The issue with Valiant?

[1ForChrist]

This may have been discussed in an earlier thread, if it was, please delete and link the discussion.

I'm aware of some faithful collectors of Marvel, DC, and Image on how their view on Valiant is "okay" or a "thumbs down" from being interested in the universe back in the day (don't know if that's still the current perspective), reading the current universe at this point, or even in collecting graded copies of any Valiant books.

1) Does anyone know the possible reasons behind this viewpoint?
2) What is your honest view of Valiant stories, artists, writers in comparison to Marvel, DC, and Image?

[greg]

I'll answer question 1)...
Personally, I think when you start with Marvel or D.C. fans, you get people who have essentially chosen their comic universe flavor. I like to think of them as ketchup and mustard.

Valiant is like sriracha. There are a few people who stop using ketchup altogether when they taste sriracha, but it's nowhere near a majority. Ketchup still wins by a long shot. The average ketchup or mustard lover is "okay" or "thumbs down" on sriracha.

Image is a weirder scenario because Image isn't a comic universe. There's no overlap between Invincible and Walking Dead, even though they have the same writer and 100+ issues each. You might like both, but it's not because they are cohesive in any way. Image as a publisher is like all the other spices on a shelf. Image fans have a favorite that's not ketchup or mustard, but it would be really weird for someone to claim that their favorite is all of the spices in the same dish.

You also used the word "faithful". That's another good analogy. Lifetime followers of a particular denomination rarely switch.

[greg]

To answer question 2)...

I don't have the patience for Marvel and D.C.

They've got 56 and 79 years of publishing history, respectively... so that tells me one of two things...
Either
1) the history is primarily decades of books that don't really matter
or
2) the history matters and I'm a lifetime behind in my reading

I don't want to spend any time with 1) and I don't have enough time for 2).

As for Image, I love Invincible but don't like Walking Dead. That's about as tight as it gets since they're both Image and they're both Kirkman. Otherwise, Image isn't a thing. It's many things. Many unrelated things. I'm too loyal for many unrelated things.

[DirtbagSailor]

Many Valiant artists also work (or have worked) for Marvel and/or DC.

Valiant's writers didn't randomly decide to start writing when Valiant re-launched; they wrote for other publishers.

So it's not really an issue of artwork, writing, or quality.

It is a social and psychological reality.

People like what they know and are able to connect with others about. 1,000,000,000+ people know who Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man are and how they are part of modern pulp culture. They can discuss Deadpool or Harley Quinn at school or at work and sound "socially relevant or interesting".

This is (presently) hard for most people to do with Valiant as the majority of people have no understanding or background with the source material, which limits the breadth and depth of the conversation. It limits the social and psychological value such discussion yields.

So, people mostly continue to go with what they know (and skeptically avoid) what they do not because that is what people just do...

...Until something new catches fire, and what causes that spark is the quality, backed by a LOT of invested money to present that something new to the world. Then it becomes something "different" and interesting, while ALSO socially and psychologically rewarding.

[JCP]

I think Valiant gets a "thumbs down" from some of the Marvel and DC guys because they incorrectly associate today's Valiant with VH1's 90's overprinting and damage to the comics market in general. VEI is completely independent of the original Valiant in terms of ownership. A lot of those who improperly speculated in the 90's placed a lot of blame on the original company and haven't let go. Instead they let their anger stew against VEI and won't pick up a book, even though the art is better and the story is more deserving of their time than nearly anything "ketchup" and "mustard" put out. I'll take my Sriracha all day long.

[Ricomortis]

I think Valiant gets a "thumbs down" from some of the Marvel and DC guys because they incorrectly associate today's Valiant with VH1's 90's overprinting and damage to the comics market in general. VEI is completely independent of the original Valiant in terms of ownership. A lot of those who improperly speculated in the 90's placed a lot of blame on the original company and haven't let go. Instead they let their anger stew against VEI and won't pick up a book, even though the art is better and the story is more deserving of their time than nearly anything "ketchup" and "mustard" put out. I'll take my Sriracha all day long.

Also, the stories were lets say "not very bueno" after Pre-unity. This is also when the print run and company exploded. All those people buying then got the worst of the company. IMO I'm afraid most people associate that with today's company. Not EVEN the same beast.

VEI has already hit some grand slams and are looking for more. I absolutely LOVE how they don't waste their time with what doesn't work and are ALWAYS open to new ideas and directions. Ketchup and mustard, IMO, do a horrible job. I'm truly baffled to the amount of folks that follow them. (Overall... Yes I know there are exceptions here and there)

Rico

[jmatt]

While a lot of good points are made here, imo it's simply brand loyalty. You've spent a decade collecting and reading Marvel, maybe spent a ton of coin on variants you hope will be worth something someday... and what? You're gonna change now? But Marvel has so many movies and none of my friends have even heard about this Valiant line...

So people are invested in maintaining their status quo, financially, socially and psychologically.

This will change with one good movie. Then, you will see a small contingent of comic buyers rush into the franchise so they can say they were onto it before everyone else. Not a lot, because the Big 2 have such unbelievable market momentum. But some.

And a second good movie will bring more "some".

[battlepark]

When I started into Valiant in 92 it was after Marvel cleared house and lost all their talent. The books just got worse. Valiant was fresh
with ideas, new talent and big name Marvel/DC vets.

Now Marvel movies are great, but again the books just don't interest me. Thank goodness for Valiant to keep me in comics. Valiant is on year 5, and
is in much better shape as far as story and talent then 90's valiant was in it's 5th year. Eventually people who shied away from Valiant because they
think it will fail (again) will realize they are here to stay.

[nutflush76]

I think Valiant gets a "thumbs down" from some of the Marvel and DC guys because they incorrectly associate today's Valiant with VH1's 90's overprinting and damage to the comics market in general. VEI is completely independent of the original Valiant in terms of ownership. A lot of those who improperly speculated in the 90's placed a lot of blame on the original company and haven't let go. Instead they let their anger stew against VEI and won't pick up a book, even though the art is better and the story is more deserving of their time than nearly anything "ketchup" and "mustard" put out. I'll take my Sriracha all day long.

This is the single biggest reason that I hear from people when I talk to them about Valiant. The crash happened years ago, and the indie darling Image had a lot to do with that crash as well as Marvel and DC. For some reason Valiant is the face of the 90's crash for reasons I am not sure of.

[ShadowTuga]

This may have been discussed in an earlier thread, if it was, please delete and link the discussion.

I'm aware of some faithful collectors of Marvel, DC, and Image on how their view on Valiant is "okay" or a "thumbs down" from being interested in the universe back in the day (don't know if that's still the current perspective), reading the current universe at this point, or even in collecting graded copies of any Valiant books.

1) Does anyone know the possible reasons behind this viewpoint?
2) What is your honest view of Valiant stories, artists, writers in comparison to Marvel, DC, and Image?

1) I think I can only speak for myself. If Valiant had just got into my radar NOW, i would prob pass it. I'm waaaaaay invested in my childhood comic stars (Batman, mostly), and yes, I even was a Marvel reader not so long ago. I stopped about 5 years ago, or so. This because I don't recognise the HoI. I truly, truly don't. What was once a ultra cool thing for kids and adults alike, became a supermarket bizz, with a strong SJW agenda that even I, a liberal, find waaaay too much on the nose. It's kinda ridiculous, actually, that grown people are reading this stuff (the billions of Avengers books, for an example) and don't feel cheated, or at least meh.
But honestly, whatever, to each it's own.
My Batfandom is 35 years old sorta (i'm turning 40 this year) and no book or character can compete with that. If I could only have one book per month, it would be one of the Bat titles, blindly. Even if it wasn't the best I could choose. In this case, total fanboyism. And loyalty to a character, not a publisher- I still don't consider myself a DC comics universe "true fan".
My investment in the Valiant universe began with a desire to have a full complete universe of superheroes, brand new!!! With a strong, STRONG passion about stories' quality, overall. I began with VEI because I still think they are the Next Big Thing in superhero comics. Even if we don't share the same tastes, sometimes (DD, Faith, Q&W, A+A...).
I've seen some incredible stuff in comics in the last 5 years because this company exists. It enraged me so many times that no one was reading Imperium. But Spider-Gwen and whatever, sell like cupcakes.

"Because i don't know the characters, and superhero stuff is better done at DC or Marvel. Look AT THE MOVIES, MAN!!!" is something that I can see someone saying these days in a comic shop. Superhero stuff outside the Big 2 is HARD TO SELL for a long period of time, IMHO, and IF your company relies on that, doom is soon.
I can only think of Image's Spawn and Savage Dragon as books that broke that norm. But would they be there without the Kirkman effect in the business?

2) I think Valiant has the tools and skills to make this a serious alternative to the other 2 superhero publishers. If the stories COUNT (don't reboot, don't retcon stuff, etc, etc, please!), and the passion for a shared world is THERE FOR REAL, I can only see success for VEI. Let the movies come-. Let the pop-world know Faith or Aric. Think on how crazy the teen metalheads will be when they discover Shadowman and Darque in serious gruesome battles in the Deadside. Think how Ninjak is gonna be a Superstar in short-term. People LOVE Ninjas. And James Bond. And weird stuff. Ca-shing!!!!
I really believe in Valiant, above all- their will to give us GREAT comics is something to be absolutely loved. DC or Marvel don't really care- their characters sell like crazy because they are what they are. What characters can compete with Supes, Bats, the Hulk, Wolverine or Spidey? They can't.
Valiant has to cater to more mature audiences- and include teens, who can "think" and "judge", also. And they get tired of same old same old VERY fast these days.
I trust Valiant.

[Sven the Returned]

This will change with one good movie. Then, you will see a small contingent of comic buyers rush into the franchise so they can say they were onto it before everyone else. Not a lot, because the Big 2 have such unbelievable market momentum. But some.

Momentum? More like eternity.

[wokuya]

FWIW...

My favorite comics universe overall is DC.

My favorite stories are Marvel's "cosmic" heroes.

The only universe I buy every issue every month is Valiant.

[onearmedwampa3000]

I've been fighting a one man war over on CBSI on this very topic for the last year plus. I'm pretty active in the forums and even started a couple Valiant specific threads that I used to update every week with new books, character breakdowns, and possible good investments to fit the theme of the site. There was literally one guy that would occasionally respond to my threads, and if I ever left a comment suggesting someone check out a Valiant book in the comments of one of their columns someone would always shun me or slight Valiant. So I quit. I figure 3 years from now they'll all have Valiant's d**k in their mouths. What I learned though was that no one wanted to take the time away from Marvel and DC to invest time or money in a new shared universe. Pretty sad because regardless of investment potential, Valiant is the only publisher pushing the superhero medium forward.

[JCP]

I've been fighting a one man war over on CBSI on this very topic for the last year plus. I'm pretty active in the forums and even started a couple Valiant specific threads that I used to update every week with new books, character breakdowns, and possible good investments to fit the theme of the site. There was literally one guy that would occasionally respond to my threads, and if I ever left a comment suggesting someone check out a Valiant book in the comments of one of their columns someone would always shun me or slight Valiant. So I quit. I figure 3 years from now they'll all have Valiant's d**k in their mouths. What I learned though was that no one wanted to take the time away from Marvel and DC to invest time or money in a new shared universe. Pretty sad because regardless of investment potential, Valiant is the only publisher pushing the superhero medium forward.

Trey and his crew are hypocrites. How do you tout an investment site and ignore the giant spec potential of Valiant? Let them hate on Valiant. We can reap the rewards since we're well aware of the quality product being released weekly. I stopped giving that website clicks months ago and left their G+ group. Apart from Seven to Eternity there really hasn't been a good spec hit mentioned by them in a very long time. They also demand civility and respect in posts and then rip Valiant and their fans. There is a more relevant site called comic book speculation and market trends. I find hem to be more welcoming and honest in their posts.

[onearmedwampa3000]

I've been fighting a one man war over on CBSI on this very topic for the last year plus. I'm pretty active in the forums and even started a couple Valiant specific threads that I used to update every week with new books, character breakdowns, and possible good investments to fit the theme of the site. There was literally one guy that would occasionally respond to my threads, and if I ever left a comment suggesting someone check out a Valiant book in the comments of one of their columns someone would always shun me or slight Valiant. So I quit. I figure 3 years from now they'll all have Valiant's d**k in their mouths. What I learned though was that no one wanted to take the time away from Marvel and DC to invest time or money in a new shared universe. Pretty sad because regardless of investment potential, Valiant is the only publisher pushing the superhero medium forward.

Trey and his crew are hypocrites. How do you tout an investment site and ignore the giant spec potential of Valiant? Let them hate on Valiant. We can reap the rewards since we're well aware of the quality product being released weekly. I stopped giving that website clicks months ago and left their G+ group. Apart from Seven to Eternity there really hasn't been a good spec hit mentioned by them in a very long time. They also demand civility and respect in posts and then rip Valiant and their fans. There is a more relevant site called comic book speculation and market trends. I find hem to be more welcoming and honest in their posts.

I agree. I have more pleasant interactions with a couple guys, but all of them are in a bubble. You're absolutely right with respect to what you said about Valiant, but one thing I try not to do that I've seen a lot of Valiant "fans" do is badmouth the other team or whine. I find it easier to just say my peace about what I love about Valiant and move on, especially on CBSI. It's a shame because when they spotlight a book it vanishes on ebay. Time my friend. All in time.