How confident are you in the Valiant Cinematic Universe?

[SlyTrooper]

Hi guys. Been a while since I last posted on here.

I was just wondering with all the recent news regarding the Bloodshot movie, how confident are you that this will do well? Furthermore, how confident do you feel that this will span out into a greater movie universe akin to the MCU or DCCU? We all know they initially had plans to create Bloodshot and Harbinger movies, followed by sequels for both and ultimately concluding with a Harbinger Wars crossover. But do you think this is still the intention or has this changed since the DMG takeover?

I know this may knock me back a bit in your guys' eyes as a Valiant fan, but I did discover Valiant through the movie universe announcement (as you can probably tell by the date I became a fan). So this is very important to me, as without these plans I never would have found something that has become such a big part of my life. Obviously though, as I have read a large amount of the comics since this discovery, Valiant is more to me than just another movie universe. Considering this, what effect do you expect the success of the movie to play on the way the comics are managed in the long-run? If this works, will this negatively or positively change the comics? Or in the other chance that it fails terribly, which way will the comics go? I worry that success will dilute the comics into simply a movie concept farm, but at the same time failure could cause DMG to practically get rid of the brand.

As you can tell by the mad amount of questions I just posted (which I apologise for), I am very interested in your thoughts. So please let me know

[Shadowman99]

Hi guys. Been a while since I last posted on here.

I was just wondering with all the recent news regarding the Bloodshot movie, how confident are you that this will do well? Furthermore, how confident do you feel that this will span out into a greater movie universe akin to the MCU or DCCU? We all know they initially had plans to create Bloodshot and Harbinger movies, followed by sequels for both and ultimately concluding with a Harbinger Wars crossover. But do you think this is still the intention or has this changed since the DMG takeover?

I know this may knock me back a bit in your guys' eyes as a Valiant fan, but I did discover Valiant through the movie universe announcement (as you can probably tell by the date I became a fan). So this is very important to me, as without these plans I never would have found something that has become such a big part of my life. Obviously though, as I have read a large amount of the comics since this discovery, Valiant is more to me than just another movie universe. Considering this, what effect do you expect the success of the movie to play on the way the comics are managed in the long-run? If this works, will this negatively or positively change the comics? Or in the other chance that it fails terribly, which way will the comics go? I worry that success will dilute the comics into simply a movie concept farm, but at the same time failure could cause DMG to practically get rid of the brand.

As you can tell by the mad amount of questions I just posted (which I apologise for), I am very interested in your thoughts. So please let me know

Purely guessing here, but I've said since the go that I think it's gonna flop. I think we'll be lucky to see a Harbinger movie, never mind the full five-part shebang. With so many superhero films out there these days I just don't think anyone's going to pay attention to a film without a 'Marvel' or 'DC' tag attached to it. I'm guessing there are probably films out there that have originally been adapted from comic books and have done well, but my general movie knowledge isn't that great so I couldn't name any that have really smashed the box office.

Once Bloodshot flops, I think DMG will but their losses and run, and unless somebody happens to buy the IP from them, that'll be the end of VEI.

On the other hand, if the company does keep running past the Bloodshot (financial) return I'd fully expect the comics to eventually function as am 'IP Farm' platform. Press announcements have told us that the senior management intend to 'do a great job' of handling the comic line and all, but I don't really buy it. DMG own Valiant because they want to profit from screen-based media based on the VEI IPs and that's what they'll be most interested in doing, ergo the comics will function as a launching ground for screen-based adaptations. I don't know how that's likely to affect the quality of the comics, but we'll probably see I guess.

Anyway, that aside, don't worry about "being knocked back" in other forum users' estimations here by posting genuinely well-considered questions on the board like that above. Most folk probably just appreciate that you're here showing interest and are happy to spitball with you. Besides, everyone here came into their interest in Valiant via different avenues anyway so it's not like anyone has any particular right to slag anyone else off for the way they developed an interest in the company and its comics. For one, I originally discovered VEI through my appreciation of the 1990's Shadowman video game, and no-one's ever bashed me for stating that.

Sorry for putting a downer on the conversation right from the go, but they're just my honest feelings on the matter at the moment. I don't mean to get any backs up on the board here and wish VEI a long and prosperous future, but I can't see it happening under DMG management.

[SuperMage]

At this point it's a wait and see situation. Obviously I want Valiant to succeed.

[BugsySig]

Not supper confident. Outside of Marvel, no other cinematic universes have done particularly well. Even Star Wars hasn’t fared as well as would be expected. DC films have been terrible, or maybe they’d be doing better, but I’m not sure.

If it stays small (Bloodshot, Harbinger, Harbinger Wars) then maybe they can have some success. Otherwise, the best they can probably hope for is some of the individual films do OK. But I don’t ever expect to see a “Unity” film.

[Bl00dsh0t]

Bloodshot has a relatively big name leading character attached to it. If the story is halfway good I think it will be a success, sure not DC/Marvel success but hopefully turn enough profit to warrant more movies/exploration into TV.

Personally I think Valiant would be better suited to Netflix. I really liked the idea behind a Dr. Mirage and a Quantum & Woody show. Ninjak could also work well in this format.

[SlyTrooper]

Thank you all for your replies, I don't know too much about the film industry so it's interesting to hear what more knowledgeable people have to say.

In my opinion, I think the best way Bloodshot does well is for it to be advertised as something different than a superhero film. This is something Valiant itself is quite good at anyway, so this shouldn't (emphasis on 'shouldn't') be hard to do. It may be one, but not everybody who goes will know or even assume that it is. I don't expect it will be massive, but if it focuses on trying to be its own thing rather than another superhero film it could gather a reasonable following to justify continuing with the planned slate. The first sign that they're doing this will be for it to be R-rated. If it's not, given the character they're adapting, I will be worried. Just like with Deadpool, there are certain characters that are suited for older audiences. If they dilute it, which I can see them doing, then it will be another generic film that people ignore. Being the mature superhero universe could be a niche that allows it to rival the big 2. Deadpool makes good money, so this could as well. Also, if they can get the attention of audiences before DC regains its footing, that would help a lot.

[unityshadowman]

I'd be curious what dollar figure DMG would deem as a minimum for success.

Having a big name like Vin Diesel leading this film is almost a sure thing to draw viewers. I'm stoked he's attached to the role! But trying to view this as an outsider, hopefully the trailer sells him portraying a Punisher/Wolverine hybrid character [that presumably most people have never seen/heard of before] will be cool enought to get people into theaters. I remember watching the trailer for The Last Witch Hunter, was intrigued since Vin Diesel usually makes some enjoyable movies, but something didn't smell right. Ultimately, I passed on viewing, and wasn't really surprised the flick flopped - it had that feel. Was it a bad movie? Was it actually a decent movie that just didn't perform well? But I digress. So much is riding on a good Bloodshot movie, and the trailers have to totally sell it. Maybe a good soundtrack too? (Please don't suck, please don't suck...)

Some of the previous comments certainly offered food for thought. Personally, I'm not thinking of Bloodshot as a sure thing box office failure, but I'm wondering what the DMG number crunchers are hoping to generate in order to call it a success. Wonder what other films Bloodshot will be competing with at release time.

Not including his Fast & Furious and GotG franchises, I'd expect the film of a largely, unknown comic book character [with star power behind it] to operate like some of his other solo, action films:

Worldwide Gross (Source: https://www.the-numbers.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):
The Chronicles of Riddick (2004): $107,212,751
Riddick (2013): $94,763,758
The Last Witch Hunter (2015): $131,234,406
xXx: Return of Xander Cage (2017): $345,053,084

[SlyTrooper]

I'd be curious what dollar figure DMG would deem as a minimum for success.

Having a big name like Vin Diesel leading this film is almost a sure thing to draw viewers. I'm stoked he's attached to the role! But trying to view this as an outsider, hopefully the trailer sells him portraying a Punisher/Wolverine hybrid character [that presumably most people have never seen/heard of before] will be cool enought to get people into theaters. I remember watching the trailer for The Last Witch Hunter, was intrigued since Vin Diesel usually makes some enjoyable movies, but something didn't smell right. Ultimately, I passed on viewing, and wasn't really surprised the flick flopped - it had that feel. Was it a bad movie? Was it actually a decent movie that just didn't perform well? But I digress. So much is riding on a good Bloodshot movie, and the trailers have to totally sell it. Maybe a good soundtrack too? (Please don't suck, please don't suck...)

Some of the previous comments certainly offered food for thought. Personally, I'm not thinking of Bloodshot as a sure thing box office failure, but I'm wondering what the DMG number crunchers are hoping to generate in order to call it a success. Wonder what other films Bloodshot will be competing with at release time.

Not including his Fast & Furious and GotG franchises, I'd expect the film of a largely, unknown comic book character [with star power behind it] to operate like some of his other solo, action films:

Worldwide Gross (Source: https://www.the-numbers.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):
The Chronicles of Riddick (2004): $107,212,751
Riddick (2013): $94,763,758
The Last Witch Hunter (2015): $131,234,406
xXx: Return of Xander Cage (2017): $345,053,084

Vin Diesel is definitely one of the reasons I am slightly less worried about the film than I might otherwise be. He's a big star and that will definitely bring viewers. And even if it doesn't, I can at least enjoy it myself being a fan of the Riddick films.

[BugsySig]

Let me just say I'm not so worried about Bloodshot as an individual movie. With VD in the lead it should be a decent box office draw. I am, however, not as bullish on the "VALIANT Cinematic Universe." I'm just not sure there's an audience hungry for that. The MCU (and to a lesser extent the DCCU) are the culmination of 60-80 years of shared universe storytelling brought to a new medium. The same way The Lord of the Rings (and Narnia to a lesser extent) was able to be a success as a film franchise. VALIANT simply doesn't have the pop culture allure of those.

[DirtbagSailor]

I have never bought the whole “comic book movie over saturation” argument. People will watch a movie to be entertained; NOT because it is based on a comic book. They will watch a film because it has people shooting things and blowing stuff up. Did anyone really go to see Total Reval because it was a book first?

[Ricomortis]

Yea... They have stated numerous times... The movie is going to be a HARD R rating. I think this movie is going to be brutal. I hope it's a no name John Wick kind of success.

Guys... Don't forget about Sam Heughan from "Outlander". This boy is SUPER hot right now. I know several people now interested in this movie now just because of him. Guess what... They are ALL women. Lol

Rico

[SlyTrooper]

Let me just say I'm not so worried about Bloodshot as an individual movie. With VD in the lead it should be a decent box office draw. I am, however, not as bullish on the "VALIANT Cinematic Universe." I'm just not sure there's an audience hungry for that. The MCU (and to a lesser extent the DCCU) are the culmination of 60-80 years of shared universe storytelling brought to a new medium. The same way The Lord of the Rings (and Narnia to a lesser extent) was able to be a success as a film franchise. VALIANT simply doesn't have the pop culture allure of those.

I know what you mean, but I would argue that all it takes is a significant amount of positive word of mouth and then you get something like Deadpool or John Wick. I mean, nobody expected those films to be as big as they are. John Wick now has three films and an a TV show and Deadpool is (ignoring any changes when Disney buys Fox) leading towards X-Force. Neither of those necessarily would have been said to be what the audience wanted before they got them. This isn't to say that Bloodshot is going to be anything like these, but anything's possible.

[depluto]

I'm keeping an open mind, but it would be nice if DMG could get a little buzz going. Maybe it's too early but this whole thing feels off.

[jxm640]

I'm keeping an open mind, but it would be nice if DMG could get a little buzz going. Maybe it's too early but this whole thing feels off.

I know what you mean, but I trust DMG with the films (for the moment).


I think that they will know what to do regarding the Chinese market.


A major part of things feeling off could also be how much Dino interacted with the board. The lack of news from him on this board makes it seem odd compared to what we are used to.

[markie7235]

For many of the reasons people have already mentioned, the deck is slightly stacked against Valiant having a successful movie launch

That said, there's a lot of variables that can and would make it a success

First, is the script and writers. Look at super hero films like Batman Begins and Iron Man. Sure, both are well recognized franchises, but that has not always lead to box office success. Batman has had plenty of "bad" movie adaptations. And Spider-Man has certainly had a mixed bag in movie showings. What made Batman Begins and Iron Man so successful is they didn't try to be huge, but started simple, focused on the main character and their story. As mentioned in many other forums for some time, this is actually one of Valiant's strengths, so as long as they use the same approach they do in the comics, there's a lot of positive potential here. Last I checked, Eric Heisserer is the writer assigned currently to the film, so if that remains true, that bodes well.

Second, directors make a difference. Again, Batman Begins is a great example where the director took a great franchise but re-invented it in a way that was new and fresh for movie going audiences that made it feel relatable and new. Marvel has had similar ups and downs based on what director is used. Dave Wilson, who was one of the collaborator's on the Dead Pool movie is supposedly directing, which I'll take as a good thing for now.

Third, what studio is behind it. Sony has definitely had mixed showings on some of their film projects, but that again also depends on writer and director. Their Spider-Man movies were meh, but I felt it was also because they tried to tackle too many things at once in these films, especially in Amazing Spider-Man 2. Still, Sony has finances that if they properly back it, can produce a block buster movie.

Fourth, marketing. A successful social media and traditional advertising campaign makes a world of difference in attracting movie goers. You need people to know this movie exists and to offer a trailer that excites and pulls people in. If the right spend on marketing is done, you certainly can have a successful return at the box office.

Fifth, and certainly not least, is acting talent. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not a huge fan of Vin Diesel. I don't dislike his acting per se, but he's a very type-cast actor, and his acting can feel robotic. Then again, when your character is Bloodshot, that doesn't necessarily hurt. Still, Vin Diesel has big name appeal due to his incredibly successful Fast & the Furious series of movies, that he'll pull in movie goers who enjoy his films. As long as he portrays the character well, his attachment to the film is certainly a huge boon for success. Again, not a huge fan, but most movies he's been in have done very well in sales. Sales don't necessarily make a movie good, but they matter, especially if you're hoping to do additional films on a franchise.

So while it's a tough market, there are a lot of positives going for this film project. A lot will depend on the finished product and quality of the team writing and directing the movie. There's no guarantees of movie success any more, but I am hopeful based on some of the things I mentioned.

[The Dirt Gang]

First of all, I'm glad to hear that the movie news brought you to the comic. Did it bring you to comics in general or just Bloodshot and Valiant? I've been disappointed that movie or TV success has not led to more comic book success.

I'm in the camp that Valiant can have a successful film but I'm not confident that will turn into a successful cinematic universe. It's interesting that Marvel has been able to do it but DC has not. However, DC has created a successful shared TV universe. They've both found a formula that works for those mediums. I do think they have a leg up since a lot of their characters are household names whether you read comics or not.

My one fear in all of this is that like Marvel, successful films will drive the direction of the comic books. I love both movies and comics and I like comic book movies. However, I prefer when they each try to be their own things. I like comic books specifically because they can tell stories that don't necessarily work in film.

I do fear that if DMG were to sell these characters to a larger company, they could go the way of the Ultraverse or Gold Key if not successful.

[TheeBaldMoose]

There are a lot of fantastic break downs mentioned above, but I think the one thing that could be the biggest part of all of this is that your American Dollar won't really matter. What we as a country think of this movie won't make or break this movie. If, in America, it can get close to $75 million, then I think DMG might think this a success.

Remember, their overall plan was to bring this to China, an almost completely untapped market of nearly 1.4 billion people. Vin Diesel is a large draw for people in China, and that could be the saving grace of this franchise.

I think if we simply focus too much on what this movie will do in America, we fail to see the entire picture. There is more out there than just the American Dollar to be won.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Double post

[leonmallett]

I'd be curious what dollar figure DMG would deem as a minimum for success.

presumably to turn a decent profit as a minimum.

Not including his Fast & Furious and GotG franchises, I'd expect the film of a largely, unknown comic book character [with star power behind it] to operate like some of his other solo, action films:

Worldwide Gross (Source: https://www.the-numbers.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):
The Chronicles of Riddick (2004): $107,212,751
Riddick (2013): $94,763,758
The Last Witch Hunter (2015): $131,234,406
xXx: Return of Xander Cage (2017): $345,053,084

Using the assumption that: "Studios take only about half of the box office gross"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dorothypom ... 01e7724db2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Chronicles of Riddick (2004): $107,212,751; studio gross $53.6 million against $105–120 million budget (a loss)

Riddick (2013): $94,763,758; studio gross $47.4 million against $38 million (a small profit)

The Last Witch Hunter (2015): $131,234,406; studio gross $65.6 million against $90 million (a loss)

xXx: Return of Xander Cage (2017): $345,053,084; studio gross $172.5 million against $85 million (a profit)

Two losses and two profitable movies in there; I would make no assumption that Diesel is an automatic franchise draw outside of Fast and Furious or XXX.

[nonplayer]

If the movie is done well and not cheesy or like any other super hero movie. And Im meaning punisher.
I think it could go very well.
I am hopeful dmg will keep the charaters going qhether its comics or movies.
They have alot of work to do to do it. Butbif they get off their buts they can. So far they aint doing anything.
Time is fleating but its not gone.

[kinggirlfriend]

I'm not at all confident in film adaptations. I'm always astounded at the amount of comic readers who are unaware of Valiant. I don't see a movie improving that visibility. It'll most likely come and go without much notice or fanfare. I really hate that they seem to be basing the success of these properties on how well the tv and film adaptations perform. I hope one lackluster film doesn't sink the whole shebang.

[Ricomortis]

I don't know guys...

There is a TON of skepticism within our own Valiantfans group. Jeez!

Let me see here...

"Valiant will never Publish again" oops... Wrong answer!

"Oh well they won't last a year in this market" oops... Wrong answer!

"Well, the stories and art won't be as good as the ORIGINAL Valiant" oops... Wrong answer!

Not many people had confidence in Dino the first few years... Now everyone is livid that he was forced out. Ok... Whatever!

Each time they change books or direction or ideas, everyone cries Doom! Ok... Seems like they are still putting out good stuff.

I'm just saying... People are and have been wrong. It's kinda like my stock picks... I go against the grain and look for what I know is good. Valiant! Period!

Even if the movie flops... Everyone and I do mean YOU, never ever thought a Valiant movie would REALLY be made. But it is... And it might be good and it might not... But we would have NEVER gotten this far without DINO and all the hard work the Valiant peeps have put into it.

People may not know who Valiant is yet.. But just thru these actors names... Millions of people soon will.

I have a few original covers that I own that are just *SQUEE* phenomenal! I still have seen few covers in the industry that draw my attention like some of these. (Not saying this just cause I'm a Valiant fan... Cause I do like other books.. Lol) I also feel the same way with many of the stories Valiant has put out.

DMG might screw this up and they might not... But we at least got 6 more years out of Valiant than anyone ever thought we would. It's no skin off our backs if they crash and burn, so relax... Find the positive in something. Like I said.. I hope it's a brutal no name kind of success.

[SlyTrooper]

First of all, I'm glad to hear that the movie news brought you to the comic. Did it bring you to comics in general or just Bloodshot and Valiant? I've been disappointed that movie or TV success has not led to more comic book success.

It just brought me to Valiant. I've been reading comics since I was a kid, but had never heard of Valiant before the movie announcement.

[BugsySig]

I think there’s a difference between a movie franchise and a cinematic universe. I think Bloodshot could be, and very well may become, a movie franchise. Maybe even combined with Harbinger, there could be 3-5 films.

I am less enthusiastic about the prospects of a VALIANT Cinematic Universe that includes all of the tent pole characters from A&A to Shadowman to XO, etc. ultimately leading to a Justice League/Avengers type movie mashup. Ninjas Vs. may be the closest we ever get.

[The Dirt Gang]

I think there’s a difference between a movie franchise and a cinematic universe. I think Bloodshot could be, and very well may become, a movie franchise. Maybe even combined with Harbinger, there could be 3-5 films.

I am less enthusiastic about the prospects of a VALIANT Cinematic Universe that includes all of the tent pole characters from A&A to Shadowman to XO, etc. ultimately leading to a Justice League/Avengers type movie mashup. Ninjas Vs. may be the closest we ever get.

+1

I do think what we've seen from the successful Marvel movies and DC TV shows is that you have to approach it different than it had been done before. Marvel has hired smaller filmmakers to put out their films starting with Jon Favreau.

Similarly, DC had a Dawson's Creek type approach to young Superman in Smallville.

I think with any adaptation it's important to be faithful to the spirit and character of the material but not make it a carbon copy just in another medium since each medium (film, TV, comics, books) works very differently in the way they tell a story.

First of all, I'm glad to hear that the movie news brought you to the comic. Did it bring you to comics in general or just Bloodshot and Valiant? I've been disappointed that movie or TV success has not led to more comic book success.

It just brought me to Valiant. I've been reading comics since I was a kid, but had never heard of Valiant before the movie announcement.

Happy to hear it!