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whetteon
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Post by whetteon »

I see alot of comic articles saying up front that any modern books graded less then 9.6 (even as 90 variants) are a waste of time and money. Hell, I just read an article yesterday that just came out and said, "Anything less then 9.8 for a modern book will be money you won't recuperate". Plus many board members have told me very similar stories. So there is a mentality that 9.2's are inferior products. Of course I think 9.2's are the most underrated books out in the market right now followed closely by 8.5's but that’s just my silly opinion. (pssst, buying all Bronze Age keys in 9.2)
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Post by GGSAE »

For someone ignorant about the grading of CGC, can someone give me the link for this place...or quickly fill me in on what grades are equivalent to the old-fashioned letter grades...thanks

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Post by greg »

GGSAE wrote:For someone ignorant about the grading of CGC, can someone give me the link for this place...or quickly fill me in on what grades are equivalent to the old-fashioned letter grades...thanks
http://www.cgccomics.com/grading/

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

all i know is that i've got a book i was willing to pay $125 bucks to get for $75...notice that the seller had 2 copies...one was 9.2, one was 9.4. the 9.4 went for almost DOUBLE what my 9.2 closed at...that's quite a price bump for .2 percentage points.

i get the service that cgc provides, and i do believe it's a good and needed service. it's the prices that WE as collectors attach to those grades that makes me shake my head.

i'll buy "low" grade cgc books for below guide all day long because i can always unslab them and probably make money on them. i've been able to fill in holes from my "needs" list by shopping the lower grade cgc's.
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Post by DawgPhan »

cinlach@aol.com wrote:all i know is that i've got a book i was willing to pay $125 bucks to get for $75...notice that the seller had 2 copies...one was 9.2, one was 9.4. the 9.4 went for almost DOUBLE what my 9.2 closed at...that's quite a price bump for .2 percentage points.

i get the service that cgc provides, and i do believe it's a good and needed service. it's the prices that WE as collectors attach to those grades that makes me shake my head.

i'll buy "low" grade cgc books for below guide all day long because i can always unslab them and probably make money on them. i've been able to fill in holes from my "needs" list by shopping the lower grade cgc's.
I could be worng here, but unless you are discolsing everything about the book when you "unslab and make money" I might not agree with your practices...Unslabing a 9.2 and calling it NM+ isnt soemthing that I would like to hear about. :thumb:

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

oh no...i wouldn't do that. seriously, i know that's unethical as hell.

but i could unslab the book, grade it by overstreet (vf+, vf, vf-) and recoup the money i spent and maybe a little more. would i make enough money to make it worth the time and effort to gather up all the lower grade cgc's i could find? probably not, so i don't do that stuff...i just grab those lower grade cgc's for me...knowing that if worse comes to pass, i can always unload them and maybe get close to my money back depending on the market at that point.

i would never buy a 9.2, unslab it and sell it as nm...no way. anyone who would is definately shady.

most of the books i sell on ebay don't have any kind of grade attached to them. the books are all in tight shape, but when i list them i don't say "these books are X grade." and virtually no one asks. the only books that i grade when i sell them are the occasional silver age books i put up...but i haven't put any of those up in a long, long time.

but i can see your concern dawg...rest assured,i would NEVER do that. no offense taken, so no worries there.
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Post by greg »

If a CGC 9.2 was unslabbed, it should be sold as a NM-. (Near Mint minus)

Considering the book a VF+ would actually be a disservice to yourself.

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

interesting...i am soooo out of the loop when it comes to cgc...i just know good deals when i see them. so my advice is to keep your eyes out and don't automatically assume you can't get a really sweet cgc'ed book for a good price...

if it can happen to me...lol
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Post by greg »

I definitely agree. There are some good deals on some sweet books
that basically give you the slab for "free". If you're ok with a "low grade"
like 9.2 (near mint minus) or even 9.4 (near mint), then you can definitely
pick up some quality books for cheap.
(...and since when has near mint been low grade? :wink: )

I bought a CGC 9.4 the other day of Rai #3 (centered)
and once I had it in my hands, I couldn't find any major flaws.
(Obviously, a 9.4 is "near mint", so there should be any major flaws,
but what I'm saying is... this 9.4 could have been a 9.6 or a 9.8 if you ask me.)
I think I paid less than the cost of the book and the slab.

Here's the conversion of the number grade to the descriptive grade.
http://www.cgccomics.com/grading/

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

i've been meaning to ask...what is the "centered" notation i see on rai #3 sometimes? i'm ashamed to say i have no idea what that means...
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Post by greg »

cinlach@aol.com wrote:i've been meaning to ask...what is the "centered" notation i see on rai #3 sometimes? i'm ashamed to say i have no idea what that means...
No problem, that's what I'm here for.

By every account, most copies of Rai #3 are "mis-cut" with relation
to the top of the front cover. Instead of showing some space
above the Valiant logo and the Rai box, most copies go right to
the top edge with those boxes. However, a few copies (maybe 10%-20%)
are "well-centered" meaning that they have 'extra space' above
the Valiant and Rai logos (which shows blue sky and the tail of the 'dragon').

So, it's actually 'rarer' to find a copy that is cut correctly... that is, "well-centered"
since most copies (80%-90%) are miscut.

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/images/rai3top.jpg

Generally, if you can see any "blue sky" and "the tail" of the dragon
above the RAI logo, you've got a well-centered copy.

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

awesome...now i gotta go home and check mine...lol

thanks for the info, great and mighty valiant guru!
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Post by 400yrs »

DawgPhan wrote:
cinlach@aol.com wrote:all i know is that i've got a book i was willing to pay $125 bucks to get for $75...notice that the seller had 2 copies...one was 9.2, one was 9.4. the 9.4 went for almost DOUBLE what my 9.2 closed at...that's quite a price bump for .2 percentage points.

i get the service that cgc provides, and i do believe it's a good and needed service. it's the prices that WE as collectors attach to those grades that makes me shake my head.

i'll buy "low" grade cgc books for below guide all day long because i can always unslab them and probably make money on them. i've been able to fill in holes from my "needs" list by shopping the lower grade cgc's.
I could be worng here, but unless you are discolsing everything about the book when you "unslab and make money" I might not agree with your practices...Unslabing a 9.2 and calling it NM+ isnt soemthing that I would like to hear about. :thumb:
I agree with Dawg. Taking the book out of the slab and not telling people that it was graded at a 9.2 is shady business. I'd stay away from sellers if I know they did this. :x Might as well leave it in the slab.

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

point taken...it was a backup plan anyway...i thought dawgs objection was taking an uslabbed book and trying to pass it off as nm...which i would never do...although if what greg is saying is accurate about 9.2 being a nm book then i'm not sure where the "shady-ness" comes in if i resell it unslabbed.

i'm still not grasping the whole cgc thing...if i have a $30 nm book by overstreet and i get it slabbed at 9.8 it suddenly sells for $400...but if i have a $30 nm- book by overstreet and get it slabbed at 9.2 it's sells for $15. i just don't see the pattern there.

but let me stress that i bought this book for MY collection and since i have a chaos effect alpha already there's no need for me to pop this one open...i'm perfectly content to let it stay nice and snug in it's fancy plastic holder.

i really value the input you guys are giving me, that last thing i want to do is place the seed of doubt in your minds about my ethics.
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Post by DawgPhan »

I think that the problem would be with the lack of full disclosure...you know something about the book that you are not telling people...I think that there in liews the problem. Not you are hiding things or misrepresenting them, just that their is not full disclosure..Now if you really thought that the book should be graded higher and sold it like that, I dont see anything wrong with that...as long as everything that you know about the book is on the table. :thumb:

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

i can see your point dawg...thanks for all the input...i want to remain a viable member in everyone's eyes.

my grandfather taught me something that i'll carry for the rest of my days...the only thing in life a man truly owns is his name and his reputation, and those are things you need to take care of.

that's all i want to do...that's why i appreciate all the advice you guys have given.
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Post by 400yrs »

cinlach@aol.com wrote:i thought dawgs objection was taking an uslabbed book and trying to pass it off as nm...which i would never do...although if what greg is saying is accurate about 9.2 being a nm book then i'm not sure where the "shady-ness" comes in if i resell it unslabbed.
NM- (near mint minus) :thumb:

Like Dawg says, the problem is lack of disclosure. People should know about this type of thing when it comes to the book's history. If you have a book slabbed at NM- and you opened the slab and sold it as NM-, I have no doubt that the person who bought it would be happy with the condition description. But......

Someone before said something about gambling with the grade of a raw book. It happens big time with raw Harby pinks. If everyone who owned books in the 9.0 - 9.4 range popped them out of the slabs and sold them as "NM range" books, those who bought the books hoping they would grade a 9.6 or 9.8 may re-send them in for slabbing - costing extra money when it's almost sure to come back with the same grade that you had it as a slabbed book. Lack of disclosure.

I'm sure it happens ALOT. Someone gets a grade they don't like and they pop it out and sell it for higher. I will NEVER do that, because I'd hope it was not done to me. Things like that can ruin an industry over time. This may be the flaw many have been looking for regarding CGC. Full disclosure is necessary - whether it be with slabbing or with restoration - or the hobby suffers.

Doesn't CGC mark each graded book with something so they can identify it if it needs re-holdering? Maybe they should let the submitters know if raw book has been slabbed before and what it graded the first time around.
cinlach@aol.com wrote:i'm still not grasping the whole cgc thing...if i have a $30 nm book by overstreet and i get it slabbed at 9.8 it suddenly sells for $400...but if i have a $30 nm- book by overstreet and get it slabbed at 9.2 it's sells for $15. i just don't see the pattern there.
Depends on a lot of things - Age, grade, demand, rarity in high grade, etc. Watch the market for graded books and you'll quickly figure out what is a good buy and what is not. Keep in mind that modern books are VERY common in high grade. In fact, high grades are the norm as opposed to a rarity. :thumb:

cinlach@aol.com wrote:i really value the input you guys are giving me, that last thing i want to do is place the seed of doubt in your minds about my ethics.
:thumb: Just a matter of learning about grading, that's all. No questioning of your ethics. :thumb:

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

somedays it just pays to be me...after asking greg about the centered rai #3, i come home and check my books and lo...i have a centered rai #3.

damn it feels good to be a gangsta...
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Post by whetteon »

cinlach@aol.com wrote:somedays it just pays to be me...after asking greg about the centered rai #3, i come home and check my books and lo...i have a centered rai #3.

damn it feels good to be a gangsta...
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Post by jedimarley »

whetteon wrote:
cinlach@aol.com wrote:somedays it just pays to be me...after asking greg about the centered rai #3, i come home and check my books and lo...i have a centered rai #3.

damn it feels good to be a gangsta...
:applause: :sumo:
On top of his CEAR,
We Have to hear about his centered rai #3.
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Post by greg »

400yrs wrote:Doesn't CGC mark each graded book with something so they can identify it if it needs re-holdering?
Nope. CGC does not "mark" the books in any way.
When a book needs re-holdering, they can determine whether
the sealed inner container has been opened or not.
If not, then they can re-holder without re-grading.
If it has been opened, the book must be re-graded.

In fact, there are a few who have bought a book,
opened it... re-submitted it, and gotten a different grade.
(Sometimes, a HIGHER grade.)

That's to be expected, though, since you've got a company
where three people give an opinion about a grade,
and a final grade is assigned. Rinse and repeat 500,000 times.
(Yep, that's 500,000+ books that have been slabbed to date.)

This is one reason that I believe that prices will eventually level out
when you're only talking about a .2 difference in grade.
Whether 9.8 prices will drop closer to 9.6,
or 9.6 prices might rise closer to 9.8, or "meet in the middle"...
it seems like 9.6 would be the "deal" in today's market.

What's a 9.6 on one day could be a 9.8 on another day.
That's hardly a reason to pay multiples for a 9.8 vs. a 9.6 of the same book.

It's still a gamble, though, because what's a 9.6 one day might be a 9.4 another day. :wink:

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Post by cinlach@aol.com »

one of the things i find kind of ironic about cgc is that the whole purpose of their business is to take the "subjectivity" out of grading and yet i hear over and over how things can be submitted and get one grade and then get resubmitted and receive another grade.

i think there will also be subjectivity in grading...otherwise what else would be fanboys argue about? lol

i've never been against the service cgc provides...only the values the collector market attaches to it. but i can understand the thought process to a point...if i had a detective comics #27 that had been graded by overstreet as a nm+ book then i might be tempted to go "i know the near mint value of this book is X...but if you want this one, it'll cost you this much. if you can find a copy of this book, in this shape for less... then god bless you...but if you don't want to travel all over the country to find one and want to buy this one it's this much period." now that scenario doesn't even take the cgc quotient into the equation. having a professional, reputable grading services' stamp of approval can be a big thing.

a premium book in a premium grade can demand a higher price then "book value"...it's the spawn #1's selling for $200 that i don't understand.

but as we've all noted, there ARE deals to be found...if you're patient and careful you can find some really great books...they might not be gem mint...but they're nice just the same.

boy, we derailed the hell outta this sucker didn't we...lol
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Post by DawgPhan »

The Spawn #1's are probably 10.0's...those books are perfect...You pay for that perfectness...Remember Zeph's analogy about pennies...a regular penny is worth $.01, but a perfect penny, a penny with no flaws at 10x magnification, is worth, and I could be wrong and I am sure that Zeph will correct me, $500. That is a brand new 2005 penny worth $500 right now, because of its perfectness... :thumb:

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Post by DawgPhan »

Oh yeah and remember that OS doesnt have a guide for books over 9.2 so anything about that is really up to the market. :thumb:

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Post by ZephyrWasHOT!! »

cinlach@aol.com wrote:thats a big one off my "needs" list...it's all downhill from here folks.

i'm surprised it went that cheap...i mean i know that 9.2 isn't a "high" grade but it's certainly not bad either...i could unslab this book and get at least what i paid for it...probably more.

but we'll be having none of that my pretties...this will be tucked safely away.

<maniacal laughter>
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