July Sales Woes

[TheFerg714]

So I don't pay too much attention to the intricate details of monthly sales, but I noticed some strange and sort of depressing things for the month of July. First of all, X-O's going strong, so that's good news. I'm not sure how that compares to other major VEI ongoings, but it looks pretty good from my vantage point.

Secret Weapons is very confusing to me... It says that Secret Weapons #1 sold 11k, while #2 sold 8k. Am I crazy, or did Secret Weapons #1 come out in June? If this is really the reprint's numbers, this is very good news, but it seems quite odd that a #1 would ever outsell a #2 in it's second month.

And finally, some titles just are not doing good. Renegade got a nice little boost from the marketing, but I really don't see #6 doing anywhere near those numbers. Faith and the Future Force #1 only sold 8k, which is really bad for a #1. It's really too bad, because Valiant was pushing Faith pretty hard, but it honestly looks like the mainstream comic community has completely and utterly forgotten about her. She started off so damn strong, but now she's consistently one of Valiant's lowest sellers, even with a flashy new #1. Bloodshot's Day Off (and similarly, the rest of the throwback one-shots) has unsurprisingly sold fairly poorly as well, and Brittania just keeps doing worse and worse, but the real kicker is Rapture. That thing started out with SO much hype at every comic store I went to. There were literal stacks of Rapture #1, but it looks like everyone has already stopped caring within just three issues.

So what story do these numbers tell, and what's the solution? While a few comics have received some underwhelming reviews, most tend to stand out above the rest of the industry as high-quality, well-received books, but clearly that's not enough. I'm not trying to be a negative nancy, I know the movies and webseries are coming, and I know Valiant is playing the long game here, but I guess I'm just a little worried. I love these books so much, but I legitimately haven't seen any real growth, as far as public perception and pure sales data, for the last four years since I started reading.

I apologize if this rant was pointless and this has already been discussed elsewhere.

[BugsySig]

I think there are three reasons for these patterns, which exist almost across the board at every publisher (baring a few of the top sellers):

1) The inflated orders for #1 issues due to over hype/PR from the publishers, incentive covers and returnability. This has also led to the constant renumbering and relaunching of titles, which IMHO will lead/has led to decreased consumer confidence in the sustainability of titles. It has also led to an increase in limited/miniseries being published.

2) An increase in trade waiting due to its cost effectiveness and the ability to get a full story out of today's decompressed storytelling in one sitting.

3) An increase in digital readership. No one releases these numbers, but one can only assume it is growing with unlimited subscriptions, humble bundles, etc. Again, it can be more cost effective, and can be combined quite successfully with trade waiting to allow a reader to stay up to date while eventually owning a paper copy.

[kinggirlfriend]

Maybe people are getting hip that some of these number ones aren't first issues per se but just new arcs? FAITH AND THE FUTURE FORCE is really the next Faith arc. RAPTURE is really the next Ninjak arc, similar to their push of BLOODSHOT USA, I don't really see them as "new jumping on points". Maybe store owners don't trust the sale ability of something that is essentially the last arc of a longer story and not the "first all new" issue they often claim to be, regardless of numbering.

[hawkeyeps]

Please all, and you will please none.

[BugsySig]

I really wonder if a publishing strategy where you released digital "monthlies" and then a printed TPB would be viable. For a title like Walking dead which does most of its sales via trades, I think it could. But could that also be the case with a small publisher? I see Vinnie DelSante on twitter basically begging people to order Stray #2 (Action Lab) so they can keep publishing, even after a kickstarter campaign, and wonder if it's worth publishing monthly for a book like that...or could you release digitally, make some money off that to put toward publishing cost, then sell a TPB? That's basically what Action Lab did for Molly Danger, but that still hasn't been able to put out a second book.

[grendeljd]

As a fellow with a very strong passion for the storytelling medium of comics, it's really depressing in general to think about the state of the modern comic industry. Its a shame that corporate comics push for & rely so heavily on too many marketing gimmicks to drive sales figures into respectable print runs (which themselves are but a shadow of 'normal' sales figures of the past - and I mean pre-90's explosion era, where a weak book would be cancelled if it was in the low 100,000 monthly range). That marketing trend is then kind of expected, and smaller indie publishers like Valiant, etc. feel the pressure to emulate the pattern to earn sales.

I know we're just in an ever-changing state of evolution, & the format of how comics are published is merely in a transitional stage, but its the overall downward trend in the loss of audience for comics that is the most discouraging to me. I know times are different & there is a lot of other media out there for audiences to contend with now. Comics are such a unique & amazing thing, I just hope they don't eventually die out or become a ridiculously niche hobby.

[grendeljd]

Does anyone have the comichron figures to post here?

[SuperMage]

I know we're just in an ever-changing state of evolution, & the format of how comics are published is merely in a transitional stage, but its the overall downward trend in the loss of audience for comics that is the most discouraging to me. I know times are different & there is a lot of other media out there for audiences to contend with now. Comics are such a unique & amazing thing, I just hope they don't eventually die out or become a ridiculously niche hobby.

Evil mustache twirling millenial here, just wanted to give my cents.

Comics in are no way becoming a niche, in my opinion. Previous posters are correct, the market is shifting to digital first, trades second.

Do you what company published the most popular comic of the last 5 years?

The answer is no one. The comic that had the most visible impact in pop culture was the independently published Web comic Homestuck. This is a comic that was published onine from 2009 to 2016, and has had no adaption's in other media. And yet during its height Homestuck's fan base numbered in the millions. Cosplayers, fanart, and all forms of fan media were ubiquitous in the early 2010s. Any millenial who was part of any "geek" subculture heard of Homestuck even if they had never read it.

Independent creators are beginning to publish comic on their own, and relying on patreon, and merchandise for profits. Companies like Comixology are expanding to streaming packages. Atomic Robo, and Empowered started as print comics, but they shifted to the Web/digital comics in recent years.

Comics aren't dying. They're just changing format, and distribution methods.

[jmatt]

Maybe people are getting hip that some of these number ones aren't first issues per se but just new arcs?

This.

[SuperMage]

Maybe people are getting hip that some of these number ones aren't first issues per se but just new arcs?

This.

I agree that this is likely a big factor. There's a sales ceiling for Valiant. People will come in higher numbers for the start of news ongoings. Ninja-K, Bloodshot Salvation, and Quantum and Woody! are all coming before the year ends. We should wait and see what tell sales are in January 2018 before we make big assumtpions. The only current monthly ongoing is X-O Manowar (2017). That probably played a big role in the sales for July.

[BugsySig]

I don't think the OP was spreading DOOM!!! but rather pointing out that these recent launches/jumping on points/etc. did not fare as well as one would think.

I will say, in addition to the items mentioned above, I believe there is a disconnect between many retailers and their customers. I don't frequent a comic shop regularly any more, but on the occasions when I am in there it surprises me what they don't carry at all or carry in minuscule numbers, sell out of, and still don't increase their orders for the next month.

Then there are dozens of copies of Marvel or DC books with terrible reviews sitting on the shelves which they feel obligated to order month in and month out.

Meanwhile, many of those books they don't carry or order limited supplies of, are the top sellers on ComiXology month in and month out.

Add to that the cheap prices at which you can order trades online, and there's plenty of reason why monthly sales figures are down across the board.

[agent_graves]

154 X-O Manowar #5 Valiant 13,278

179 Secret Weapons #1 Valiant 10,908*

218 Harbinger Renegade #5 Valiant 8,325

224 Secret Weapons 2 Valiant 7,910

225 Faith and the Future Force #1 Valiant 7,888

234 Bloodshots Day Off #1 Valiant 7,490

237 Britannia We Who #4 Valiant 7,407

242 Rapture #3 Valiant 7,090

*Re-orders/Pre-order Editions

Not counting the re-orders/pre-order editions for Secret Weapons #1, VEI had a 9.8K avg per book in July. Not to shabby...

[nycjadie]

Solid numbers compared to previous months. Love it.

[Sunlight on Snow]

154 X-O Manowar #5 Valiant 13,278

179 Secret Weapons #1 Valiant 10,908*

218 Harbinger Renegade #5 Valiant 8,325

224 Secret Weapons 2 Valiant 7,910

225 Faith and the Future Force #1 Valiant 7,888

234 Bloodshots Day Off #1 Valiant 7,490

237 Britannia We Who #4 Valiant 7,407

242 Rapture #3 Valiant 7,090

*Re-orders/Pre-order Editions

Not counting the re-orders/pre-order editions for Secret Weapons #1, VEI had a 9.8K avg per book in July. Not to shabby...

You still need to divide the total by 7 (not 6). Then the average is 8.4k per book.

Sorry, I was just wondering about your average. Looking at the individual sales numbers it just couldn't be so close to 10k.

8.3k for Harbinger Renegade #5 doesn't strike me as a very good number keeping in mind how much it was advertised.

[hawkeyeps]

8.3k for Harbinger Renegade #5 doesn't strike me as a very good number keeping in mind how much it was advertised.

A&A and Renegade also had huge marketing pushes with similar results, if the quality is not there the marketing is irrelevant.

Where were these giant marketing pushes when the books were actually good?

To this day there is not a scrap of Imperium merchandise to be found anywhere.

[jmatt]

Solid numbers compared to previous months. Love it.

Yeah. Everything over 7k? I'll take it.

[TheFerg714]

A&A and Renegade also had huge marketing pushes with similar results, if the quality is not there the marketing is irrelevant.

Where were these giant marketing pushes when the books were actually good?

To this day there is not a scrap of Imperium merchandise to be found anywhere.

While Imperium obviously deserved as much marketing as Valiant could give it, I don't think that's really fair. I'd say it got just about as big of a push as the rest of the Valiant Next titles. There was the prelude insert in every Valiant comic for a month (or two?), they put Doug Braithwaite on the first arc, and Divinity, the Vine aliens, Livewire, and HARD Corps showed up at different times too. I think the blame for Imperium's failures is on the comic book fan community. Literally every single Valiant fan I've ever talked to says that Imperium is one of, if not, the best series Valiant has ever done, and yet it ended up being one of the lowest selling books every month?

Plus, they've began to have little cameos recently in other books.

[BugsySig]

Just read that November will be the first month this century that Marvel will not release a #1 issue.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Just read that November will be the first month this century that Marvel will not release a #1 issue.

[TheeBaldMoose]

A&A and Renegade also had huge marketing pushes with similar results, if the quality is not there the marketing is irrelevant.

Where were these giant marketing pushes when the books were actually good?

To this day there is not a scrap of Imperium merchandise to be found anywhere.

While Imperium obviously deserved as much marketing as Valiant could give it, I don't think that's really fair. I'd say it got just about as big of a push as the rest of the Valiant Next titles. There was the prelude insert in every Valiant comic for a month (or two?), they put Doug Braithwaite on the first arc, and Divinity, the Vine aliens, Livewire, and HARD Corps showed up at different times too. I think the blame for Imperium's failures is on the comic book fan community. Literally every single Valiant fan I've ever talked to says that Imperium is one of, if not, the best series Valiant has ever done, and yet it ended up being one of the lowest selling books every month?

Plus, they've began to have little cameos recently in other books.

To piggy back on this, Imperium was one of the few books where knowledge of the past Valiant books was needed. You kind of needed to know who Harada was and it didn't make much sense to jump in without that knowledge. Sales probably tanked because only Valiant fans (and those of this specific area) were interested. Imagine it was hard to keep outside people interested, or invite new people to jump in.

I say this because when I first found Valiant, I was handed Imperium. I just couldn't latch into it, but other books were much easier to get into. Even Adventures of A&A was tough to just jump in, because you needed more information than the book offered. Maybe it was tougher because "I" needed more information than the book offered. In the end, I stuck with A&A because it was silly, and that was easier to get involved with.

[ShadowTuga]

I think maybe Faith is suffering from overexposure. I know I am tired of the character's adventures, but I'm not the demographic for it. But maybe others feel that she's not that interesting on her own, without the bleakness of Harbinger. I sort of feel like that, also. And 3 number 1s (mini, ongoing and now the FF) in a year or so, its kinda meh. Like others said, peeps are also tired of #1 issues when it is obvious that it is just another arc, not really a brand new book on its own.

These numbers are not THAT bad, seems like the normal sales for every month. Sad but true.

[Dallow Spicer1]

154 X-O Manowar #5 Valiant 13,278

179 Secret Weapons #1 Valiant 10,908*

218 Harbinger Renegade #5 Valiant 8,325

224 Secret Weapons 2 Valiant 7,910

225 Faith and the Future Force #1 Valiant 7,888

234 Bloodshots Day Off #1 Valiant 7,490

237 Britannia We Who #4 Valiant 7,407

242 Rapture #3 Valiant 7,090

*Re-orders/Pre-order Editions

Not counting the re-orders/pre-order editions for Secret Weapons #1, VEI had a 9.8K avg per book in July. Not to shabby...

For XO and Secret Weapons I'm not sure the pre order editions are included in the numbers? I know XO #1 was under reported as they didn't include 30k of the pre order edition

[grendeljd]

I know we're just in an ever-changing state of evolution, & the format of how comics are published is merely in a transitional stage, but its the overall downward trend in the loss of audience for comics that is the most discouraging to me. I know times are different & there is a lot of other media out there for audiences to contend with now. Comics are such a unique & amazing thing, I just hope they don't eventually die out or become a ridiculously niche hobby.

Evil mustache twirling millenial here, just wanted to give my cents.

Comics in are no way becoming a niche, in my opinion. Previous posters are correct, the market is shifting to digital first, trades second.

Do you what company published the most popular comic of the last 5 years?

The answer is no one. The comic that had the most visible impact in pop culture was the independently published Web comic Homestuck. This is a comic that was published onine from 2009 to 2016, and has had no adaption's in other media. And yet during its height Homestuck's fan base numbered in the millions. Cosplayers, fanart, and all forms of fan media were ubiquitous in the early 2010s. Any millenial who was part of any "geek" subculture heard of Homestuck even if they had never read it.

Independent creators are beginning to publish comic on their own, and relying on patreon, and merchandise for profits. Companies like Comixology are expanding to streaming packages. Atomic Robo, and Empowered started as print comics, but they shifted to the Web/digital comics in recent years.

Comics aren't dying. They're just changing format, and distribution methods.

Good point about web comics - that's a specific strain of the medium I haven't delved into too deeply, but it's certainly a legitimate evolution of the medium.

I probably sounded a lot more like a crusty old man than I meant to in my OP. I was already feeling a little melancholic about the comics industry last week prior to this post. I had spent a night out with some old friends who are trying to carve their own path in the profession, and there were some bleak discussions.

One friend mentioned doing signings in stores that weren't carrying shelf copies of major Marvel titles anymore because they couldn't sell them (and had very small pull list orders), which is just crazy to me. Granted, that may be a problem with a particular store's lack of customer service or salesmanship rather than dead demand for the comics, but it doesn't seem right.

I'm an adaptable guy, I buy a mix of monthly issues, tpb's & digital comics depending on the book. I have an old school preference for individual printed issues, but I'm not strictly beholden to that preference.

[mateo107]

the total sales for Secret Weapons #1 (21,938 + 10,908) is higher than the 2012 Harbinger #1 sales (32,111).

July's sales were higher than June's, Harbinger and Faith both had increases from the previous issue. Looks like a good month to me.

[Thegreatmagnet]

Agreed that these numbers generally don't look that bad in the larger context. When books drop down to the 5K range (or less) that's when it's time to get concerned. That's a clear indication that the hardcore fans are abandoning a given title (Wrath, Gen Zero, A+A) and those books get cancelled soon thereafter.

I am concerned that Harbinger Renegade 5 only sold 8,300 copies given the massive promotion and hype for that issue, and all the variants, including a 1 in 125. I think the sales for that book could plummet again over the next few months, which is not the way to set up their next big event. If those numbers get much lower over the next 3 issues, I really think they should switch out the creative team.

I'm also interested about the point on the Faith #1 being so low (relatively speaking). My take is that they were so monomanaical about hyping Harby 5 that they really did nothing to promote the Faith book that also launched in July. I can't really remember them ever going out to cons this spring and promoting Faith. It was all Massacre all the time. Can't blame people for not buying a book that was barely promoted...