When will Valiant be Considered #3?

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When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by TheFerg714 »

So, weirdly, there has two articles, from different sites, that were about essentially the same thing:

The 10 Most Prominent Non-DC/MARVEL Superhero Universes of All Time
15 Superhero Universes That Make DC And Marvel Look Basic

First I was simply annoyed that my favorite publisher (that makes the best superhero books in the industry, hands down) wasn't seen as a clear winner in the "best/biggest superhero universe outside of Marvel/DC" debate. But then I got even more frustrated when I realized that a lot of people see Valiant as direct competition to all of these other smaller universes. I mean, for the love of god, Archie's Dark Circle imprint was rated higher than Valiant in the CBR list.

So now I'm just wondering what you guys think of this. I find it utterly ridiculous that, in 2017, Valiant can be considered on the same level as these other options. Will Valiant ever truly be seen as the third biggest universe amongst the wider comic fandom? I don't expect that it will ever catch up with the big two, but could "the big three" ever become common vernacular?

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by OhioValiantNut »

It will take a few successful films to raise awareness of Valiant's deep history. With the Disney/Netflix moves recently, things are going to get super interesting ... Valiant must get into the film game in order to make a deeper impact.
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by jxm640 »

OhioValiantNut wrote:It will take a few successful films to raise awareness of Valiant's deep history. With the Disney/Netflix moves recently, things are going to get super interesting ... Valiant must get into the film game in order to make a deeper impact.
Do you mean Disney pulling its films from Netflix?

I think it would have been an interesting move, although Netflix are USD 2bn in debt at the moment, so it could be a tactical move.

In answering the OP. It will take a while. To get Valiant to third place, I agree with Ohio. A good set of films would be good, but the success of Ninjak Vs. will be able to get an influx of youtube demo Valiant readers.

Honestly, I give the brand another ten years to be recognised as the third big universe.
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by greg »

Well, there's an easy check for most "reporters" on this and it's to check the market share for comic book publishers.
Marvel and DC are at the top, then you have non-universe publishers... so Valiant is down at the 1% market share position.

It's hard to "award" the "third place universe" to the company that comes in about 9th or 10th overall.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Aztek »

I think it comes down to sales. According to Comichron in June, Valiant's best seller (Secret Weapons #1) sold only 21,938 copies and came in 125th in total sales. While Valiant makes a great product, it needs to reflect in sales to be taken seriously.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by greg »

Somewhere around the board is a post I made years ago that Marvel and DC are like Ketchup and Mustard.

Valiant is shooting for the Sriracha market... a "spicy alternative" to the basic universes, but probably not going to knock either out of their spots... ever.
Whether something like Sriracha is ever seen as the "third great condiment" is hard to say, since there are good arguments to be made for mayo, soy sauce, bbq, ranch, etc. :hm:

That's it... I've decided I'm going to the Mediterranean place for lunch. :lol:

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

greg wrote:Somewhere around the board is a post I made years ago that Marvel and DC are like Ketchup and Mustard.

Valiant is shooting for the Sriracha market... a "spicy alternative" to the basic universes, but probably not going to knock either out of their spots... ever.
Whether something like Sriracha is ever seen as the "third great condiment" is hard to say, since there are good arguments to be made for mayo, soy sauce, bbq, ranch, etc. :hm:

That's it... I've decided I'm going to the Mediterranean place for lunch. :lol:
Here ya go Greg...

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... a#p1049207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enjoy that Mediterranean food!
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by greg »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
greg wrote:Somewhere around the board is a post I made years ago that Marvel and DC are like Ketchup and Mustard.

Valiant is shooting for the Sriracha market... a "spicy alternative" to the basic universes, but probably not going to knock either out of their spots... ever.
Whether something like Sriracha is ever seen as the "third great condiment" is hard to say, since there are good arguments to be made for mayo, soy sauce, bbq, ranch, etc. :hm:

That's it... I've decided I'm going to the Mediterranean place for lunch. :lol:
Here ya go Greg...

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... a#p1049207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enjoy that Mediterranean food!
I was thinking of my 2014 post (and follow-up explanation posts in that thread): :thumb:
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

greg wrote:Somewhere around the board is a post I made years ago that Marvel and DC are like Ketchup and Mustard.

Valiant is shooting for the Sriracha market... a "spicy alternative" to the basic universes, but probably not going to knock either out of their spots... ever.
Whether something like Sriracha is ever seen as the "third great condiment" is hard to say, since there are good arguments to be made for mayo, soy sauce, bbq, ranch, etc. :hm:

That's it... I've decided I'm going to the Mediterranean place for lunch. :lol:
Don't you guys have brown sauce?!?! :o You don't know what you're missing, HP brown sauce its has to be. In the UK it's probably...

1) Brown sauce
2) Red sauce i.e. Ketchup


Way down at 3) mustard

Never heard of sketchywatchy sauce so I can't give it a number! :lol:

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by greg »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
greg wrote:Somewhere around the board is a post I made years ago that Marvel and DC are like Ketchup and Mustard.

Valiant is shooting for the Sriracha market... a "spicy alternative" to the basic universes, but probably not going to knock either out of their spots... ever.
Whether something like Sriracha is ever seen as the "third great condiment" is hard to say, since there are good arguments to be made for mayo, soy sauce, bbq, ranch, etc. :hm:

That's it... I've decided I'm going to the Mediterranean place for lunch. :lol:
Don't you guys have brown sauce?!?! :o You don't know what you're missing, HP brown sauce its has to be. In the UK it's probably...

1) Brown sauce
2) Red sauce i.e. Ketchup


Way down at 3) mustard

Never heard of sketchywatchy sauce so I can't give it a number! :lol:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1767333/h ... er-tables/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Annual Sales
HP Brown sauce... $50,000,000
Sriracha... $85,000,000

I guarantee that the HP Brown Sauce people have heard of sketchywatchy... it's kicking their butts. :lol:

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Chiclo »

Over here, we call brown sauce "Arby's Sauce".

It is only offered at a fast food restaurant called Arby's.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Phoenix8008 »

Maybe after the films boost sales up some, they can viably be recognized as #3. For myself, I decided awhile ago that I'll know Valiant has 'made it' when I see a t-shirt with a Valiant character on sale at Wal-Mart. Maybe after some of the movies come out, I hope.
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by jmatt »

Yeah, good movies will open a lot of eyes and raise public awareness of the brand. :hope:

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

greg wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
greg wrote:Somewhere around the board is a post I made years ago that Marvel and DC are like Ketchup and Mustard.

Valiant is shooting for the Sriracha market... a "spicy alternative" to the basic universes, but probably not going to knock either out of their spots... ever.
Whether something like Sriracha is ever seen as the "third great condiment" is hard to say, since there are good arguments to be made for mayo, soy sauce, bbq, ranch, etc. :hm:

That's it... I've decided I'm going to the Mediterranean place for lunch. :lol:
Don't you guys have brown sauce?!?! :o You don't know what you're missing, HP brown sauce its has to be. In the UK it's probably...

1) Brown sauce
2) Red sauce i.e. Ketchup


Way down at 3) mustard

Never heard of sketchywatchy sauce so I can't give it a number! :lol:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1767333/h ... er-tables/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Annual Sales
HP Brown sauce... $50,000,000
Sriracha... $85,000,000

I guarantee that the HP Brown Sauce people have heard of sketchywatchy... it's kicking their butts. :lol:
:funnypost:

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by paradise »

I don't think Valiant cares at this point about being #3. That would involve publishing 40-50 titles per month, like #1 and #2 do, and then doing all types of gimmicks, way more distasteful than Dino & Co. are willing to do, which is what Marvel is doing right now to stay at #1.

I think Valiant's goals are different. They want to put out great products, in limited quantities, to create interest in other media and THEN ride the success of those media projects to bigger numbers and more titles. This is not coming from any data or knowledge, but is based on what I am seeing.
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by greg »

paradise wrote:I don't think Valiant cares at this point about being #3. That would involve publishing 40-50 titles per month, like #1 and #2 do, and then doing all types of gimmicks, way more distasteful than Dino & Co. are willing to do, which is what Marvel is doing right now to stay at #1.

I think Valiant's goals are different. They want to put out great products, in limited quantities, to create interest in other media and THEN ride the success of those media projects to bigger numbers and more titles. This is not coming from any data or knowledge, but is based on what I am seeing.
That's a really good point. There are publishers who are putting out 20 to 30 books a month that aren't getting the kinds of quality and sales that Valiant gets with 6 to 9 books.

We've used the Ketchup and Mustard analogy, but it's probably also fair to say that Marvel and DC are like McDonald's and Burger King... and Valiant is purposefully a small fine steakhouse chain.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by jmatt »

greg wrote:
paradise wrote:I don't think Valiant cares at this point about being #3. That would involve publishing 40-50 titles per month, like #1 and #2 do, and then doing all types of gimmicks, way more distasteful than Dino & Co. are willing to do, which is what Marvel is doing right now to stay at #1.

I think Valiant's goals are different. They want to put out great products, in limited quantities, to create interest in other media and THEN ride the success of those media projects to bigger numbers and more titles. This is not coming from any data or knowledge, but is based on what I am seeing.
That's a really good point. There are publishers who are putting out 20 to 30 books a month that aren't getting the kinds of quality and sales that Valiant gets with 6 to 9 books.
I'll second that. I don't need 30 issues a month to feel like it's competing with the Big 2. Heck, I don't even want that many titles, ever.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by 777Peralta »

Venom covers for every issue and every other played out
Wack variant can stay at the #1 and #2.

#1 and #2 just makes me think of the Bono episode of South Park "More Crap" lol

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by BugsySig »

Those CBR top 10 lists are always terrible and often just reposted when there's a new piece of related news (like the Netflix Millarworld purchase) so they haven't been updated. Valiant's entry still included Turok for *SQUEE*'s sake!

I also hate when people continue to include universes like Wildstorm, Fawcet and Charlton when they've been owned for DECADES by D.C.! And they've appeared in that universe. Not to mention other dead/defunct universes that shouldn't even be included like CGW or Ultraverse, or non-shared universes like Millarworld.

Basically there's Marvel, DC, Valiant, Hellboy/BPRD, and Top Cow. That's the top 5 SHARED universes right now. I'm glad Red Circle is returning, and I hope Catalyst Prime succeeds, but I don't think anyone else matches those 5 (ok, maybe IDW's Habroverse, but that's still in infant stages right now).
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

BugsySig wrote:Basically there's Marvel, DC, Valiant, Hellboy/BPRD, and Top Cow. That's the top 5 SHARED universes right now.
Top Cow is far from being one shared universe.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by BugsySig »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Basically there's Marvel, DC, Valiant, Hellboy/BPRD, and Top Cow. That's the top 5 SHARED universes right now.
Top Cow is far from being one shared universe.
True, they offer things beyond their Witchblade/Darkness/Cyberforce/Aphrodite IX shared Universe, but that's like saying Dark Horse is far from being one shared universe when referring to the Mignola-verse. Or Image with their shared universe (which is spotty at best, but also sort of includes Top Cow). Basically Top Cow just needs a better name for it.
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

BugsySig wrote:
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Basically there's Marvel, DC, Valiant, Hellboy/BPRD, and Top Cow. That's the top 5 SHARED universes right now.
Top Cow is far from being one shared universe.
True, they offer things beyond their Witchblade/Darkness/Cyberforce/Aphrodite IX shared Universe, but that's like saying Dark Horse is far from being one shared universe when referring to the Mignola-verse. Or Image with their shared universe (which is spotty at best, but also sort of includes Top Cow). Basically Top Cow just needs a better name for it.
Sorry, I don't consider this top 5 no matter how they'd call it. Is it even active anymore?

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by BugsySig »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
BugsySig wrote:
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Basically there's Marvel, DC, Valiant, Hellboy/BPRD, and Top Cow. That's the top 5 SHARED universes right now.
Top Cow is far from being one shared universe.
True, they offer things beyond their Witchblade/Darkness/Cyberforce/Aphrodite IX shared Universe, but that's like saying Dark Horse is far from being one shared universe when referring to the Mignola-verse. Or Image with their shared universe (which is spotty at best, but also sort of includes Top Cow). Basically Top Cow just needs a better name for it.
Sorry, I don't consider this top 5 no matter how they'd call it. Is it even active anymore?
Pretty sure. Though I will say IDW's Hasbroverse is going pretty strong right now and could be top 5.

Still, there's just no competition for #3 in terms of universes right now. If Archie ever got serious about Red Circle, that would be interesting. If anyone ever got Atlas up and running again, there's practically a blank slate there to build on. Catalyst Prime still has to prove it can last. Hellboy is just Mignola's creations. Hasbro is still a toy line and not original to comics. There's nothing close to VEI.
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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by TheFerg714 »

BugsySig wrote:Pretty sure. Though I will say IDW's Hasbroverse is going pretty strong right now and could be top 5.
Nah, dude I'm a fairweather fan of Top Cow's universe, and that s***'s been dead for a couple years now. It's been a few years now that Aphrodite IX, Artifacts, The Darkness, and even Witchblade have seen a bookshelf. The latest books (as far as I'm aware) were Switch (spiritual successor/reimagining of Witchblade, by Stjepan Sejic), which only lasted four issues, and was canceled after huge delays in 2016, IXth Generation (2016), and a Magdalena mini-series that came out this year. It seems like Top Cow is much more focused on Matt Hawkins creations right now. I think there was even a de facto crossover recently that brought together a few of his projects. It's too bad really, I haven't read much, but from what I've seen Top Cow's universe is really weird and awesome. I'd love to see a big reboot of the core franchises some day.
Still, there's just no competition for #3 in terms of universes right now. If Archie ever got serious about Red Circle, that would be interesting. If anyone ever got Atlas up and running again, there's practically a blank slate there to build on. Catalyst Prime still has to prove it can last. Hellboy is just Mignola's creations. Hasbro is still a toy line and not original to comics. There's nothing close to VEI.
And this is really all I'm trying to say. I just wish comic fans would at least see and understand that there isn't any competition to Valiant. They're the only company that's doing it's own universe. Dark Horse, Archie, and Dynamite have tried and failed (relatively, in Dynamite's case), and Valiant's still the only one left standing. Although Mignola has no more than 2 comics a month coming out, I think that and IDW's Hasbro line are probably 4th and 5th place right now. Archie's new Red Circle book is going to be with filled with huge delays and will inevitably be canceled within a year. Catalyst Prime is the only one that could measure up to Valiant, but seeing as I have a limited comics budget, I can't seem to get myself to care about a universe that's main focus is 'diversity,' when Valiant and DC are so deserving of my money already.

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Re: When will Valiant be Considered #3?

Post by BugsySig »

Guess I'm out of the loop on Top Cow. Totally agree with everything else above.
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