"Worst" of Valiant... Worth Reading?

[Benny_Decker]

"Worst" is subjective, but from what I have read online it seems like a few titles are considered by most to be the worst of Valiant, including Dead Drop and Shadowman: End Times.

I am making my way through Valiant with trades, but have not read Shadowman, Eternal Warrior, Rai, or Dead Drop. I have read just about everything else from Valiant ending with the whole Armor Hunters event.

So my question: What do you consider the worst trade or story arc, and is it worth buying and reading? Is it bad, but still important to the overall story of the character or Valiant universe as a whole, or can it be skipped without leaving a hole in the story?

[slack]

I'd say End Times is worth the read. Especially considering recent events regarding The Deadside.

Dead Drop, I'd say leave it alone. So far, nothing that happened in that mini has been used or mentioned in the rest of the valiant universe.

I think you can safely skip the first Eternal Warrior trade. It muddies things. Though I still believe that VEI will eventually make sense of that first arc.

[jmatt]

If you skip Dead Drop, you will understand the Valiant universe better.

[Shadowman99]

If you skip Dead Drop, you will understand the Valiant universe better.

Absolutely true.

[SwiftMann]

Dead Drop

Milligan's work on Shadowman

Anything Eternal Warrior that doesn't start with "Wrath of the..."

Delinquents (and I LOVE A&A) & Q&W Must Die



Personally, I find the following totally skipable to, but milage may vary.

Unity #15-22 (solo issues and War Monger)

Imperium (okay, maybe this one is just to ruffle feathers, but really I find it a useless title)

[Dr Noel]

Personally, I liked Dead Drop, but it's not necessary to read it in order to understand anything.

Along those same lines, you could skip Quantum & Woody and Deliquents (although the first Q&W TPB was funny).

I think a lot of Shadowman will be relevant, but the whole story is really convoluted.

[ShadowTuga]

SUBJECTIVE OPINION AHOY!!!!

Harbinger 1-25.





Seriously, Dead Drop. Avoid it. Run from it. It's very, very bad.

I know that some may question this, but I also "hated" everything Q&W since the Delinquents #1. Haven't read Q2, Giant-Sized or "...must die!". Own the comics, have no interest in reading them whatsoever. So, Delinquents would maybe be a suggestion but I haven't read the whole thing because I really found #1 to be a terrible juvenile joke. I like fart jokes as much as the next guy, but this was too much for a universe that has Harbinger, Imperium and X-O.

I hated "End Times". It killed this version of Shadowman to me. I hated Jack a lot for being such a bad written and developed character. BUT Ninjak's Operation Deadside might save the dude... we could be looking at End Times in a few months as the necessary ugly step to "reach greatness" later.
My 2 cents.

[Dr Noel]

SUBJECTIVE OPINION AHOY!!!!

Harbinger 1-25.





Seriously, Dead Drop. Avoid it. Run from it. It's very, very bad.

I know that some may question this, but I also "hated" everything Q&W since the Delinquents #1. Haven't read Q2, Giant-Sized or "...must die!". Own the comics, have no interest in reading them whatsoever. So, Delinquents would maybe be a suggestion but I haven't read the whole thing because I really found #1 to be a terrible juvenile joke. I like fart jokes as much as the next guy, but this was too much for a universe that has Harbinger, Imperium and X-O.

I hated "End Times". It killed this version of Shadowman to me. I hated Jack a lot for being such a bad written and developed character. BUT Ninjak's Operation Deadside might save the dude... we could be looking at End Times in a few months as the necessary ugly step to "reach greatness" later.
My 2 cents.

I sort of agree with you about Q&W. I think the first story arc managed to parody some racial stereotypes while providing an entertaining story. The giant sized one shot was also okay. Everything else was really juvenile slapstick.

[SwiftMann]

Along those same lines, you could skip Quantum & Woody and Deliquents (although the first Q&W TPB was funny).

I'm no fan of VEI Q&W at all, so I forgot about Q&W Must Die. That's a useless mini too.

I'm actually going to add that to my first post.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

"Worst" is subjective, but from what I have read online it seems like a few titles are considered by most to be the worst of Valiant, including Dead Drop and Shadowman: End Times.

I am making my way through Valiant with trades, but have not read Shadowman, Eternal Warrior, Rai, or Dead Drop. I have read just about everything else from Valiant ending with the whole Armor Hunters event.

So my question: What do you consider the worst trade or story arc, and is it worth buying and reading? Is it bad, but still important to the overall story of the character or Valiant universe as a whole, or can it be skipped without leaving a hole in the story?

Noticed you say you haven't read Rai, which I, and probably everyone else here would recommend you DO do...... (heh, I said do do.)

[dornwolf]

Milligans Shadowmans all right and as mentioned important to the current Ninjak story

I know some have mentioned not bothering with Eternal Warrior. I'd say the second book is kind of important since it does introduce the Eternal Emperor although, everytime he shows up like that now it always seems to be a random points in his history. Like in Rai for example.

[CongoBill]

Personally, I find the following totally skipable to, but milage may vary.

Unity #15-22 (solo issues and War Monger)

Imperium (okay, maybe this one is just to ruffle feathers, but really I find it a useless title)

W-W-W-WHAT???? Imperium???? That is probably my favorite series going these days. I look forward to that and Walking Dead the most!

[Shadowman99]

Personally, I find the following totally skipable to, but milage may vary.

Unity #15-22 (solo issues and War Monger)

Imperium (okay, maybe this one is just to ruffle feathers, but really I find it a useless title)

W-W-W-WHAT???? Imperium???? That is probably my favorite series going these days. I look forward to that and Walking Dead the most!

Absolutely! Best Valiant book on the shelves at the moment!

I know people give the first Eternal Warrior series a lot of flack, but as a standalone kind of thing I enjoyed it a lot Just a shame that it never got tied up really.

[Benny_Decker]

I picked up Shadowman Vol 1 & 2, with Vol 3 & 4 on the way, and Eternal Warrior Vol 1. Enjoying them so far.

I definitely want to pick up Rai before reading the 4000 AD event in trade. I will probably get to Dead Drop too, some day if I ever get caught up with the current releases and have NOTHING else to read. I have a pile of over 20 Valiant trades that I have not read yet, so it might be a while. Not enough hours in the day!

[db8coach]

I, for one did not like the first Dr. Mirage mini. It seemed like it was all over the place and often times I couldn't tell what was going on.

I liked Delinquents and Q&W, but they are absolutely not necessary to the overall Valiant Universe. Dead Drop started strong and then? Its like they didn't know where to go with it so they just ended it.

[Shadowman99]

I, for one did not like the first Dr. Mirage mini. It seemed like it was all over the place and often times I couldn't tell what was going on.

I liked Delinquents and Q&W, but they are absolutely not necessary to the overall Valiant Universe. Dead Drop started strong and then? Its like they didn't know where to go with it so they just ended it.

Dude, are you sure you're reading Valiant comics? Those views are almost 100% contrary to general opinion on the board here, it's like you've been reading something else!

[wwise03]

Dude, are you sure you're reading Valiant comics? Those views are almost 100% contrary to general opinion on the board here, it's like you've been reading something else! [/quote]

I don't think his views are 100% contrary to general opinion at all. He didn't like Dr. Mirage. I thought it was only ok and there are many who didn't like it at all. I agree that it was spittle difficult to follow at times.

I also agree that Quantum and Woody and The Delinquents are not necessary reads in the valiant universe and that dead drop wasn't good.

[Shadowman99]

Dude, are you sure you're reading Valiant comics? Those views are almost 100% contrary to general opinion on the board here, it's like you've been reading something else!

I don't think his views are 100% contrary to general opinion at all. He didn't like Dr. Mirage. I thought it was only ok and there are many who didn't like it at all. I agree that it was spittle difficult to follow at times.

I also agree that Quantum and Woody and The Delinquents are not necessary reads in the valiant universe and that dead drop wasn't good.[/quote]


Fair enough, maybe I just got a different perception of how everyone here found the comic. I thought most people on the forum thought it was pretty damn good all in all I found it easy enough to understand and follow... Anyway, that comment was all in good humour, so apologies if offence was taken

[wwise03]

No offense at all. The only reason I got confused with Dr. Mirage at points was because I read too many books and didn't really sink my teeth into it. I'm actually waiting to read the second arc until all issues are out and I can re-read the first arc.

As for the delinquents, I actually really loved that series (in part because I own stock in Monsanto and the arc made "Mondastando" (or something like that), the bad guy. So I sort of felt like the bad guy when I was reading it haha.

As for the general topic, I agree there is some stuff that you can skip (Dead Drop, the last few arcs of Unity, Q&W, etc), but if you can pick it up cheap, it's all fine and gives you at least a snapshot of the larger tapestry.

Shadowman is definitely worth reading, especially given that it appears he is about to play a bigger role in the universe again.

[Shadowman99]

No offense at all. The only reason I got confused with Dr. Mirage at points was because I read too many books and didn't really sink my teeth into it. I'm actually waiting to read the second arc until all issues are out and I can re-read the first arc.

As for the delinquents, I actually really loved that series (in part because I own stock in Monsanto and the arc made "Mondastando" (or something like that), the bad guy. So I sort of felt like the bad guy when I was reading it haha.

As for the general topic, I agree there is some stuff that you can skip (Dead Drop, the last few arcs of Unity, Q&W, etc), but if you can pick it up cheap, it's all fine and gives you at least a snapshot of the larger tapestry.

Shadowman is definitely worth reading, especially given that it appears he is about to play a bigger role in the universe again.

Ah, that might be the difference then: I seem to recall that I read all four issues of Dr.M over two evenings so it probably flowed a bit better when read concurrently like that. I think your idea to wait until all issues of the new series are out before reading the whole thing through as a whole in a couple of sessions is a good 'un You'll have to let us know how that goes eh?

Monsanto is genuinely absolutely nothing but a 'bad guy' when it comes to environmental issues in real life. Horrible, horrible company. If I had the power I'd shut the whole operation down overnight. Aside from that, I did enjoy the Delinquents. Not necessary reading, but good fun, and that's the point of comics!

I guess that despite people's opinions on the Milligan run on Shadowman or End Times VEI have picked up that ball again and are carrying on directly with it, so that probably doesn't qualify *any* of the Shadowman series so far as 'non-essential reading'.

[leonmallett]

While not the worst title by any stretch, X-O Manowar has included one of the worst story arcs IMHO: Armorines. What should have been a great relaunch for the Armorines concept instead boiled down to a ludicrous and inane plot that went out of fashion perhaps 20 or more years ago, stretching credibility too far, and with a villain that lacked real substantial explanation of how and why he came to be able to commandeer circumstances to his gain in any plausible way.

[whovian]

Dead Drop should have dropped dead in the meeting room. I can see Marvel or DC crapping on their cluttered schedule with a book of its nature, but Valiant needs to keep their slots open for the best material they can create.

[Shadowman99]

Dead Drop should have dropped dead in the meeting room. I can see Marvel or DC crapping on their cluttered schedule with a book of its nature, but Valiant needs to keep their slots open for the best material they can create.

In fairness DBS makes a good point in another thread about Dead Drop: Valiant, like any other company, needs to appeal to as wide a fan base as possible to be successful and stay that way - it's inevitable that the company will try things out in slightly different ways at times to investigate ways of gaining new readers. Guess most of us here on the board didn't really appreciate Dead Drop, but there are probably people out there that enjoyed it and considered checking out other VEI titles because of it