Divinity 3 - Continuity?

[Jrosen]

I just finished Divinity 3, and I'm a little confused on where it fits into the continuity.

If we are to believe that everything took place, then I place it in the timeline somewhere before Bloodshot USA. If I recall correctly, Ninjak mentions that Aric has been gone for awhile in that series. Since Aric is in Divinity 3, then it needs to occur before he leaves. Yet, in the Bloodshot one-shot, Livewire is killed, which can't happen because she is very much alive in Bloodshot USA.

So, the way I see it, either Livewire wasn't killed in the Divinity 3 or I'm missing something in the continuity.

Any help?

[kinggirlfriend]

Fun enough ride, but I agree it doesn't really make sense.

If the Red Brigade were "created" or came from that reality then couldn't they also say that some characters were forever trapped there? They made it sound like the Divinities created a huge illusion, but illusions are harmless are they not? If it really happened wouldn't there be more evidence, such as newspapers, video footage, etc. I know they just wanted to promote it as being not another alternate reality comic book story but that's what it is, IMO. It doesn't make sense any other way. Four issues wasn't long enough to flesh out the concept, and the one-shots were some of the weaker Valiant event tie-ins. It would have been great if all the Valiant comics became corrupted by Stalinverse for 4 months, similar to X-Men's Age of Apocalypse. But as a Valiant fan I'm glad it was rather self contained.

Again strictly my opinion. Would love to hear other people's take on it.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Fun enough ride, but I agree it doesn't really make sense.

If the Red Brigade were "created" or came from that reality then couldn't they also say that some characters were forever trapped there? They made it sound like the Divinities created a huge illusion, but illusions are harmless are they not? If it really happened wouldn't there be more evidence, such as newspapers, video footage, etc. I know they just wanted to promote it as being not another alternate reality comic book story but that's what it is, IMO. It doesn't make sense any other way. Four issues wasn't long enough to flesh out the concept, and the one-shots were some of the weaker Valiant event tie-ins. It would have been great if all the Valiant comics became corrupted by Stalinverse for 4 months, similar to X-Men's Age of Apocalypse. But as a Valiant fan I'm glad it was rather self contained.

Again strictly my opinion. Would love to hear other people's take on it.

I do believe this is all explained in Divinity III #4, but I would have to go back and re-read it myself.

"Worldwide mass psychosis" is how I found it explained. As Kazmir left earth, it was up to Divinity (and I do believe Pete) to rewire everyone's mind, and set the reality back to the way it should be. Live Wire's death came in a one-shot. Now you can view this as part of the mass psychosis, so she really didn't die.

Here is Amy Okamoto's words on this, as it sums the event up pretty darn good

"Valiant’s approach to the mini-series is what made the story so compelling. The Stalinverse wasn’t an alternative timeline or plane of reality – it simply was the new reality. The original Divinity mini-series described time like thumbing through the pages of a book. In Stalinverse, those pages were edited and rewritten. Going forward, the Valiant universe was the Stalinverse, unless someone could intervene."

Here's the rest of her review

http://all-comic.com/2017/divinity-iii-stalinverse-4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kinggirlfriend]

Right. But I guess that doesn't really explain the Red Brigade does it? I'm assuming before Stalinverse they all existed but as regular or different interpretations of the characters they became? And for whatever reason they were stuck that way? I wonder if any of this will ever be brought up again.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Right. But I guess that doesn't really explain the Red Brigade does it? I'm assuming before Stalinverse they all existed but as regular or different interpretations of the characters they became? And for whatever reason they were stuck that way? I wonder if any of this will ever be brought up again.

Divinity 0 explained this as some type of phenomenon, and he decided to let them live. They were a manifestation that stuck, for some reason. Each one of the Red Brigade is an actual story (and they are pretty good) with some slight manipulations in their story line. Kosity the Deathless was supposed to be a man, not a woman. Baba Yaga was a supernatural being/God not human (but was depicted as a woman).

Some fun speculation is that HW2 may have a cameo of Red Legend as the books elude to Red Legend supposedly is to guard a super-natural being like Alpha (to protect the world from him or something like that). We also already know that Kosity is supposed to be in Ninja-K, but as a bad guy. This will be interesting, as I really want to see how they get her on their side.

It could be that Kosity and Baba Yaga become bad guys, and we already know that Red Legend is the "Wonder Woman" of our books. Just curious how they will fit The Pioneer into all this.

[Jrosen]

Fun enough ride, but I agree it doesn't really make sense.

If the Red Brigade were "created" or came from that reality then couldn't they also say that some characters were forever trapped there? They made it sound like the Divinities created a huge illusion, but illusions are harmless are they not? If it really happened wouldn't there be more evidence, such as newspapers, video footage, etc. I know they just wanted to promote it as being not another alternate reality comic book story but that's what it is, IMO. It doesn't make sense any other way. Four issues wasn't long enough to flesh out the concept, and the one-shots were some of the weaker Valiant event tie-ins. It would have been great if all the Valiant comics became corrupted by Stalinverse for 4 months, similar to X-Men's Age of Apocalypse. But as a Valiant fan I'm glad it was rather self contained.

Again strictly my opinion. Would love to hear other people's take on it.

I do believe this is all explained in Divinity III #4, but I would have to go back and re-read it myself.

"Worldwide mass psychosis" is how I found it explained. As Kazmir left earth, it was up to Divinity (and I do believe Pete) to rewire everyone's mind, and set the reality back to the way it should be. Live Wire's death came in a one-shot. Now you can view this as part of the mass psychosis, so she really didn't die.

Here is Amy Okamoto's words on this, as it sums the event up pretty darn good

"Valiant’s approach to the mini-series is what made the story so compelling. The Stalinverse wasn’t an alternative timeline or plane of reality – it simply was the new reality. The original Divinity mini-series described time like thumbing through the pages of a book. In Stalinverse, those pages were edited and rewritten. Going forward, the Valiant universe was the Stalinverse, unless someone could intervene."

Here's the rest of her review

http://all-comic.com/2017/divinity-iii-stalinverse-4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Her review points out the one problem I have with the continuity...

"Kindt handled the solution to the crisis with aplomb. He left no stone unturned, addressing every contingency and question a reader may encounter about the event. It should come as no surprise that the Stalinverse could not remain Valiant’s reality indefinitely, but there are repercussions that affect the Valiant universe. For instance, many new characters were introduced, and still others died. For spoiler reasons, I won’t reveal the fate of the Red Brigade or of the fallen, but readers will be satisfied seeing how these issues are handled."

Did they really die? Going back to the Bloodshot one-shot, everyone dies except for Magic. Yet, they are all living at in Bloodshot USA.

I don't want to be a stickler for continuity, god knows the problems through the years at the Big 2, but Valiant has always been a "dead means dead" world. This story seemed to throw a wrench in it.

[Keith]

Yeah, it becomes tricky when you deal with three beings able to manipulate reality like Divinity. I think it also complicates things that the whole event was dubbed a mass psychosis. So what was real and what wasn’t?? But we do know that Abram was trying to undo what Kazmir had changed, so is it feasible/possible for him to resurrect Livewire and others? Or were they just considered part of the psychosis?

But I agree with the proximity to Bloodshot USA for the timing. Magic’s pregnancy being well underway in Divinity #0, which occurs shortly after Stalinverse. The mysteries are Aric and Peter Stanchek. Peter left Earth a long time ago... how is he present for all this??

[TheeBaldMoose]

Did anyone beyond that specific one-shot die? I do see where you guys are coming from, and it is hard defending that one shot and their deaths. The only thing I can chalk it up to is the psychosis, but I would hate to lean on that.

As far as timing, I would say that this happens after Bloodshot USA, but before the pregnancy. We only find out the pregnancy after Bloodshot USA in the 0 issue before Salvation. There is no exact time reference for this from BS USA (from what I can remember)

If Divinity was able to reset things, no one would know what happened, really. It would be like a second in time, resetting everyone back to the way things were. I do believe though that the entire event was part of Kazmir's psychosis that he created. Remember the Stallinverse timeline. So if Kazmir created the psychosis in the world, re-tweaking the worlds timeline, maybe Divinity was able to reset the world right back to a second after Kazmir created everything... Something to ponder

In Divinity 0, there is no exact reference to time, so his visits to the other characters could have been dragged out some. Also, as far as time, those checks may not have all happened in the order we read them. How long would it take Divinity to reach out to Aric?

I know there are holes in this story line, surprised that no one actually locked onto one of the bigger holes in this series. Harada was activated during the atomic bomb drop on Hiroshima. In the tweaked story line created by Kazmir, there was never a bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima, it was on a different city all together. Yet, Harada was one of the members who helped Ninjak, and he was activated. How? He wasn't born activated, right?

[Jrosen]

Yeah, it becomes tricky when you deal with three beings able to manipulate reality like Divinity. I think it also complicates things that the whole event was dubbed a mass psychosis. So what was real and what wasn’t?? But we do know that Abram was trying to undo what Kazmir had changed, so is it feasible/possible for him to resurrect Livewire and others? Or were they just considered part of the psychosis?

But I agree with the proximity to Bloodshot USA for the timing. Magic’s pregnancy being well underway in Divinity #0, which occurs shortly after Stalinverse. The mysteries are Aric and Peter Stanchek. Peter left Earth a long time ago... how is he present for all this??

I don't remember the end of Harbinger, but does it show him leaving? I know Peter isn't in anything until Renegades, but I don't recall anything specific showing him leaving.

[Jrosen]

Did anyone beyond that specific one-shot die? I do see where you guys are coming from, and it is hard defending that one shot and their deaths. The only thing I can chalk it up to is the psychosis, but I would hate to lean on that.

As far as timing, I would say that this happens after Bloodshot USA, but before the pregnancy. We only find out the pregnancy after Bloodshot USA in the 0 issue before Salvation. There is no exact time reference for this from BS USA (from what I can remember)

If Divinity was able to reset things, no one would know what happened, really. It would be like a second in time, resetting everyone back to the way things were. I do believe though that the entire event was part of Kazmir's psychosis that he created. Remember the Stallinverse timeline. So if Kazmir created the psychosis in the world, re-tweaking the worlds timeline, maybe Divinity was able to reset the world right back to a second after Kazmir created everything... Something to ponder

In Divinity 0, there is no exact reference to time, so his visits to the other characters could have been dragged out some. Also, as far as time, those checks may not have all happened in the order we read them. How long would it take Divinity to reach out to Aric?

I know there are holes in this story line, surprised that no one actually locked onto one of the bigger holes in this series. Harada was activated during the atomic bomb drop on Hiroshima. In the tweaked story line created by Kazmir, there was never a bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima, it was on a different city all together. Yet, Harada was one of the members who helped Ninjak, and he was activated. How? He wasn't born activated, right?

I don't think anyone of note dies in the Divinity 3 books outside of the one-shots. The one shots just don't make much sense in terms of continuity. I agree that it all could be part of the psychosis, but that doesn't sit well with me.

The way I read Divinity 3 is that everything happened before Kazmir came back, he just changed the memories. So Hiroshima actually took place, but no one remembers that it took place. Since the psychosis didn't hold on Harada, he may be the only one who remember the bomb taking place.

Then once Divinity 3 occurs, people experienced life (not including Ninjak, Peter, and Harada) with the fake memories until Divinity resets them. Using the same logic as before, if someone breaks their arm during the psychosis, their arm would stay broken once the memories are reset. They may not know or have a different memory of how they broke their arm in the first place.

Of course, this is all my rationale, and I would love to hear other people's view. I'm just really having difficulties with the one-shots. The rest of the story seems to align within the continuity.

I haven't read Divinity 0. So if anything is explained there then I haven't seen it.

[jxm640]

Yeah, it becomes tricky when you deal with three beings able to manipulate reality like Divinity. I think it also complicates things that the whole event was dubbed a mass psychosis. So what was real and what wasn’t?? But we do know that Abram was trying to undo what Kazmir had changed, so is it feasible/possible for him to resurrect Livewire and others? Or were they just considered part of the psychosis?

But I agree with the proximity to Bloodshot USA for the timing. Magic’s pregnancy being well underway in Divinity #0, which occurs shortly after Stalinverse. The mysteries are Aric and Peter Stanchek. Peter left Earth a long time ago... how is he present for all this??

I don't remember the end of Harbinger, but does it show him leaving? I know Peter isn't in anything until Renegades, but I don't recall anything specific showing him leaving.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that they showed Peter leaving for Space at the end of the three part Harbinger series (Omegas?) Peter was shown escaping into space.

Kind regards

[jxm640]

Sorry for the second post.

While the mass psychoses makes sense, I always thought of this as the butterfly effect.

Essentially, small changes were made to the past in order to create the Stalinverse outcome (almost like a shift in frequency), distorting the rest of the universe in order to create the Stalinverse. Harada, Ninjak etc are able to remember the original universe because their strong minds are tethered to the original universe's frequency.

I hope that this theory also explains why Livewire is still alive. When Divinity tries to return the universe to normal, he can't fix it 100%.

Kind Regards

[kinggirlfriend]

Sorry for the second post.

While the mass psychoses makes sense, I always thought of this as the butterfly effect.

Essentially, small changes were made to the past in order to create the Stalinverse outcome (almost like a shift in frequency), distorting the rest of the universe in order to create the Stalinverse. Harada, Ninjak etc are able to remember the original universe because their strong minds are tethered to the original universe's frequency.

I hope that this theory also explains why Livewire is still alive. When Divinity tries to return the universe to normal, he can't fix it 100%.

Kind Regards

That makes the most sense to me.