Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by jmatt »

Not to be a wet blanket, but what are the odds that Valiant printed anything at less than 200 copies?

Or am I missing the point?

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by drmirage »

Good to have this info and glad to see that Greg added the "*" to these numbers. Before anyone goes out and spend crazy $$ looking for these book, note this is just speculation based on the sales on comichron.

We really do not know what the actual prints are on any books unless they are disclosed by VEI.

There can be thousands of copies of each book printed hidden somewhere in the vault. :D Every publisher prints extras to use for whatever purpose they want. As a publisher, it would be foolish not to have extras since these are inexpensive to print and they can always be used as currency to give to creative staff, writers, promotions etc.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by valiantking »

Greg

You are the man!!! Thank you!!!

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

jmatt wrote:Not to be a wet blanket, but what are the odds that Valiant printed anything at less than 200 copies?

Or am I missing the point?
Some books are 1:50 variants for issues with 9,000 copies. Some are 1:20 variants for issues with 6,000 copies. Some are 1:100 linewide for months Valiant sold 70,000 issues.
There are hundreds of incentive variants from Valiant. This list put all those variants in order according to those calculations. That's the point.

What actually exists is Valiant's knowledge. What can be calculated from Previews/Comichron to give us some idea... is what we've got.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by JCP »

It's awesome to have folks like Greg, Ed, and DBS here. Thanks fellas!
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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Chiclo »

greg wrote: 56. ARCHER & ARMSTRONG (VU) #10 50 COPY INCV ROBINSON (260 copies calculated)
I don't own a copy of this cover, but I do have the original art for it. :hm:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by DirtbagSailor »

Chiclo wrote:
greg wrote: 56. ARCHER & ARMSTRONG (VU) #10 50 COPY INCV ROBINSON (260 copies calculated)
I don't own a copy of this cover, but I do have the original art for it. :hm:
Total victory! :thumb:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by CongoBill »

Valiant One wrote:Just a heads up,

I picked up the last one from Midtown Comics.

Ed

Dang! I was planning to pick up one of these from Midtown. I have a gift card there I haven't used yet. Maybe I'll grab a Wrath of the Eternal Warrior #3 1:50 instead.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by CongoBill »

>>>2. ARMOR HUNTERS #4 (OF 4) 50 COPY INCV HENRY (AH) (114 copies calculated)


What is this book? It doesn't seem to show up on Valiant Database, unless I'm missing something. Anybody have a screen shot of the cover?

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by jeremycoe »

Image
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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

CongoBill wrote:>>>2. ARMOR HUNTERS #4 (OF 4) 50 COPY INCV HENRY (AH) (114 copies calculated)

What is this book? It doesn't seem to show up on Valiant Database, unless I'm missing something. Anybody have a screen shot of the cover?
jeremycoe wrote:Image
Yep, looks closer to the second one with the title... the final cover probably has a barcode visible.
Image

Bruce may have a photo, but it's not visible in his auction for the full Armor Hunters set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261696989344" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by nycjadie »

We may never know how many were printed. Perhaps Valiant knows. If they do/don't, they aren't talking. Printing mistakes happen that we know about (X-O 5, 12, etc.), and many others we probably don't. Total printing numbers are best guesses, I imagine. I'm not sure how invoicing happens in this industry. Valiant certainly knows how many copies they pay for, but perhaps not the cover distribution. Not sure if Diamond accepts returns or destroys overprinted books, etc. It's likely Valiant has a few copies of each, horded away in employee collections that will at some point make it into the open market, much as the original V1 employee stuff has.

What we can do is take the metrics we know and calculate a best guesstimate. It's probably going to be pretty close to accurate anyway. Focusing on maximum # earned, or whatever, gives us the information we need to determine scarcity, and that's really what it's about.

Best,
Steve

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by depluto »

<returns from another trip to eBay ...>

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by jeremycoe »

depluto wrote:<returns from another trip to eBay ...>
I hear it's nice there this time of year.
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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by jmatt »

greg wrote:This list put all those variants in order according to those calculations. That's the point.

What actually exists is Valiant's knowledge. What can be calculated from Previews/Comichron to give us some idea... is what we've got.
Got it. The list is what the numbers should be if the print runs adhered to the company's stated ratio figures.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by CongoBill »

jeremycoe wrote:Image

Wow, that book hasn't been on my radar at all in terms of seeking out the "tough" VEI variant issues. Anybody have one for sale? :-)

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by jaspersk »

I hope those numbers are close to correct then Ill be a
Rich man someday. I have doubts. Marvels silk 3 1:25
Came out when i bought the book from jscott campbells
Site there were 60 copies available. The ratio represents what
Needs to be ordered in order to get a copy not necessarily
Saying they are printed in that ratio. The extras are accumulating
Somewhere. I think this goes for all the companies and one
Day out of the blue tons of alleged tough variants will
Come out of the woodwork. The only thing i count on
When it comes to business even if is the business of
Enjoying our comics is greed. Somebody has all the
Unqualified variants and likely a *SQUEE* ton of them

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

nycjadie wrote:We may never know how many were printed. Perhaps Valiant knows. If they do/don't, they aren't talking. Printing mistakes happen that we know about (X-O 5, 12, etc.), and many others we probably don't. Total printing numbers are best guesses, I imagine. I'm not sure how invoicing happens in this industry. Valiant certainly knows how many copies they pay for, but perhaps not the cover distribution. Not sure if Diamond accepts returns or destroys overprinted books, etc. It's likely Valiant has a few copies of each, horded away in employee collections that will at some point make it into the open market, much as the original V1 employee stuff has.

What we can do is take the metrics we know and calculate a best guesstimate. It's probably going to be pretty close to accurate anyway. Focusing on maximum # earned, or whatever, gives us the information we need to determine scarcity, and that's really what it's about.

Best,
Steve
Exactly. About 10 years after it was released, an Ebay seller suddenly had about 20 to 40 copies of X-O Manowar #1/2 Gold Variant. Prior to those books, only about 10 copies had ever been seen in the market. The price fell from $250 to $25 in just a few weeks. It has been 10 more years and there hasn't been another stack of X-O Manowar #1/2 Gold Variant found. There are other Valiant/Acclaim variants where no stacks ever showed up. They might someday. The market has adjusted to the supply of X-O #1/2 Gold and it's possible to pick up a copy under $100, but not likely to pick up one for $25 anymore. When the supply was the highest was the best time to buy that rare book. For the current Valiant books, the supply has been the highest and the prices have been the lowest during the week of release. There's definitely a danger in paying $250 for a rare Valiant variant. The X-O #1/2 Gold stack scenario might happen for these Valiant variants someday. The alternative to paying the market price is to hope for a future chance at a lower price if the supply suddenly increases. That might happen. Might not. All any of us know for sure is which of these books we have and which ones we don't.

We shouldn't be surprised if a stack of any variant on this list shows up someday... and we shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by depluto »

I think with the older Valiant and Acclaim books, some of the hidden stashes popped up later because there was never enough original interest in some of those books to allow for full distribution (or with Wizard books there might be other weird reasons). I feel like every one of these VEI rare(r) variants make their way into collector's hands pretty quickly, and if there is a hidden stash anywhere it would be the VEI offices with overprints.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

depluto wrote:I think with the older Valiant and Acclaim books, some of the hidden stashes popped up later because there was never enough original interest in some of those books to allow for full distribution (or with Wizard books there might be other weird reasons). I feel like every one of these VEI rare(r) variants make their way into collector's hands pretty quickly, and if there is a hidden stash anywhere it would be the VEI offices with overprints.
We know that visitors to the VEI offices often leave with souvenirs in the form of gold books or whatever is the freshest book/trinket. I haven't heard of anyone walking out of VEI in 2015 with a 2013 variant for a non-#1 issue. That seems too random for VEI's message. So if the older (non-#1) variants are in the VEI offices, they're just gathering dust. :hm:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by depluto »

Some of the ratios on this list don't match up with the Valiant Database site, although I think this list is more accurate. Little stuff, but it's tripped me up a few times on what I pay for variants. Ex.: Unity 23 Eaton ... you have 1:20 and VD has it 1:10. I think the 20 is right. Unity 18 Eisma ... you have 1:20 and VD has pullbox variant. Again, I think the 20 is right.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

depluto wrote:Some of the ratios on this list don't match up with the Valiant Database site, although I think this list is more accurate. Little stuff, but it's tripped me up a few times on what I pay for variants. Ex.: Unity 23 Eaton ... you have 1:20 and VD has it 1:10. I think the 20 is right. Unity 18 Eisma ... you have 1:20 and VD has pullbox variant. Again, I think the 20 is right.
I've compiled this list directly from Previews. (That's why some of the names are wonky, all caps, odd abbreviations, etc.) If the ratio got changed after it was presented to retailers in Previews, then this list might be wrong, but if not... this is (Diamond Distributors) Previews official.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by depluto »

greg wrote:
depluto wrote:Some of the ratios on this list don't match up with the Valiant Database site, although I think this list is more accurate. Little stuff, but it's tripped me up a few times on what I pay for variants. Ex.: Unity 23 Eaton ... you have 1:20 and VD has it 1:10. I think the 20 is right. Unity 18 Eisma ... you have 1:20 and VD has pullbox variant. Again, I think the 20 is right.
I've compiled this list directly from Previews. (That's why some of the names are wonky, all caps, odd abbreviations, etc.) If the ratio got changed after it was presented to retailers in Previews, then this list might be wrong, but if not... this is (Diamond Distributors) Previews official.
Sounds good to me ... this is the same info used for valiantpriceguide.com?

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

depluto wrote:
greg wrote:
depluto wrote:Some of the ratios on this list don't match up with the Valiant Database site, although I think this list is more accurate. Little stuff, but it's tripped me up a few times on what I pay for variants. Ex.: Unity 23 Eaton ... you have 1:20 and VD has it 1:10. I think the 20 is right. Unity 18 Eisma ... you have 1:20 and VD has pullbox variant. Again, I think the 20 is right.
I've compiled this list directly from Previews. (That's why some of the names are wonky, all caps, odd abbreviations, etc.) If the ratio got changed after it was presented to retailers in Previews, then this list might be wrong, but if not... this is (Diamond Distributors) Previews official.
Sounds good to me ... this is the same info used for valiantpriceguide.com?
Not yet. I compiled Previews and Comichron as a new list. It hasn't been merged with the price guide yet.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by depluto »

You need some minions.

:wink:


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