Faith - Good or not?

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Faith - Good or not?

Post by SlyTrooper »

I've recently purchased almost every Valiant book that has been collected from the 2012 reboot (not including upcoming deluxe releases or ones I think will be deluxe soon), and I am now left with just Faith & Faith & the Future Force to get. I was wondering what people's opinions are on these two titles and whether it's worth getting now or to wait a bit to save money?

I like Faith as a character, but mainly as a supporting character. I've never understood her immense popularity and I think the concept, as an overweight relatable superhero, is a bit ridiculous. I don't want my dislike of this to put me off a potentially good story though, so I would be appreciative of your opinions. Thank you.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by TheFerg714 »

Mini-series: Interesting, but kind of bland.

Ongoing (1-9): Surprisingly engaging. Really fun in a 'classic meets modern' sort of way.

Ongoing (10-12): Really disappointing, but still fun.

Future Force: Not good. 4/10

Overall, I'd say it was a good idea, but now it's run it's course. It doesn't make any money at all. People obviously aren't interested, and the people that claim they're interested don't buy comic books. She works way better as a supporting character; showing how important levity and hope is in such a harsh and rough world. It was a fun experiment, but now it's time to hang up the gloves and just make her a good character in Renegade.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by jeremycoe »

I enjoy it, for whatever that's worth.
TheFerg714 wrote: It doesn't make any money at all.
Not sure how you can make that claim unless you work at VEI. There is a lot we don't know.
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by TheFerg714 »

jeremycoe wrote:Not sure how you can make that claim unless you work at VEI. There is a lot we don't know.
October - 4722 units sold, lowest selling Valiant title - Future Force 4
September- 5056 units, lowest selling Valiant title - Future Force 3
August- FF #2 is mysteriously missing, but 'Vol. 4: The Faithless' landed at #130 on the top-selling trades list.
July- 7888 units, 5th highest selling Valiant title - Future Force 1 (that's not a very good jump in sales for a #1)
June- 5291, lowest selling title - #12
May- 5253, 2nd lowest selling title - #11
April- 5875, 3rd lowest selling title - #10 (beginning of The Faithless). Vol. 3 shows up at #130 (weird).
March- 5771, #9 - "special one-shot story" - Vol. 1 at 272.
February- 6018, #8
January- 6434, #7, Vol. 1 at 195

These numbers are REALLY bad and Faith deserves to be shelved, at least for a while, in place of higher-selling, more interesting characters and stories.

If anything, stop doing floppies, and release periodical trades instead. They would probably sell a lot better.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by jeremycoe »

TheFerg714 wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:Not sure how you can make that claim unless you work at VEI. There is a lot we don't know.
October - 4722 units sold, lowest selling Valiant title - Future Force 4
September- 5056 units, lowest selling Valiant title - Future Force 3
August- FF #2 is mysteriously missing, but 'Vol. 4: The Faithless' landed at #130 on the top-selling trades list.
July- 7888 units, 5th highest selling Valiant title - Future Force 1 (that's not a very good jump in sales for a #1)
June- 5291, lowest selling title - #12
May- 5253, 2nd lowest selling title - #11
April- 5875, 3rd lowest selling title - #10 (beginning of The Faithless). Vol. 3 shows up at #130 (weird).
March- 5771, #9 - "special one-shot story" - Vol. 1 at 272.
February- 6018, #8
January- 6434, #7, Vol. 1 at 195

These numbers are REALLY bad and Faith deserves to be shelved, at least for a while, in place of higher-selling, more interesting characters and stories.

If anything, stop doing floppies, and release periodical trades instead. They would probably sell a lot better.
That still doesn't mean what you claimed, and Faith is the type of book that seems like it would do better than most digitally.
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by jeremycoe »

Her series kind of reflects the hero that Faith is, a little more sweet and naive than the average Valiant hero. My 13 year old daughter loves the book, but I'm not sure I'm ready to let her read any other VEI title. It's a fun book. Hopefully that gives you some better idea what to expect.
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by SlyTrooper »

jeremycoe wrote:Her series kind of reflects the hero that Faith is, a little more sweet and naive than the average Valiant hero. My 13 year old daughter loves the book, but I'm not sure I'm ready to let her read any other VEI title. It's a fun book. Hopefully that gives you some better idea what to expect.
TheFerg714 wrote:Mini-series: Interesting, but kind of bland.

Ongoing (1-9): Surprisingly engaging. Really fun in a 'classic meets modern' sort of way.

Ongoing (10-12): Really disappointing, but still fun.

Future Force: Not good. 4/10

Overall, I'd say it was a good idea, but now it's run it's course. It doesn't make any money at all. People obviously aren't interested, and the people that claim they're interested don't buy comic books. She works way better as a supporting character; showing how important levity and hope is in such a harsh and rough world. It was a fun experiment, but now it's time to hang up the gloves and just make her a good character in Renegade.
Thank you for your opinions. I think I'll wait a bit. Might get the books alongside the deluxe Secret Weapons when that's released.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by WrathOfArmstrong »

Faith--- the first mini is decent, harmless--ties into the universe.
The ongoing left a lot to be desired.
Faith and the Future Force was fun, but too quick--think single episode of an hour long tv show that you have to watch over 4 months.

And that's what Faith is overall for me... it's the Supergirl TV series currently playing. I like the characters, but the threats and the plots aren't make or break. It's villain of the week. I think it has its place and audience, and I'm not opposed. Faith in the Harbinger (dysart run) is one of my favorites, but as a stand alone she has yet to receive a story worth being told.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by SlyTrooper »

WrathOfArmstrong wrote:Faith--- the first mini is decent, harmless--ties into the universe.
The ongoing left a lot to be desired.
Faith and the Future Force was fun, but too quick--think single episode of an hour long tv show that you have to watch over 4 months.

And that's what Faith is overall for me... it's the Supergirl TV series currently playing. I like the characters, but the threats and the plots aren't make or break. It's villain of the week. I think it has its place and audience, and I'm not opposed. Faith in the Harbinger (dysart run) is one of my favorites, but as a stand alone she has yet to receive a story worth being told.
I get why Valiant push her to the forefront so much, even though I'm opposed to the agenda, but I don't get how they can warrant giving Faith her own series over say H.A.R.D Corps for example.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by TheFerg714 »

SlyTrooper wrote:I get why Valiant push her to the forefront so much, even though I'm opposed to the agenda, but I don't get how they can warrant giving Faith her own series over say H.A.R.D Corps for example.
Well, for a while there an ongoing series was fully warranted. She had a lot of hype behind her following the first mini. She was all over various entertainment news sites, sales for her mini-series actually increased from the second to third issue (if I'm remembering correctly). On top of that, her series was wildly successful there for a while. So much so that Valiant used her face in the 'ICONS' marketing image. I'm fairly certain her first trade is one of the highest selling Valiant trades out there.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by kinggirlfriend »

I asked this same question a couple months back. Read everything else from VEI except for Faith, Rafer's A+A, the original Q&W, Dead Drop and the second half of Shadowman.

I kept meaning to post an update but never got around to it. I ended up reading Shadowman and all of Faith. I plan on eventually reading Q&W it's a matter of when not if.

I ended up really enjoying Faith. It's definitely a lighter book, like the you guys said, similar to the character herself. It isn't Dysart's Faith. I could only imagine what a Faith series by Dysart would be like. Oh well.

What it is is a fun little book of a fun character. If you've enjoyed everything else from VEI I'd say yes definitely check it out. The mini ties the most into the rest of VEI universe. I'd break the series down thusly:

Mini: Introduces the status quo, Faith's job and new identity. Has the Vine, Torque and Archer showing up. If I'd known it was about the Vine (yeah it's in the arc title, I'm a dummy) I would have jumped at it sooner. I love that certain background elements like the Vine, the Faraway, the Deadside, etc., run through many books and for me that's enough of a hook to check it out.

1-12: Starts with several 2-issue arcs that has each one introducing Faith to a new villain before they all decide to team up against her in the final arc. My only complaint is I felt like the art could have been stronger and wasn't really up to VEI's standards. It fits the character just fine but I can't help but feel like stronger artists would have elevated the series and made it easier for some VEI fans to accept. I am however in love with Marguerite Sauvage's art on the fantasy sequences. Really wish she would have done all the art for the whole series. It would have given it the gloss it needed, IMO.

Future Force: I feel that I liked this more than most here, it's a fun story that is a great call back to the end of the mini. I loved the art! Some of Valiant's best rotating through each issue. I wish the main series looked this good. It's still a Faith story and lines up with the rest of the series. It's not really the universe shattering event it was pushed as being. The cameos and whatnot are just window dressing. It's actually quite a small isolated tale.

Winter Wonderland Special: Again, I kinda feel like I'm the only one here that liked this. It's a cute little holiday fantasy tale. I love Francis Portela and his art is a nice callback to the mini and bookends the whole series.

So yeah, check it out. At least start with the mini, it's cheap and fun.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by Shadowman99 »

WrathOfArmstrong wrote:Faith (The first mini): Decent, harmless--ties into the universe.
Faith (Ongoing): Left a lot to be desired.
Faith and the Future Force: Fun, but too quick--think single episode of an hour long tv show that you have to watch over 4 months.

I like the characters, but the threats and the plots aren't make or break. It's villain of the week. I think it has its place and audience, and I'm not opposed. Faith in the Harbinger (dysart run) is one of my favorites, but as a stand alone she has yet to receive a story worth being told.
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by SlyTrooper »

kinggirlfriend wrote:I asked this same question a couple months back. Read everything else from VEI except for Faith, Rafer's A+A, the original Q&W, Dead Drop and the second half of Shadowman.

I kept meaning to post an update but never got around to it. I ended up reading Shadowman and all of Faith. I plan on eventually reading Q&W it's a matter of when not if.

I ended up really enjoying Faith. It's definitely a lighter book, like the you guys said, similar to the character herself. It isn't Dysart's Faith. I could only imagine what a Faith series by Dysart would be like. Oh well.

What it is is a fun little book of a fun character. If you've enjoyed everything else from VEI I'd say yes definitely check it out. The mini ties the most into the rest of VEI universe. I'd break the series down thusly:

Mini: Introduces the status quo, Faith's job and new identity. Has the Vine, Torque and Archer showing up. If I'd known it was about the Vine (yeah it's in the arc title, I'm a dummy) I would have jumped at it sooner. I love that certain background elements like the Vine, the Faraway, the Deadside, etc., run through many books and for me that's enough of a hook to check it out.

1-12: Starts with several 2-issue arcs that has each one introducing Faith to a new villain before they all decide to team up against her in the final arc. My only complaint is I felt like the art could have been stronger and wasn't really up to VEI's standards. It fits the character just fine but I can't help but feel like stronger artists would have elevated the series and made it easier for some VEI fans to accept. I am however in love with Marguerite Sauvage's art on the fantasy sequences. Really wish she would have done all the art for the whole series. It would have given it the gloss it needed, IMO.

Future Force: I feel that I liked this more than most here, it's a fun story that is a great call back to the end of the mini. I loved the art! Some of Valiant's best rotating through each issue. I wish the main series looked this good. It's still a Faith story and lines up with the rest of the series. It's not really the universe shattering event it was pushed as being. The cameos and whatnot are just window dressing. It's actually quite a small isolated tale.

Winter Wonderland Special: Again, I kinda feel like I'm the only one here that liked this. It's a cute little holiday fantasy tale. I love Francis Portela and his art is a nice callback to the mini and bookends the whole series.

So yeah, check it out. At least start with the mini, it's cheap and fun.
You've actually made me slightly more interested in picking it up now. Might just get Hollywood & the Vine Deluxe and see what I think.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by TheFerg714 »

SlyTrooper wrote: You've actually made me slightly more interested in picking it up now. Might just get Hollywood & the Vine Deluxe and see what I think.
It seemed like I was being a little negative (which I was), but I would actually recommend checking out at least the first mini. As annoyed as I have been with the latest issues, I was actually a legit fan for most of the run. It's a fun, harmless book. Check it out for sure!

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by tell »

Hollywood & Vine is a good book and worth reading, I'd check it out and then decide if you want to read the ongoing from there.
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by jmatt »

kinggirlfriend wrote:Winter Wonderland Special: Again, I kinda feel like I'm the only one here that liked this.
I liked it, too.

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by JonesyAZ »

Hi SlyTrooper,

Great question, and idea bringing up our favorite flying femme fatale, Zephyr aka Faith Herbert :) I don't know if it's because I'm nearing 40 and am lightening up in my years now being a father of a 5 year old or what...but lately my comic reading interests have been moving towards nostalgic and more light-hearted comics (mostly 50's-60's era Batman comics, Fourth World stories by Jack Kirby, old school silver age Superman tales, etc.). But the Faith comic, for most of it's run, was my most-anticipated book to read each month. I think it is that classic light-hearted vibe that it has, as well as Faith being such a wonderfully unique and easy-to-love character.

I have enjoyed the entire series and related one-shots that VEI has released so far. Quite honestly, I wish they kept it ongoing as an additional tent-pole book...to anchor into the "light side" of the Valiant universe while other books can continue dealing with more violent and/or darker fare. However, with the new Quantum and Woody book being released, that is taking up the missing spot just nicely (Q&W is another book that I've noticed divides the Val-Fandom as a "love it or hate it" book. I love it's sense of humor and old-school comics vibe as well).

Thanks for bringing this topic up today. It's brought this Valiant Fan/Podcaster out of the "lurker" darkness which I've needed to do for some time; woot!!!
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by kjjohanson »

jmatt wrote:
kinggirlfriend wrote:Winter Wonderland Special: Again, I kinda feel like I'm the only one here that liked this.
I liked it, too.
This is the only issue I haven't read yet. I had passed on the incentive variants when doing my pre-order from DCBS, because they were pricier than usual for those ratios. I imagine that's because there are fewer readers of Faith floppies than the other titles. I also imagine that the higher price from them may have resulted in fewer orders. (I passed and then picked it up when it was released at Midtown.) The 1:20 may end up being a book to watch later.

As far as the story goes, I agree that the book is a bit of a throwback. There's a lot that could have been expanded on in Future Force, but was set aside in order to get the whole story into a single arc.
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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by SlyTrooper »

JonesyAZ wrote:Hi SlyTrooper,

Great question, and idea bringing up our favorite flying femme fatale, Zephyr aka Faith Herbert :) I don't know if it's because I'm nearing 40 and am lightening up in my years now being a father of a 5 year old or what...but lately my comic reading interests have been moving towards nostalgic and more light-hearted comics (mostly 50's-60's era Batman comics, Fourth World stories by Jack Kirby, old school silver age Superman tales, etc.). But the Faith comic, for most of it's run, was my most-anticipated book to read each month. I think it is that classic light-hearted vibe that it has, as well as Faith being such a wonderfully unique and easy-to-love character.

I have enjoyed the entire series and related one-shots that VEI has released so far. Quite honestly, I wish they kept it ongoing as an additional tent-pole book...to anchor into the "light side" of the Valiant universe while other books can continue dealing with more violent and/or darker fare. However, with the new Quantum and Woody book being released, that is taking up the missing spot just nicely (Q&W is another book that I've noticed divides the Val-Fandom as a "love it or hate it" book. I love it's sense of humor and old-school comics vibe as well).

Thanks for bringing this topic up today. It's brought this Valiant Fan/Podcaster out of the "lurker" darkness which I've needed to do for some time; woot!!!
Glad to see I sparked your interest. Thank you for your opinion. I have decided to pick up Hollywood & the Vine Deluxe either when Divinity Deluxe or Secret Weapons Deluxe is released. If I like it, I'll buy the rest of the trades :)

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Re: Faith - Good or not?

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

Hey Sly,

I enjoyed Faith, both the Mini and the Ongoing, but then again, I liked what Rafer put out in A+A and Harbinger Renegade too.

Oddly, for all of the above mentioned books, my love for the books came directly from the writers themselves. I was able to pick their brains regarding those books, and to what she/he was going for. Perfect example, many people complained about Rafer's position with Pete in HR, but through a conversation I had with Rafer, I completely get what he did (Book #3, Pete gets slammed by another psyot into feeling what his addiction was like. this stopped Pete in his track, and he kind of lost his mojo and was hesitant through the rest of the books is just one of the things I've taken away from conversations with him. If you don't understand addiction, you could find it hard to understand it's influence).

I've picked Jody's brain regarding Faith, and to know Jody on some level is to understand Faith. Follow Jody on Twitter or Instagram, you'll soon see that Jody IS Faith! Rarely has a negative things to say (remove politics), super excited about geek things, may be one of the sweetest ladies I've had the joy to meet. I highly suggest you give her a follow on any/all forms of social media, I think you might see the same things I do.

When I read Faith, I think Jody. When I communicate with Jody, I think Faith.

Just a little perspective.
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