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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:09:05 am 
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https://youtu.be/KKFP1MxH6_A

The question about VEI starts at about 6:38.

It's good to see Jim's been going to a lot of conventions the last year or so, and he seems to be enjoying the comics world again :thumb:

It does make one wonder 2 things: 1. What did Jim work on for 7 months (I think I remember hearing Ninjak?) and was any of it ever used? (I kinda doubt it)

2. What if they would have announced they had Shooter working for them at the time? Would Shooter still have left for Dark Horse?

That would have been around 2009 IIRC, I'm pretty sure the people on this board at least would have been ecstatic had they known Shooter was back. But when you see the more modern comics style (I won't call it DC Lite) that VEI ultimately went with, it's hard to imagine Shooter's style meshing really well with that vision :? Maybe everything was going to work out like this either way, and the reason they didn't announce that they had Shooter working for them was that they still weren't sure on the direction they wanted to go in at that time. One can only speculate.

Sorry if this stuff has already been discussed on here, haven't had much time recently to keep up with things.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:09:31 pm 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
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Good stuff, thanks for posting!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:49:23 pm 
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Ryan wrote:
https://youtu.be/KKFP1MxH6_A

The question about VEI starts at about 6:38.

It's good to see Jim's been going to a lot of conventions the last year or so, and he seems to be enjoying the comics world again :thumb:

It does make one wonder 2 things: 1. What did Jim work on for 7 months (I think I remember hearing Ninjak?) and was any of it ever used? (I kinda doubt it)

2. What if they would have announced they had Shooter working for them at the time? Would Shooter still have left for Dark Horse?

That would have been around 2009 IIRC, I'm pretty sure the people on this board at least would have been ecstatic had they known Shooter was back. But when you see the more modern comics style (I won't call it DC Lite) that VEI ultimately went with, it's hard to imagine Shooter's style meshing really well with that vision :? Maybe everything was going to work out like this either way, and the reason they didn't announce that they had Shooter working for them was that they still weren't sure on the direction they wanted to go in at that time. One can only speculate.

Sorry if this stuff has already been discussed on here, haven't had much time recently to keep up with things.


Considering what he did to VEI, which he got fired for, it's not for him to hold ill will

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:48:34 pm 
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paradise wrote:

Considering what he did to VEI, which he got fired for, it's not for him to hold ill will


I don't have any inside knowledge, just memory from the time. VEI hid him in a closet? And then he stole a laptop? Then he jumped ship to Dark Horse in the middle of the night or something?

Anyway not trying to relitigate the past. Considering how shortly lived the Dark Horse Gold Key comics line was and how much commitment VEI has shown to putting out quality comics the last 5+ years, it's really too bad that things didn't work out better. Sounds like it wasn't the right fit for either side though.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:00:35 pm 
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He sold the gold key characters to dark horse while he was editor in chief of vei. That's pretty unforgivable, imho

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:19:57 pm 
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
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I don't think he was a good fit either. I think VEI is way better than V1 and I'm glad they chose to go in a fresh direction. I just read the new story he did for the A&A FIRST IMPRESSIONS hardcover, the History of the Sect, .... I thought it was horrible.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:03:17 pm 
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paradise wrote:
He sold the gold key characters to dark horse while he was editor in chief of vei. That's pretty unforgivable, imho


That's interesting, it really sounds like he didn't take the VEI guys seriously, which is unfortunate. The whole thing is unfortunate, because at that time all the Valiant fans just wanted to see the new Valiant with Shooter involved, and that's what Dinesh/VEI were trying to deliver.

Having read the DH/GK books, I think for the modern audiences Shooter would be better as editorial overseer than actually writing all the books. However in my opinion, the body of work from VH1 up through Unity still holds up as some of the best work ever produced in superhero comics, and without that there's none of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:05:12 pm 
Chapa Zero in Portuguese translated to English would be Chapa Zero.
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Ryan wrote:
paradise wrote:
He sold the gold key characters to dark horse while he was editor in chief of vei. That's pretty unforgivable, imho


That's interesting, it really sounds like he didn't take the VEI guys seriously, which is unfortunate. The whole thing is unfortunate, because at that time all the Valiant fans just wanted to see the new Valiant with Shooter involved, and that's what Dinesh/VEI were trying to deliver.

Having read the DH/GK books, I think for the modern audiences Shooter would be better as editorial overseer than actually writing all the books. However in my opinion, the body of work from VH1 up through Unity still holds up as some of the best work ever produced in superhero comics, and without that there's none of this.


Blessings in disguise? 8-)
I'm just gonna say that the GK characters going to DH was one of the best things that could have happened to Dinesh & Co. Without that move- maybe NO Divinity, Savage or War-Mother (these to me are the VEI GK fill-ins- and any of them is way more interesting and deep than the OG characters).
I kinda facepalm that so many people are sooooooo in love with these 3 old dudes, to the point they STILL think that Valiant is NOT the same as it was because there's no Solar, Turok or Magnus. "Oh, Valiant to me is those 3 and blahblahblah...."

Well, yeah it is NOT the same company.
It got way better. IMHO.

(oh, and I have read their books, when I got into VEI- good stuff for its time, but nothing than can be compared to the best that VEI has put out)

My :twocents:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:11:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:45:52 pm
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:hm: Sounds like Shooter could be indirectly taking a shot at Dinesh when he says " ....I also understand this guy who is ex-Marvel, he used to be a big shot at Marvel, and I can't remember his name right now,uhmmm.... But he's been good about getting movie projects going and things, HE IS A REAL EXECUTIVE....YA KNOW, I MEAN HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING."

He makes this comment after saying he left VEI after 7 months because the leadership didn't have any background in publishing...which frustrated him.

To me it sounds like he is implying that the current executive is a REAL executive and the previous executive when he was there was not a REAL executive. Seems ashame to me considering VEI did bring Shooter onboard for a short stint at the beginning (i guess before 2012 when production started?) seemingly valueing him. But, apparently things were not working out and he had to leave VEI for whatever reason.

I know we all value him for getting this thing going with VH1 and Dinesh for restarting with VEI and getting things to this point.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:25:16 pm 
Where are you now?
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I was with Dinesh when this all went down right around SDCC that year. I wouldn't necessarily say JS was "fired", I would say he chose his own path and was disloyal to those that were paying him at that time. The Gold Key properties were in play and JS had a personal relationship with the owners and refused to use that to benefit VEI at the time for reasons only known to him and maybe Jason. I also know that VEI at the time had no idea JS had left their employ when the GK announcement was made by Dark Horse and he was introduced as the new line editor by Richardson that Friday afternoon at SDCC. I thought at the time it showed a lack of professionalism and class on his part, I'm sure his version would show himself in a different light, just like his Massarsky story and his stories about Layton and such. As others have said, it's probably the best thing that ever happened to them, a real wake up call.
Since that time, VEI/Dinesh have been a lot more relevant in the industry than JS, worked harder, and made a lot more money too.

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Last edited by wrunow on Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:57:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:51:33 pm 
not unlike me
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I appreciate Jim Shooter for 1990s Valiant, but it's really weird for him to disapprove of a young Dinesh who had finished USC Film School as "didn't know what he was doing" in comics when Jim Shooter is famously the guy who got started by writing comics for D.C. at age 14. Shooter became a success because a comic book industry legend gave him a chance when he didn't know anything at all. But he couldn't do the same for a young prestigious college graduate in modern media... who was paying him.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:17:34 pm 
I think you might be a closeted Canadian.
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greg wrote:
I appreciate Jim Shooter for 1990s Valiant, but it's really weird for him to disapprove of a young Dinesh who had finished USC Film School as "didn't know what he was doing" in comics when Jim Shooter is famously the guy who got started by writing comics for D.C. at age 14. Shooter became a success because a comic book industry legend gave him a chance when he didn't know anything at all. But he couldn't do the same for a young prestigious college graduate in modern media... who was paying him.
I see this kind of stuff happen a lot in many industries, and I can never figure out why there isn't more impetus to pay it forward.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:39:27 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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greg wrote:
I appreciate Jim Shooter for 1990s Valiant, but it's really weird for him to disapprove of a young Dinesh who had finished USC Film School as "didn't know what he was doing" in comics when Jim Shooter is famously the guy who got started by writing comics for D.C. at age 14. Shooter became a success because a comic book industry legend gave him a chance when he didn't know anything at all. But he couldn't do the same for a young prestigious college graduate in modern media... who was paying him.


I get what you're saying but the comparison has significant differences. Setting aside the DH ship jumping for a moment...

Shooter got his chance because he created actual comic books (writing, covers, pencils and color) that he sent to DC and were approved. He continued to produce and that got him noticed by the powers-that-be. But he wasn't just handed a chance on his word that he could make something happen, someday.

But with VEI, was he the powers-that-be or were they? He had a clear track record of success, they had never published a single issue. I'm sure, to him, at that moment in time long before anything had been produced, he might have felt that they weren't up to it.

Now, he was wrong, to be sure. And Valiant may be better without him or the GK3 since it allowed them to become something new and not a rehash of VH1. But having spoken with the guy at length, I have doubts about him jumping ship out of malice or callous disregard.

That being said, I am on the record as being displeased with how they parted ways. It is unfortunate that two guys I genuinely respect, Dinesh and Shooter, have something of a contretemps between them. It will suffice in part, for me, that he holds no ill will and wishes them the best.

Like I said, unfortunate.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:50:19 pm 
not unlike me
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Agreed.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:58:18 am 
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jmatt wrote:
That being said, I am on the record as being displeased with how they parted ways. It is unfortunate that two guys I genuinely respect, Dinesh and Shooter, have something of a contretemps between them. It will suffice in part, for me, that he holds no ill will and wishes them the best.


Yes. The more I think about it, the more it seems like a massive breakdown in communication. I only know Dinesh from when we were all just fans posting on the boards, but I'm pretty sure he always had a great deal of respect if not reverence for Shooter, like many of us old school fans have.

I feel confident to assume that the only reason they were 'hiding' the fact that Shooter was working there was only so that they could make the eventual announcement at the most opportune time. I HIGHLY DOUBT that Dinesh and crew were doing it because they were ashamed of him or to be disrespectful. So if Shooter felt that way it either points to a communication breakdown or he was looking for a reason to leave.

Not having been there or knowing any intimate details, I'll just echo that I also have great respect for both and it was probably for the best that VEI got to become it's own new thing. Really curious to hear what's going on with VEI now and when (or if) we'll ever hear from Dinesh how things went down.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:37:19 pm 
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It points to Shooter having an ego the size of a small state. He was not happy because it was not him bringing Valiant back. You know Dinesh, he's a master of communicating at the right time and picking opportunities perfectly. Jim needed to have his ego stroked, and when that did not happen, he screwed VEI.

NOT a day goes by that someone does not ask about why VEI does not have Solar, Magnus or Turok. It's his fault. I don't have much respect left based on that alone.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:45:05 am 
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Interesting stuff in this thread. I never knew the whole story just always found it sad that it seemed things were left a bit acrimonious.

I love all the worlds Shooter has had a hand in creating (VH1, Defiant, Broadway) and VH1 Unity #1 might be the most pivotal book in my comic buying years but I do always wonder why it is that Shooter seems to have falling out after falling out.

I definitely don't think VEI needed the three Gold Key characters but I love those characters as much as any VEI property and would have loved to see their spin on them. They've done such a great job of resurrecting the Valiant stable and I can only imagine they would have done the same with the Gold Key 3. It's sad that those characters have not had meaningful run since VH1.

:twocents:

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