Valiant Announces Five New Series for 2015

[Shadowman99]

Cray_ws, you come to this forum with all your claimed professional experience and you appear to have all the facts, yet you make ridiculous comments that appear to be superb at provoking response.

Take your sixteen posts and *SQUEE* off troll.

[ilzuccone]

I am not so sure the assertion that publishing more than 9 books per month stands up. Compare to other publishers in the 1-2% market share niche and many, if not all, in the bracket above VEI are publishing more per month.

It could be that having a shared universe across all VEI books is a problem, but the argument of the number of books having hit its natural limit does not seem to bear out. Now I hope the shared universe thing is not problematic, but maybe VEI would need to diversify their line in the future. They will eventually have a challenge to bridge the gap between a small shared universe and a larger one - has any line compared to the depth of Crossgen as a loosely shared universe? And even that model ultimately failed for its own reasons.

There are no guarantees of course. But to simply assert that 9 books is the natural limit does not seem to fully embrace the challenges. Sales are apparently sufficiently healthy, and VEI assert they are slightly ahead of their own plans, so maybe another growth spurt is planned for the future; but objectively, what is there to signify that publishing more than 9 books per month would be unhealthy?

the thing is, it's really hard to compare vei with anyone else than marvel and dc. valiant are not selling one new book at a time, like image or dark horse or idw. i mean, you rarely hear about an image book after it passed issue one. and it doesn't mean it doesn't sell well, at all. it's just that it got it's fans, it got it's niche, and either it's working out over time, or it's not. and if it's nearing the unretability, no big harm done. the creators will wrap their story, maybe they won't earn a lot of money on their last issues, but it's up to them, when they wanna finish their book. and then, they can just start a new one after that.
with a shared universe, you always sell the whole experience. sure, there always are stand-out books and outliers, but what you are trying to do as a publisher is to create buzz for your whole line, always. and this is just a much more time- and money consuming endeavor. you have all those crossovers, events, you need to do a lot more pr etc

i mean, there is just no reason to compare valiant to boom (a four person operation) or oni or avatar. they are working at a whole different level. a lower one, mind you. and they have carved their own niche. dynamite only form afar looks like a comparable company, but they're not. they cater to nostalgia-fans, mostly through one-at-a-time-books. sure, they do some shared-universe mini-series from time to time, but really, who cares. either they can sell their licensed properties, and if not, they just stop publishing them and pull out some new (old) ones.

i think if one wants to learn how to succeed at a durable shared universe concept, one should look at the only successful example from the past twenty years (well, maybe since the early 60s): the "mignolaverse". it's extremely stable in sales, mostly appr. 3 books a month. two ongoings plus one, two additional mini series at the most. the storytelling is very good, the artwork is top notch. it's easy to keep up with what's going on in that universe, time- and moneywise. for the publisher it's also much easier to keep track of the line, if they don't have to deliver quantity, but every decision is based on quality. behind the whole thing, there is one master storyteller, mignola himself, who oversees everything and makes sure it's done right, kind of like a showrunner in tv. (does this remind anyone of stan lee in the 60s? jim shooter in the 90s?...)

so, yeah, it's really easy to dilute your "shared-universe" line. look at the countless "dead universes" which faded after a few years time. if a shared-universe line becomes so-and-so, people are leaving. not only one or two books, but the whole line. how often have you read in a forum "i hate spawn and therefore i will just stop buying image forever"? you'll hear this from marvel and dc fans all the time. and now, from valiant fans, too (incl me a year ago), check the comments section here http://comicsbeat.com/indie-month-to-mo ... ll-archie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

keep it small&sexy, leave your fans begging for more. that's the way to go.

i would love to see dysart being made the valiant showrunner. maybe split the responsibilities with lemire (but it looks more and more that kindt got into that position and -sadly- didn't really deliver until now). we are in dire need of a more intense, more cohesive, a more innovative new valiant reading experience for 2015. and those new early 2015 books may be just what it needs to get there...

well said.

[leonmallett]

I am not so sure the assertion that publishing more than 9 books per month stands up. Compare to other publishers in the 1-2% market share niche and many, if not all, in the bracket above VEI are publishing more per month.

It could be that having a shared universe across all VEI books is a problem, but the argument of the number of books having hit its natural limit does not seem to bear out. Now I hope the shared universe thing is not problematic, but maybe VEI would need to diversify their line in the future. They will eventually have a challenge to bridge the gap between a small shared universe and a larger one - has any line compared to the depth of Crossgen as a loosely shared universe? And even that model ultimately failed for its own reasons.

There are no guarantees of course. But to simply assert that 9 books is the natural limit does not seem to fully embrace the challenges. Sales are apparently sufficiently healthy, and VEI assert they are slightly ahead of their own plans, so maybe another growth spurt is planned for the future; but objectively, what is there to signify that publishing more than 9 books per month would be unhealthy?

the thing is, it's really hard to compare vei with anyone else than marvel and dc. valiant are not selling one new book at a time, like image or dark horse or idw. i mean, you rarely hear about an image book after it passed issue one. and it doesn't mean it doesn't sell well, at all. it's just that it got it's fans, it got it's niche, and either it's working out over time, or it's not. and if it's nearing the unretability, no big harm done. the creators will wrap their story, maybe they won't earn a lot of money on their last issues, but it's up to them, when they wanna finish their book. and then, they can just start a new one after that.
with a shared universe, you always sell the whole experience. sure, there always are stand-out books and outliers, but what you are trying to do as a publisher is to create buzz for your whole line, always. and this is just a much more time- and money consuming endeavor. you have all those crossovers, events, you need to do a lot more pr etc

i mean, there is just no reason to compare valiant to boom (a four person operation) or oni or avatar. they are working at a whole different level. a lower one, mind you. and they have carved their own niche. dynamite only form afar looks like a comparable company, but they're not. they cater to nostalgia-fans, mostly through one-at-a-time-books. sure, they do some shared-universe mini-series from time to time, but really, who cares. either they can sell their licensed properties, and if not, they just stop publishing them and pull out some new (old) ones.

i think if one wants to learn how to succeed at a durable shared universe concept, one should look at the only successful example from the past twenty years (well, maybe since the early 60s): the "mignolaverse". it's extremely stable in sales, mostly appr. 3 books a month. two ongoings plus one, two additional mini series at the most. the storytelling is very good, the artwork is top notch. it's easy to keep up with what's going on in that universe, time- and moneywise. for the publisher it's also much easier to keep track of the line, if they don't have to deliver quantity, but every decision is based on quality. behind the whole thing, there is one master storyteller, mignola himself, who oversees everything and makes sure it's done right, kind of like a showrunner in tv. (does this remind anyone of stan lee in the 60s? jim shooter in the 90s?...)

so, yeah, it's really easy to dilute your "shared-universe" line. look at the countless "dead universes" which faded after a few years time. if a shared-universe line becomes so-and-so, people are leaving. not only one or two books, but the whole line. how often have you read in a forum "i hate spawn and therefore i will just stop buying image forever"? you'll hear this from marvel and dc fans all the time. and now, from valiant fans, too (incl me a year ago), check the comments section here http://comicsbeat.com/indie-month-to-mo ... ll-archie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

keep it small&sexy, leave your fans begging for more. that's the way to go.

i would love to see dysart being made the valiant showrunner. maybe split the responsibilities with lemire (but it looks more and more that kindt got into that position and -sadly- didn't really deliver until now). we are in dire need of a more intense, more cohesive, a more innovative new valiant reading experience for 2015. and those new early 2015 books may be just what it needs to get there...

So basically think small, be small is best?

You say there is no reason to compare VEI with anyone; since each publisher has their own unique IP, the same then follows for any and all and is a weak argument objectively.

Image has survived for 20+ years without a sole shared universe. DH longer. I am not sure where you are going with arguing against those, especially as the 'Mignola-verse' sits within DH's publishing.

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

[Shadowman99]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

[leonmallett]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

[kjjohanson]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

Never mind Marvel and DC right now. They have huge corporations behind them. First step should be growing to the point where they're a fixture at #8 in market share; next step overtaking Dynamite and Boom for #6. Anything past that is going to depend on public perception more than VEI's actions, I think.

[leonmallett]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

Never mind Marvel and DC right now. They have huge corporations behind them. First step should be growing to the point where they're a fixture at #8 in market share; next step overtaking Dynamite and Boom for #6. Anything past that is going to depend on public perception more than VEI's actions, I think.

I think I said something along those lines:

they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now

[Ras the future fan]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

Never mind Marvel and DC right now. They have huge corporations behind them. First step should be growing to the point where they're a fixture at #8 in market share; next step overtaking Dynamite and Boom for #6. Anything past that is going to depend on public perception more than VEI's actions, I think.

What number is VEI at right now in terms of market share?

[kjjohanson]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

Never mind Marvel and DC right now. They have huge corporations behind them. First step should be growing to the point where they're a fixture at #8 in market share; next step overtaking Dynamite and Boom for #6. Anything past that is going to depend on public perception more than VEI's actions, I think.

What number is VEI at right now in terms of market share?

They should be just out of the top 10.

[Shadowman99]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

Never mind Marvel and DC right now. They have huge corporations behind them. First step should be growing to the point where they're a fixture at #8 in market share; next step overtaking Dynamite and Boom for #6. Anything past that is going to depend on public perception more than VEI's actions, I think.

I think I said something along those lines:

they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now

Yeah. I also said something along those lines.

...I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day...

[leonmallett]

Yes VEI is not at their levels, but then arguably it won't be unless it expands its output, particularly in the number of titles it produces. I hope they don't take some hipster approach of a boutique level publisher but aim and think bigger.

I'm with the 'mallet on this one. Much as I love being able to pick up every title every month, I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day No hurry, long as they get there in the end!

To get to Marvel and DC, they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now.

Never mind Marvel and DC right now. They have huge corporations behind them. First step should be growing to the point where they're a fixture at #8 in market share; next step overtaking Dynamite and Boom for #6. Anything past that is going to depend on public perception more than VEI's actions, I think.

I think I said something along those lines:

they first need to challenge at a higher level than they are now

Yeah. I also said something along those lines.

...I'd love to see Valiant kicking Marvel's and DC's arses one day...

[cray_ws]

Cray_ws, you come to this forum with all your claimed professional experience and you appear to have all the facts, yet you make ridiculous comments that appear to be superb at provoking response.

Take your sixteen posts and *SQUEE* off troll.

Sorry if you feel like I stepped on your toes. I didn't claim to own all the facts. I feel my 22 years of niche market experience of selling products (ethnic haircare products) directly to salons gives me a fairly good idea what it's like to deal with all that goes on in niche market business. I also have about 35 years of advertising experience with too. Again I'm not claiming to know it all, I was just simply pointing out where my opinions are coming from. I been a comic book reader since the 90's when Image and Valiant started. Depending on how long you been reading comics we've seen many publishers rise and fall in attempt to compete or stay afloat since then. It's even harder today than it was then, and just as good as Valiant is doing now they could be gone in a flash if they don't play their cards right.

I'd be curious to know which of my comments you feel are ridiculous? If there's any provoking I'm doing, it's only for the sake of discussing comics. I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, again if you feel that way I am sorry.

Lastly Shadowman99, I don't take too kindly to name-calling. I didn't come here for that.

I think cray is making a good point. It would be ideal if vei could figure out a way to force the industry to follow their lead.

Thanks for understanding my intentions of my posts.

[Shadowman99]

Cray_ws, you come to this forum with all your claimed professional experience and you appear to have all the facts, yet you make ridiculous comments that appear to be superb at provoking response.

Take your sixteen posts and *SQUEE* off troll.

Sorry if you feel like I stepped on your toes. I didn't claim to own all the facts. I feel my 22 years of niche market experience of selling products (ethnic haircare products) directly to salons gives me a fairly good idea what it's like to deal with all that goes on in niche market business. I also have about 35 years of advertising experience with too. Again I'm not claiming to know it all, I was just simply pointing out where my opinions are coming from. I been a comic book reader since the 90's when Image and Valiant started. Depending on how long you been reading comics we've seen many publishers rise and fall in attempt to compete or stay afloat since then. It's even harder today than it was then, and just as good as Valiant is doing now they could be gone in a flash if they don't play their cards right.

I'd be curious to know which of my comments you feel are ridiculous? If there's any provoking I'm doing, it's only for the sake of discussing comics. I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, again if you feel that way I am sorry.

Lastly Shadowman99, I don't take too kindly to name-calling. I didn't come here for that.

I think cray is making a good point. It would be ideal if vei could figure out a way to force the industry to follow their lead.

Thanks for understanding my intentions of my posts.

I'll say this once: I'm not being baited into any kind of argument to sate your satisfaction at *SQUEE* people off.

I'm not in the least intimidated by your threat.

That's the last I'm saying on this.

[cray_ws]

Cray_ws, you come to this forum with all your claimed professional experience and you appear to have all the facts, yet you make ridiculous comments that appear to be superb at provoking response.

Take your sixteen posts and *SQUEE* off troll.

Sorry if you feel like I stepped on your toes. I didn't claim to own all the facts. I feel my 22 years of niche market experience of selling products (ethnic haircare products) directly to salons gives me a fairly good idea what it's like to deal with all that goes on in niche market business. I also have about 35 years of advertising experience with too. Again I'm not claiming to know it all, I was just simply pointing out where my opinions are coming from. I been a comic book reader since the 90's when Image and Valiant started. Depending on how long you been reading comics we've seen many publishers rise and fall in attempt to compete or stay afloat since then. It's even harder today than it was then, and just as good as Valiant is doing now they could be gone in a flash if they don't play their cards right.

I'd be curious to know which of my comments you feel are ridiculous? If there's any provoking I'm doing, it's only for the sake of discussing comics. I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, again if you feel that way I am sorry.

Lastly Shadowman99, I don't take too kindly to name-calling. I didn't come here for that.

I think cray is making a good point. It would be ideal if vei could figure out a way to force the industry to follow their lead.

Thanks for understanding my intentions of my posts.

I'll say this once: I'm not being baited into any kind of argument to sate your satisfaction at *SQUEE* people off.

I'm not in the least intimidated by your threat.

That's the last I'm saying on this.

I have no idea I was intimidating you, once again I apologize if you think so. I wasn't baiting anyone nor was I looking for satisfaction to do so. I think you're reading into something that's not there. I been kind enough to apologize for anything that could possibly construed as offensive or alienating.