple of years back was due to the excepted practice of pressing. I think these copies drove down the price to the $300-$400 range. Now the books have been drying up and the price has been moving upward. Now we have movie news and more pressure to the upside. Here is the problem... Not even 1% of the population has even heard of Valiant much less looked into them. I'm sure it's more like... .0001% but you get the point. If Valiant just becomes semi popular... Lets just say "Image" popular... No way this $1000 price holds.

BEFORE Deadpool was a movie and popular via mass Mercia, there were over 2000 CGC 9.8 copies of his 1st appearance and it still sold for $1000-$1500 consistently.

As for EW 4 well... There were 100's of thousands of those printed....

Rico

[greg]

As for EW 4 well... There were 100's of thousands of those printed....

Not quite. There are lots of copies available, but EW #4 was about 100,000, not hundreds-of-thousands. It's a 1992 book, so the big 1993 numbers hadn't started yet.

[markie7235]

I think it's certainly possible to see this book go up due to no copies currently available, but no guarantee. Could be people snatched them up on speculation, or could be people are now holding back copies pending movies in hopes to make a bigger profit off of it.

That said, I just picked up a 9.8 copy from Jaden off of the trade board on this site for $1,000 that he had listed for at least a week. Given how there's no copies on eBay, and speculation this book is going to go higher, I guess I'm a little surprised no one else grabbed this book (I mean aside from it's a lot of money and I'm sure many of the bigger collectors on this site may already have a copy).

Predicting some of these is really tough until the movies materialize, and it also assumes it brings in new fans and readers. That said, I don't expect to see a glut of Harbinger #1 9.8's or Solar #10 9.8's suddenly hitting the market even after the movies. These two especially are only going to become increasingly harder to find given print runs, cut coupons, and paper quality making 9.8's already not easy to obtain on new submissions. Out of all the original Valiant books, these are the two I would most expect to continue to rise in value as we get further and further away from their original release.

While definitely a rise in value, and despite higher print runs on the book, I am a little surprised Eternal Warrior #4 hasn't risen more in the last 6 months. From personal experience, many of these original run Valiant books from the 90's are so touchy on grading given the paper quality caused a lot of the earlier issues to fray/split slightly at spine, have spine wear, or other dents and issues with the covers. I've owned several Eternal Warrior #4 copies over the years, but only one that is a 9.8. I have probably 3-4 raw copies now that I've chosen not to submit because I doubt they'd get a 9.8, and most likely would be 9.4-9.6 (maybe 1-2 would be 9.8 if I had them pressed first). I expect this one to continue upwards as the movie gets closer and then afterwards.

Here's my 2 cents...

As far as getting graded... Not sure what people are waiting for? This book has sold for over $1000 several times since like 2004. Probably not alot of high grade copies out there. (Due to paper quality, cut coupons, print run, staple tears, etc)

As far as current grade copies... Really the census is not very many copies to distribute just among the 3500 people here on Valiantfans, much less the rest of the comic collectors/investors, moviegoers, billions of Chinese people. The price is already at $1000 with just these couple of hundred books and very little exposure.

I truly think the flux of books we got a couple of years back was due to the excepted practice of pressing. I think these copies drove down the price to the $300-$400 range. Now the books have been drying up and the price has been moving upward. Now we have movie news and more pressure to the upside. Here is the problem... Not even 1% of the population has even heard of Valiant much less looked into them. I'm sure it's more like... .0001% but you get the point. If Valiant just becomes semi popular... Lets just say "Image" popular... No way this $1000 price holds.

BEFORE Deadpool was a movie and popular via mass Mercia, there were over 2000 CGC 9.8 copies of his 1st appearance and it still sold for $1000-$1500 consistently.

As for EW 4 well... There were 100's of thousands of those printed....

Rico

Rico, I thought EW #4 was exactly 100,000 copies (maybe 150,000). I'd have to double check how many have been submitted for grading and got a 9.8 again, don't remember, but I know it's a higher number than Harby #1 obviously. That said, there were still paper quality issues with these books (though not as bad as Harbinger #1 or many other pre-unity books).

Now New Mutants #98 (Deadpool 1st appearance) I don't recall how many copies were printed. I know the later issues of New Mutants were fairly lower print than other Marvel books at the time, especially the last 15 issues or so. Now, were there more copies than EW#4, honestly I have no idea, but I would guess so. The paper quality was certainly better on this book, meaning it would help score higher grades.

All that said, Deadpool is a popular character, especially after they re-invented him (what we know him as today is very different from how he was first portrayed in his early appearances), and the movie definitely helped. He's also a Marvel character, so that makes this book hot also. Will Valiant or Bloodshot reach these levels of popularity? Who knows, but I doubt it, so obviously there's more demand for NM#98 than EW#4, but I still could see the price of EW#4 increasing further. But to your point, locating a 9.8 grade EW#4 is not hard to do, there's always some listed on eBay, so this one will be more of increased demand would increase price. Harbinger #1 9.8 is both about demand and scarcity, so yeah, definitely has a much higher ceiling than EW#4.

What will be more interesting to me is if Eternal Warrior gets a movie as previously rumored where Dave Bautista was linked to the role. Now that was a year ago when Dinesh was still with Valiant, so anything could change. Still, if it does happen, I think Solar #10 in 9.8 has a much higher ceiling than Harbinger #1. It's already starting to sell higher, it's much more scarce in 9.8, I don't really think that will change with pressing and future submissions, and unlike Harbinger #1 previously, there's never really been many of these listed on eBay. Late 2017 was the most I ever saw of this book in 9.8 listed so close together. For years a 9.8 would show up on occassion, but infrequently at best. For me, Solar #10 9.8 still remains the one to own if you had to pick one or the other, especially while both can be had for around the same price at the moment. I don't see that staying true for long if the EW movie does materialize

[DirtbagSailor]

100,000 copies of Eternal Warrior #4

150,000 copies of Rai #0 (with an unknown/small percentage being "glossy" cover)

[greg]

100,000 copies of Eternal Warrior #4

150,000 copies of Rai #0 (with an unknown/small percentage being "glossy" cover)

Seems like a pretty good example of what the "#0" power was at the time... +50% for orders of #0 vs. some other (non-#1) issue.

[Ricomortis]

I think it's certainly possible to see this book go up due to no copies currently available, but no guarantee. Could be people snatched them up on speculation, or could be people are now holding back copies pending movies in hopes to make a bigger profit off of it.

That said, I just picked up a 9.8 copy from Jaden off of the trade board on this site for $1,000 that he had listed for at least a week. Given how there's no copies on eBay, and speculation this book is going to go higher, I guess I'm a little surprised no one else grabbed this book (I mean aside from it's a lot of money and I'm sure many of the bigger collectors on this site may already have a copy).

Predicting some of these is really tough until the movies materialize, and it also assumes it brings in new fans and readers. That said, I don't expect to see a glut of Harbinger #1 9.8's or Solar #10 9.8's suddenly hitting the market even after the movies. These two especially are only going to become increasingly harder to find given print runs, cut coupons, and paper quality making 9.8's already not easy to obtain on new submissions. Out of all the original Valiant books, these are the two I would most expect to continue to rise in value as we get further and further away from their original release.

While definitely a rise in value, and despite higher print runs on the book, I am a little surprised Eternal Warrior #4 hasn't risen more in the last 6 months. From personal experience, many of these original run Valiant books from the 90's are so touchy on grading given the paper quality caused a lot of the earlier issues to fray/split slightly at spine, have spine wear, or other dents and issues with the covers. I've owned several Eternal Warrior #4 copies over the years, but only one that is a 9.8. I have probably 3-4 raw copies now that I've chosen not to submit because I doubt they'd get a 9.8, and most likely would be 9.4-9.6 (maybe 1-2 would be 9.8 if I had them pressed first). I expect this one to continue upwards as the movie gets closer and then afterwards.

Here's my 2 cents...

As far as getting graded... Not sure what people are waiting for? This book has sold for over $1000 several times since like 2004. Probably not alot of high grade copies out there. (Due to paper quality, cut coupons, print run, staple tears, etc)

As far as current grade copies... Really the census is not very many copies to distribute just among the 3500 people here on Valiantfans, much less the rest of the comic collectors/investors, moviegoers, billions of Chinese people. The price is already at $1000 with just these couple of hundred books and very little exposure.

I truly think the flux of books we got a couple of years back was due to the excepted practice of pressing. I think these copies drove down the price to the $300-$400 range. Now the books have been drying up and the price has been moving upward. Now we have movie news and more pressure to the upside. Here is the problem... Not even 1% of the population has even heard of Valiant much less looked into them. I'm sure it's more like... .0001% but you get the point. If Valiant just becomes semi popular... Lets just say "Image" popular... No way this $1000 price holds.

BEFORE Deadpool was a movie and popular via mass Mercia, there were over 2000 CGC 9.8 copies of his 1st appearance and it still sold for $1000-$1500 consistently.

As for EW 4 well... There were 100's of thousands of those printed....

Rico

Rico, I thought EW #4 was exactly 100,000 copies (maybe 150,000). I'd have to double check how many have been submitted for grading and got a 9.8 again, don't remember, but I know it's a higher number than Harby #1 obviously. That said, there were still paper quality issues with these books (though not as bad as Harbinger #1 or many other pre-unity books).

Now New Mutants #98 (Deadpool 1st appearance) I don't recall how many copies were printed. I know the later issues of New Mutants were fairly lower print than other Marvel books at the time, especially the last 15 issues or so. Now, were there more copies than EW#4, honestly I have no idea, but I would guess so. The paper quality was certainly better on this book, meaning it would help score higher grades.

All that said, Deadpool is a popular character, especially after they re-invented him (what we know him as today is very different from how he was first portrayed in his early appearances), and the movie definitely helped. He's also a Marvel character, so that makes this book hot also. Will Valiant or Bloodshot reach these levels of popularity? Who knows, but I doubt it, so obviously there's more demand for NM#98 than EW#4, but I still could see the price of EW#4 increasing further. But to your point, locating a 9.8 grade EW#4 is not hard to do, there's always some listed on eBay, so this one will be more of increased demand would increase price. Harbinger #1 9.8 is both about demand and scarcity, so yeah, definitely has a much higher ceiling than EW#4.

What will be more interesting to me is if Eternal Warrior gets a movie as previously rumored where Dave Bautista was linked to the role. Now that was a year ago when Dinesh was still with Valiant, so anything could change. Still, if it does happen, I think Solar #10 in 9.8 has a much higher ceiling than Harbinger #1. It's already starting to sell higher, it's much more scarce in 9.8, I don't really think that will change with pressing and future submissions, and unlike Harbinger #1 previously, there's never really been many of these listed on eBay. Late 2017 was the most I ever saw of this book in 9.8 listed so close together. For years a 9.8 would show up on occassion, but infrequently at best. For me, Solar #10 9.8 still remains the one to own if you had to pick one or the other, especially while both can be had for around the same price at the moment. I don't see that staying true for long if the EW movie does materialize

I think you could be right on the Solar 10... One hard book to get in 9.8

[apacseller]

People looking to press this book beware, I've had a really hard time getting any 9.8s in recent years. Many modern press techniques will split the seam. I also think CGC has been grading harder on this book. Glad I got my copies years ago. In my mind, this is THE Valiant book.

[jmatt]

I'm half tempted to put my Harby 9.8 up on Ebay at a ridiculous price and see what happens.

[Elveen]

I'm half tempted to put my Harby 9.8 up on Ebay at a ridiculous price and see what happens.

Don’t.

[The Dirt Gang]

This is where my insistance years ago in only finding Valiant out in the wild really kicks me in the *SQUEE*.

Granted I was never interested in Valiant as a speculative thing but it's hard not to see these numbers and realize maybe you made a mistake.

I can still remember picking up the Walking Dead #1 on the shelf and thinking that it wasn't for me and putting it back.

[markie7235]

I'm half tempted to put my Harby 9.8 up on Ebay at a ridiculous price and see what happens.

Well on one hand, with none others listed, you possible could set the new expected price to pay for this book....possibly

On the flip side, when the movies materialize, if popular, you could end up selling your copy now for a much lower price than what it could end up being.

Like many have mentioned, this book seems more susceptible to damage from a press, and while there's still some 9.8 copies graded each year, we're not talking large quantities. This book is not going to become any easier to find.

Who knows, if you bought it to flip, maybe now is the time to sell. But I personally think this book is going to increase further.

[DirtbagSailor]

I sold 12 CGC 9.8 copies of this book in the last two years between $500-750.

I am happy that I did so, because those sales made it to take care of a few major unexpected life events at the time (and acquire some specific OA that 120% HAD to be acquired).

However, $12,000+ in sales right now would certainly be nice too lol!

[markie7235]

I sold 12 CGC 9.8 copies of this book in the last two years between $500-750.

I am happy that I did so, because those sales made it to take care of a few major unexpected life events at the time (and acquire some specific OA that 120% HAD to be acquired).

However, $12,000+ in sales right now would certainly be nice too lol!

I know the feeling. I also collect and deal in retro video games, and sold numerous over the last 2 years that have continued to increase in value. Same thing with other collectibles. That's the hardest thing about a collectible, or stocks, or anything purchased as an investment...Knowing when to sell. The way I look at it, if I bought it for X and it sold for more than X, I made a profit, and I can live with that.

That's not to say there are not times I regret the decision. When I was younger and in the 90's, I use to buy and play Magic the Gathering. I owned at least 4 of every card that would be considered "power" or "expensive" today. In the early 2000's, I sold all of my stuff for about $8,000 after spending $5,000 on all of it. I made $3,000 so that was cool, and needed the money while I was in college. Of course today, my collection would have sold easily for over $100,000....That one hurts

[lobo]

but could this be a $2K book?

It damn well better!

I paid peak price of almost $2000 for CGC 9.8SS quite a few years ago now, when the census count was much less 50 for 9.8 copies. I've since mitigated my 'loss' by buying many more 9.8 copies in the $300-$500 range. Playing the long game on this book is still the plan right now.

[jmatt]

Who knows, if you bought it to flip...

It's even better than that. Two years ago, I traded one of my triple sig Divinity #1s with DBS for one of his Harby #1 9.8s. Jesse obviously gave me the better deal, for which I'm very appreciative. So, technically, my copy cost me $3 (raw Divinity) plus the cost to slab ($25) = $28 out of pocket.

While I enjoy having the Harby #1 in my collection, if it were to fetch like $1800 ~ $2000 on Ebay... I might enjoy that more. Yes, yes, I realize that figure is a pipe dream. But with no other copies available on the market, who knows?