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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:34:32 pm 
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
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Ricomortis wrote:
Let's not forget another very very important FACT!

The print runs of the variants you listed are the number that the ratio of the variant says they needed to print. (1:40 Braithwaite variant had 350 copies, which is confirmed by Dino) These were more then what was required (I calculated that they needed 250 to cover the ratio). Dino said the extras (100 in this case) were to cover damages and needs in case of problems. He also stated in an interview that after returns and what not the extras (minus a few to keep in case) were destroyed. That includes the books that didn't meet the requirement. (For instance, many retailers only order a few copies for their store and did not qualify for the variant.) So apparently, those were destroyed as well.

I think the print runs are awesome to go by, but by what Dino said, the actual amount left in existence can be less than the print run.

Just saying!

Rico

Keep in mind that the number reported by Comichon are for North America only. We don't know how many sold in the rest of the world.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:18:29 am 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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Did anyone ever nail down what the print run was for 2012's Harbinger #3 1:20 variant (1st Livewire) and 2012's Harbinger #1 QR 1:50 and X-0 #1 QR 1:50 variants?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:21:16 am 
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
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Juki wrote:
Did anyone ever nail down what the print run was for 2012's Harbinger #3 1:20 variant (1st Livewire) and 2012's Harbinger #1 QR 1:50 and X-0 #1 QR 1:50 variants?

They were at least 1,000 copies according to Dinesh because all Valiant books were at least 1,000 in 2012.

What may be more important than the original print runs will be the things already mentioned:
- destruction of unsold/unrewarded incentive variants
- quantities of issues held by Valiant insiders/creators

There's one aspect that seems far more important to me than even these...
- method of distribution

It's a complex discussion, but in the simplest terms, it's quite possible that 2,000 copies distributed evenly/randomly would be much tougher to obtain (in the future) than a book limited to 200 copies sent to a single location/dealer/convention and distributed however that one source chooses.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:11:29 pm 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.

Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:45:52 pm
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greg wrote:
Juki wrote:
Did anyone ever nail down what the print run was for 2012's Harbinger #3 1:20 variant (1st Livewire) and 2012's Harbinger #1 QR 1:50 and X-0 #1 QR 1:50 variants?

They were at least 1,000 copies according to Dinesh because all Valiant books were at least 1,000 in 2012.

What may be more important than the original print runs will be the things already mentioned:
- destruction of unsold/unrewarded incentive variants
- quantities of issues held by Valiant insiders/creators

There's one aspect that seems far more important to me than even these...
- method of distribution

It's a complex discussion, but in the simplest terms, it's quite possible that 2,000 copies distributed evenly/randomly would be much tougher to obtain (in the future) than a book limited to 200 copies sent to a single location/dealer/convention and distributed however that one source chooses.



So, approximately when did the 1000 print minimum per variant issue end (with possible destruction of unrewarded extras)? Did that practice go well into 2013? Did it stop in Jan. 2013?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:58:32 am 
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
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Juki wrote:
greg wrote:
Juki wrote:
Did anyone ever nail down what the print run was for 2012's Harbinger #3 1:20 variant (1st Livewire) and 2012's Harbinger #1 QR 1:50 and X-0 #1 QR 1:50 variants?

They were at least 1,000 copies according to Dinesh because all Valiant books were at least 1,000 in 2012.

So, approximately when did the 1000 print minimum per variant issue end (with possible destruction of unrewarded extras)? Did that practice go well into 2013? Did it stop in Jan. 2013?

I feel like it lasted at least a year, which would have been through May 2013... but that's not quoted from a source. :hm:

I would guess that #1 issues survived in higher numbers since they're associated with the highest printed book in a series, "historic" first issues for artists/writers/creators, general collectability, etc.
I would also guess that everything from 2012 and early 2013 is somewhere, possibly in small stacks, because there were a lot more buyers of multiples in those days.

Even if there are 1,500-2,000 copies of Harbinger #3 1:20 variants, that's a really small number considering Livewire's redesign/reboot is basically an all-new Valiant title character (first appearance).
It's too bad Livewire doesn't appear on the cover of either version (regular or 1:20).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:08:45 am 
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greg wrote:
Even if there are 1,500-2,000 copies of Harbinger #3 1:20 variants, that's a really small number considering Livewire's redesign/reboot is basically an all-new Valiant title character (first appearance).

It's too bad Livewire doesn't appear on the cover of either version (regular or 1:20).


On one hand I do agee Greg.

At the same time, it like that Harbinger #3 is one of those issues where we were NOT “force fed” a *new* character. Livewire did not really pick up until later on in the series, which cause so many to overlook this issue from a collector standpoint and subsequent look for it years later.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:11:20 am 
Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
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DirtbagSailor wrote:
greg wrote:
Even if there are 1,500-2,000 copies of Harbinger #3 1:20 variants, that's a really small number considering Livewire's redesign/reboot is basically an all-new Valiant title character (first appearance).

It's too bad Livewire doesn't appear on the cover of either version (regular or 1:20).


On one hand I do agee Greg.

At the same time, it like that Harbinger #3 is one of those issues where we were NOT “force fed” a *new* character. Livewire did not really pick up until later on in the series, which cause so many to overlook this issue from a collector standpoint and subsequent look for it years later.


I can't believe there are more than 1000 copies of this book. Anecdotally, I've been watching this book since it came out, among others, and it just doesn't come up available that often. I find that fact the most determinative for me in terms of scarcity, but it's all anecdotal, I admit.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:32:58 pm 
lookin pu nub in all da wong pwaces
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nycjadie wrote:
DirtbagSailor wrote:
greg wrote:
Even if there are 1,500-2,000 copies of Harbinger #3 1:20 variants, that's a really small number considering Livewire's redesign/reboot is basically an all-new Valiant title character (first appearance).

It's too bad Livewire doesn't appear on the cover of either version (regular or 1:20).


On one hand I do agee Greg.

At the same time, it like that Harbinger #3 is one of those issues where we were NOT “force fed” a *new* character. Livewire did not really pick up until later on in the series, which cause so many to overlook this issue from a collector standpoint and subsequent look for it years later.


I can't believe there are more than 1000 copies of this book. Anecdotally, I've been watching this book since it came out, among others, and it just doesn't come up available that often. I find that fact the most determinative for me in terms of scarcity, but it's all anecdotal, I admit.


I agree... hell, Divinity 1 1:40 with 350 or less copies comes up WAY more than Harby 3 1:20.

JS...

Rico

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:48:15 pm 
Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
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Ricomortis wrote:
nycjadie wrote:
DirtbagSailor wrote:
greg wrote:
Even if there are 1,500-2,000 copies of Harbinger #3 1:20 variants, that's a really small number considering Livewire's redesign/reboot is basically an all-new Valiant title character (first appearance).

It's too bad Livewire doesn't appear on the cover of either version (regular or 1:20).


On one hand I do agee Greg.

At the same time, it like that Harbinger #3 is one of those issues where we were NOT “force fed” a *new* character. Livewire did not really pick up until later on in the series, which cause so many to overlook this issue from a collector standpoint and subsequent look for it years later.


I can't believe there are more than 1000 copies of this book. Anecdotally, I've been watching this book since it came out, among others, and it just doesn't come up available that often. I find that fact the most determinative for me in terms of scarcity, but it's all anecdotal, I admit.


I agree... hell, Divinity 1 1:40 with 350 or less copies comes up WAY more than Harby 3 1:20.

JS...

Rico


Very true. Bloodshot 3 1:25 is another one that rarely comes up.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:48:36 pm 
Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
Especially "dude." And "balls." Those terms work in the tech industry.
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Or 1% 1:20.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:38:55 pm 
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
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nycjadie wrote:
Or 1% 1:20.

That's a 1:30, no? Either way, tough find. I wasn't collecting all the incentives when that came out but I managed to get one on the aftermarket, which came back from CGC as 9.8

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:36:16 pm 
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Are there two different covers of the Ninjak 0 NYCC unreleased issue? The one that just sold on ebay wasn't the cover I was familiar with.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:26:42 pm 
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michalward wrote:
Are there two different covers of the Ninjak 0 NYCC unreleased issue? The one that just sold on ebay wasn't the cover I was familiar with.


You mean these two

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/ ... cid=199354

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/ ... cid=199355


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:11:08 pm 
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Yep those are them, thanks. Does anyone know if both were unreleased/equally as rare?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:50:10 pm 
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michalward wrote:
Yep those are them, thanks. Does anyone know if both were unreleased/equally as rare?


I believe just the Ninjak cover with the other valiant stars was unreleased but correct me if I am wrong


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:21:47 pm 
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
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michalward wrote:
Yep those are them, thanks. Does anyone know if both were unreleased/equally as rare?

Neither was released at the convention. I imagine that they were printed in equal numbers, but I doubt anyone can say for sure just how many made it out.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:54:16 pm 
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:breakingnews:

DINO CONFIRMATION!
received via Twitter DM on 20 APR 19! :thumb:

350 copies - Imperium #1 (Braithwaite 1:40)
600 copies - Imperium #1 (Braithwaite 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #2 (Braithwaite 1:20)
330 copies - Imperium #3 (Braithwaite 1:20)
425 copies - Imperium #4 (Braithwaite 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #5 (Grace 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #6 (Kano 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #7 (Tan 1:20)
450 copies - Imperium #8 (Henry 1:20)
425 copies - Imperium #9 (Ryp 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #10 (De La Torre 1:20)
325 copies - Imperium #11 (Walsh 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #12 (Palo 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #13 (Ryp 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #14 (Ryp 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #15 (Doyle 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #16 (Montoya 1:20

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:14:02 pm 
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UPDATED:


SPECIAL BOOKS (Purposely created with 1 copy each)
1 copy - Bloodshot Salvation #12 (LaRosa Vin Diesel Variant)
1 copy - Quantum And Woody (2017) #1 (Second Print)
1 copy - Unity #1 (Hitch Golden Ticket)
1 copy - Unity #1 (Jones Golden Ticket)
1 copy - Unity #1 (Rivera Golden Ticket)
1 copy - Unity #1 (Foreman Golden Ticket)
1 copy - Unity #1 (Crain Golden Ticket)


Store and/or Convention Exclusives:
3-10 known copies - Ninjak vs the Valiant Universe #0 (NYCC Unreleased Edition) - Supposedly all copies were destroyed
100 copies - Bloodshot: Project Rising Spirit #1 (Salgado Virgin)
100 copies - Livewire #1 (Salgado Virgin)
100 copies - The Life & Death of Toyo Harada #1 (Salgado Shazam Comics & Toys Virgin)
100 copies - Fallen World #1 Shazam (Salgado Shazam Comics & Toys Virgin)
400 copies - Bloodshot: Project Rising Spirit #1 (Salgado)
400 copies - Livewire #1 (Salgado)
400 copies - The Life & Death of Toyo Harada #1 (Salgado)
400 copies - The Life & Death of Toyo Harada #1 (Salgado Shazam Comics & Toys)
400 copies - Fallen World #1 (Salgado Shazam Comics & Toys)
500 copies - Bloodshot Rising Spirit #1 (Bulletproof Exclusive)
500 copies - Livewire #1 (Bulletproof Exclusive)
500 copies - Bloodshot Reborn #1 (C2E2 Woodward Variant)
500 copies - Harbinger Wars II #1 (Salgado Baltimore ComicCon)
500 copies - The Life & Death of Toyo Harada #1 (Adams South Carolina ComicCon Sketch)
550 copies - Fallen World #1 (Nerd Store/Wasatch ComicCon)
750 copies - The Life & Death of Toyo Harada #1 (Adams South Carolina ComicCon)
650 copies - The Life & Death of Toyo Harada #1 (Choi Paradise / Wondercon)
2,000 copies - X-O Manowar #1 (2017) (LaRosa Virgin Humble Bundle) - Signed by LaRosa
----------------X-O Manowar #1 (2017) (LaRosa Virgin Humble Bundle) - NOT signed by LaRosa = small percentage of the 2,000 copies; possibly 10 or less.

Normal Variants and/or Issues
50-75 copies (estimated) - X-O Manowar (2012) #1 (Error Second Print w/ First Print listed)
200 copies - Bloodshot Salvation #1 (Suayan Brushed Metal 1:250)
250 copies - Harbinger #25 (Kitson 1:50)
275 copies - Rapture #4 (Suayan 1:50)
275 copies - Savage #4 (LaRosa 1:50)
300 copies - Savage #1 (LaRosa 1:50)
325 copies - Imperium #11 (Walsh 1:20)
330 copies - Imperium #3 (Braithwaite 1:20)
350 copies - Divinity #1 (LaRosa 1:40)
350 copies - Savage #2 (LaRosa 1:50)
350 copies - Imperium #1 (Braithwaite 1:40)
350 copies - Imperium #2 (Braithwaite 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #12 (Palo 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #13 (Ryp 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #14 (Ryp 1:20)
350 copies - Imperium #15 (Doyle 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #5 (Grace 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #6 (Kano 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #7 (Tan 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #10 (De La Torre 1:20)
400 copies - Imperium #16 (Montoya 1:20)
400 copies - Shadowman #13 (Davis 1:50)
400 copies - Eternal Warrior #5 (Mack 1:50)
400 copies - X-O Manowar #15 (Kotaki 1:50)
------------ X-O Manowar #15 (Kotaki 1:50 Error) = small percentage of the 400 copies.
400 copies - Wrath of Eternal Warrior #4 (Lafuente 1:50)
425 copies - Imperium #4 (Braithwaite 1:20)
425 copies - Imperium #9 (Ryp 1:20)
450 copies - Imperium #8 (Henry 1:20)
450 copies - Savage #3 (LaRosa 1:50)
450 copies - Britannia #3 (Johnson 1:50)
500 copies - Harbinger Wars #3 (Zircher 1:50)
525 copies - 4001 A.D. #4 (Sook 1:100)
600 copies - Imperium #1 (Braithwaite 1:20)
600 copies - Britannia #2 (Johnson 1:50)
675 copies - A&A: Adventures of Archer & Armstrong #5 (Lafuente 1:50)
800 copies - Harbinger Wars #1 (Zircher 1:50)
2,800 copies - Ninjak 2015 #1 (Sauvage cover D)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:40:40 am 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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Juki wrote:
RICO,
Judging from the known print runs this would be my best "guesses" as to the actual Imperium print numbers:


350 copies - Imperium #1 (Braithwaite 1:40)
Imperium #1 (1:20) - 750
Imperium #2 (1:20) - 450
Imperium #3 (1:20) - 450
Imperium #4 (1:20) - 450
Imperium #5 (1:20) - 450
Imperium #6 (1:20) - 400
Imperium #7 (1:20) - 400
Imperium #8 (1:20) - 400
Imperium #9 (1:20) - 400
Imperium #10 (1:20) - 350
Imperium #11 (1:20) - 350
Imperium #12 (1:20) - 300
Imperium #13 (1:20) - 300
Imperium #14 (1:20) - 300
Imperium #15 (1:20) - 300
Imperium #16 (1:20) - 300

These would be my best guesses at print runs. Hopefully we will know hard numbers at some point.


It looks like I was fairly close to the actual numbers. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:48:49 pm 
I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
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Where does the Divinity #0 Vans Warped Tour book fit into the list?

I saw DBS mention it a few pages ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:40:14 pm 
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Elveen wrote:
Where does the Divinity #0 Vans Warped Tour book fit into the list?

I saw DBS mention it a few pages ago.


No real clue as to print run. You would need to contact Dinesh or whomever might have handled that specific variant at the event.

Ed Greenberg was at the event, and had a booth next to Valiant so he might know something. I suspect it is sort of like the DMG Promos, in that MOST copies did not survive the event (I mean, concerts are NOT generally the safest place to keep a comic safe), or those that did, are either under some 20 year old’s bed or in their closet in a bag.

I was fortunate enough to score my copy EARLY in the days following the concert. Have NOT seen many since.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:29:13 pm 
I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
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DirtbagSailor wrote:
Elveen wrote:
Where does the Divinity #0 Vans Warped Tour book fit into the list?

I saw DBS mention it a few pages ago.


No real clue as to print run. You would need to contact Dinesh or whomever might have handled that specific variant at the event.

Ed Greenberg was at the event, and had a booth next to Valiant so he might know something. I suspect it is sort of like the DMG Promos, in that MOST copies did not survive the event (I mean, concerts are NOT generally the safest place to keep a comic safe), or those that did, are either under some 20 year old’s bed or in their closet in a bag.

I was fortunate enough to score my copy EARLY in the days following the concert. Have NOT seen many since.


I also have a copy.
But it’s got to be a hard hard book to come by.

Maybe not low printed. But hard to find to make a complete set.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:58:01 am 
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
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Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52:13 pm
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I'd be really interested in knowing how many Punk Mambo #0 1:20s are out there. I was surprised to see just now that the B covers (an order all) are selling for the price of some incentives.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:26:05 am 
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:39:27 am
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Another one for the Store Exclusives list:
https://ultimatecomics.com/2015/04/rare ... iant-ever/


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:39:51 am 
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:39:27 am
Posts: 21947
Location: Indoors
Valiant fan since: Rai #0
Favorite character: Depends on title
Favorite title: Depends on writer
Favorite writer: Depends on artist
Favorite artist: Depends on character
kjjohanson wrote:
I'd be really interested in knowing how many Punk Mambo #0 1:20s are out there. I was surprised to see just now that the B covers (an order all) are selling for the price of some incentives.

I wondered when/if that would happen. There are several Valiant books that sold around 6,000 copies total with B (or C or D) non-incentive covers likely 2,000 or fewer of the non-A cover(s). That's not going to be as rare as a 1:20 variant, but the B cover was "nothing special" and they weren't sought out as the "good one". Usually small print and "overlooked" is the perfect formula for later value. Once retailer supplies are sold, it's extremely hard to bring "overlooked" books back to the general market. Incredible Hulk #377 Third Printing is a perfect example. It's likely there are/were thousands, but they were overlooked or "not as good as another version" and the general distribution of those second-best books into collections as "nothing special" leaves people scratching their heads on when and where they'll find them years later. If no one is looking for them, then it's no problem... but if people need one, the sale prices can begin to reflect the "time invested" in trying to find one cheaper.

In a way, that's why CGC 9.8 books sell for premiums. The book might be worth $5 raw, but if people are having a hard time finding top condition copies, then the "time invested" becomes reflected in the price of high grade CGC slabs. There's nothing to show for it, because it's time, but the ability to complete the task, move on, and chase a different goal is worth a premium to some collectors. Other collectors either (also) pay the "going rate", go for lower grade, or complain that the expensive slab is just a $5 book in a fancy holder. :D


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