What's the first appearance of Q&W or the preferred book?

[nycjadie]

Retailer Review - Approx. February 1997 - Print run 5000

#1 Regular Cover - June 1997 - Print run 8500

#1 Painted Cover - June 1997 - Print run 6000

#1 Dynamic Forces - ? - Print run 250 (or less)

All with the caveat that these are funny numbers.

Personally, I think that the Retailer Review is the book to have, followed by the regular cover. Why the regular cover? That cover depicts the heroes as they look in all the books. The painted cover looks a bit too realistic for many fans, in my opinion.

I view the Dynamic Forces version as an aftermarket nice to have. I don't have one, so if anyone is selling....

Full disclosure, I have a 9.8 of the retailer review, and a 9.6 of the #1 cover. I don't have a graded copy of the painted cover.

[greg]

I think it has to be Quantum & Woody #1, both the regular edition and the painted variant.

The Previews/Reviews are exactly that... previews. They're marketing books, hoping you'll buy "the real thing".
It's really hard for me to make something "the real thing" when the purpose was to announce and sell "the real thing".

Including Quantum & Woody #1 Retailer Review, there is probably a preview in Valiant Heroes Special Preview Edition (stand-alone)... possibly the earliest preview.
I'm also wondering about the date of the Acclaim Reader.

At any rate, those all are advertisements which hope that you'll buy "the real thing"... their first appearance in the #1 issue, which comes in two flavors.

I agree with you on the limited 250 signed copies with certificates. Those are after-market creations, not official Valiant/Acclaim products.
Anyone could (and did) do those all the time in the 1990s. They're definitely tough to find, and I don't doubt they'd be expensive. But they aren't official.
Only the Valiant Validated Signature Series books were "the real thing", created and sold by Valiant. Everything else like it was created and sold by "not Valiant".

[bobby97801]

I agree with greg.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Any thoughts on the Quantum and Woody omnibus from that time? I just saw one, debating on weather to get it. Just don't know where it ranks, or how high the print run was

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[bobby97801]

Any thoughts on the Quantum and Woody omnibus from that time? I just saw one, debating on weather to get it. Just don't know where it ranks, or how high the print run was

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

There was 3 TPBs for back then. The omnibus is new.

[Elveen]

I agree with greg.

Yes. Me to.

It will be the regular #1 and the painted.

[nycjadie]

I gotta disagree with you guys on this one. The Retailer Review is the first time the full story was printed. It wasn't just a sneak peak, but a fully printed story. It might not be colored. It might not even be fully inked. However, the first fully published Q&W story is in the Retailer Review.

I don't think it matters if the book was free or cost money, offered as a promo or meant for resale. It's not like the Malibu Sun/Spawn appearance, or the Hulk 181/182 cameo. This also isn't like the Absolute Vertigo/Preacher first appearance, as that isn't the full story. Just a few pages. Overstreet notes the preview and 1st issue as the first appearance

[greg]

I'm not sure how serious I can take your comments when you say Hulk 181/182 is a comparison.

Hulk 180.

[ckb]

I gotta disagree with you guys on this one. The Retailer Review is the first time the full story was printed. It wasn't just a sneak peak, but a fully printed story. It might not be colored. It might not even be fully inked. However, the first fully published Q&W story is in the Retailer Review.

I don't think it matters if the book was free or cost money, offered as a promo or meant for resale. It's not like the Malibu Sun/Spawn appearance, or the Hulk 181/182 cameo. This also isn't like the Absolute Vertigo/Preacher first appearance, as that isn't the full story. Just a few pages. Overstreet notes the preview and 1st issue as the first appearance

I think CGC's marking both as first is fair since the contents are the same. But the retailer review wasn't a published book, it falls more into the ashcan category. So I'm with Greg overall. Note that isn't making any judgment on value. The retailer review should probably command more money than the regular #1 (unless it is easily counterfeited).

[JCP]

I think it's really interesting how high the #1 painted is selling for at the moment on eBay. If Q&W go up this much in value overnight over a tv show how high will Harbinger and Bloodshot go up when a decent movie trailer is released?

[nycjadie]

It's pretty wild. The TPB and Omnibus cost more to buy than the issues last week. Right now, it looks like a #1 bottoms at $40. I wonder what a CGC copy would sell for right now. That has certainly changed now. Dudes are digging in their boxes, I'm sure.

I always buy a Q&W 1 when it's right in front of me, no matter the grade. That will change moving forward...

[kjjohanson]

I think it's really interesting how high the #1 painted is selling for at the moment on eBay. If Q&W go up this much in value overnight over a tv show how high will Harbinger and Bloodshot go up when a decent movie trailer is released?

The print run of Q&W is way lower than the other books, and were never really considered valuable like the others, so were probably not cared for as well as the others

[kjjohanson]

It's pretty wild. The TPB and Omnibus cost more to buy than the issues last week. Right now, it looks like a #1 bottoms at $40. I wonder what a CGC copy would sell for right now. That has certainly changed now. Dudes are digging in their boxes, I'm sure.

I always buy a Q&W 1 when it's right in front of me, no matter the grade. That will change moving forward...

Same here. #1 and #3.

[kjjohanson]

I'm with Greg, and not just because I have one of the two 9.8s of the regular cover and the only 9.6 (highest currently on the census) of the painted. Even if it's a full story, I still see the Retailer Review as a marketing collectible rather than a creative collectible. The latter certainly has some desirability, but I think the finished product is more important.

[mkb28]

It's pretty wild. The TPB and Omnibus cost more to buy than the issues last week. Right now, it looks like a #1 bottoms at $40. I wonder what a CGC copy would sell for right now. That has certainly changed now. Dudes are digging in their boxes, I'm sure.

I always buy a Q&W 1 when it's right in front of me, no matter the grade. That will change moving forward...

Same here. #1 and #3.

I have lost track of how many #1 copies I have left behind in dollar bins.

[DirtbagSailor]

I do not care if folks agree with me or not.

Solar Man of the Atom #3 CLEARLY featured the earliest known appearance of Woody!

[greg]

I do not care if folks agree with me or not.

Solar Man of the Atom #3 CLEARLY featured the earliest known appearance of Woody!

[jmatt]

But the retailer review wasn't a published book, it falls more into the ashcan category. So I'm with Greg overall. Note that isn't making any judgment on value. The retailer review should probably command more money than the regular #1 (unless it is easily counterfeited).

Agree. This is the collector / Valiant collector thing. Retailer Review will fetch a higher price with Valiant collectors due to scarcity and novelty. A regular collector is gonna want to see the characters on the cover.

[Elveen]

I think it's really interesting how high the #1 painted is selling for at the moment on eBay. If Q&W go up this much in value overnight over a tv show how high will Harbinger and Bloodshot go up when a decent movie trailer is released?

The print run of Q&W is way lower than the other books, and were never really considered valuable like the others, so were probably not cared for as well as the others

If the casting is right, and if the show is on the right channel for it, and if the show is good / really good, then there will NO WAY BE enough copies of this book in any form for the peeps looking for it.

Lots of "ifs". But look at the talent attached to it already.

[IMJ]

I think it has to be Quantum & Woody #1, both the regular edition and the painted variant.

The Previews/Reviews are exactly that... previews. They're marketing books, hoping you'll buy "the real thing".
It's really hard for me to make something "the real thing" when the purpose was to announce and sell "the real thing".

Including Quantum & Woody #1 Retailer Review, there is probably a preview in Valiant Heroes Special Preview Edition (stand-alone)... possibly the earliest preview.
I'm also wondering about the date of the Acclaim Reader.

At any rate, those all are advertisements which hope that you'll buy "the real thing"... their first appearance in the #1 issue, which comes in two flavors.

I agree with you on the limited 250 signed copies with certificates. Those are after-market creations, not official Valiant/Acclaim products.
Anyone could (and did) do those all the time in the 1990s. They're definitely tough to find, and I don't doubt they'd be expensive. But they aren't official.
Only the Valiant Validated Signature Series books were "the real thing", created and sold by Valiant. Everything else like it was created and sold by "not Valiant".

I don't disagree, but something to note are instances where the market looks to that kind of material for 1st apps. Marvel Age with Darkhawk comes to mind.

[greg]

I don't disagree, but something to note are instances where the market looks to that kind of material for 1st apps. Marvel Age with Darkhawk comes to mind.

I still think books like Marvel Age are previews which aren't first appearances. They are harder to find, and can sometimes sell for more money, but book cost isn't the most important factor.

The very definition of "preview" causes confusion. How can you see something before it appears?

If we can accept that a preview can exist at all, then we should be able to recognize previews as marketing items. Unless they contain unique story contents, like DC Presents #26, previews are not 1st appearances. They're earlier. Pre-1st. 0th appearances.

They remind me of movie trailers and press screenings. None of those count as "opening night" for billion-dollar movies. Surely $20 comics aren't an exception. Previews are pre... views.

[kjjohanson]

I don't disagree, but something to note are instances where the market looks to that kind of material for 1st apps. Marvel Age with Darkhawk comes to mind.

I still think books like Marvel Age are previews which aren't first appearances. They are harder to find, and can sometimes sell for more money, but book cost isn't the most important factor.

The very definition of "preview" causes confusion. How can you see something before it appears?

If we can accept that a preview can exist at all, then we should be able to recognize previews as marketing items. Unless they contain unique story contents, like DC Presents #26, previews are not 1st appearances. They're earlier. Pre-1st. 0th appearances.

They remind me of movie trailers and press screenings. None of those count as "opening night" for billion-dollar movies. Surely $20 comics aren't an exception. Previews are pre... views.

I like to separate creative content from marketing content. A first appearance has traditionally been considered the first instance of a character in creative content. While Marvel Age, Retailer Reviews, etc., include pages from the actual stories to be printed (unlike, for example, an ad with an image of the character), they are still printed in material meant to market the book in question, not to be the product itself. That's the difference I see.

Now, people will point to the value of some marketing materials (e.g. Malibu Sun) as "evidence" of the market choosing that as a first appearance. I disagree. Whether something is more valuable doesn't determine whether it's a first appearance. Value is determined by supply vs demand. Marketing materials in high-grade are sometimes more valuable because they were generally considered throwaway items (much like early comic books), so they are far less abundant in high grade. That's why you'll find things like Malibu Sun and Marvel Age going for more than average copies of Spawn #1 and Darkhawk #1. The comics were published in greater numbers, and more importantly, *preserved* in far greater numbers, so finding a 9.8 candidate is far easier. There's less demand for the marketing material in general, but for those items the supply is proportionally much lower.

I think one important litmus test here is this: if you're a collector (not a speculator) who owns one of the marketing materials in question, do you then think that it's unnecessary to own the comic in your collection.?

[OhioValiantNut]

So .... it all boils down to which copy a person is hoping to get the most $$$ for?

[greg]

So .... it all boils down to which copy a person is hoping to get the most $$$ for?

I think that's a separate question.

If you're holding this one... you can probably get the most $$$ of all, and no one would say it's their first appearance.

[hulk181man]

I don't disagree, but something to note are instances where the market looks to that kind of material for 1st apps. Marvel Age with Darkhawk comes to mind.

I still think books like Marvel Age are previews which aren't first appearances. They are harder to find, and can sometimes sell for more money, but book cost isn't the most important factor.

The very definition of "preview" causes confusion. How can you see something before it appears?

If we can accept that a preview can exist at all, then we should be able to recognize previews as marketing items. Unless they contain unique story contents, like DC Presents #26, previews are not 1st appearances. They're earlier. Pre-1st. 0th appearances.

They remind me of movie trailers and press screenings. None of those count as "opening night" for billion-dollar movies. Surely $20 comics aren't an exception. Previews are pre... views.

By this criteria, the Previews: Starting Over chapter contains the first unique Q&W content --- although technically, this is the boy's fathers rather than Eric and Woody. I don't believe these pages were ever reprinted anywhere. Does anyone know otherwise??