How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories?

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How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories?

Post by yardstick »

Also inspired by that same post in another thread. Please post your opinions.

Cross-posted for reference:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37744&p=811046#p811046" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by BugsySig »

Only as much as necessary to as to not completely disassociate a character from the original. Keep the best and modernize, change or scrap the rest to create the best story.
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by etos45 »

When it comes to key elements and events, I'd like it to stay pretty similar. I want Torque to die, if Pete isn't gay I'd like to see him and Kris together. I can't think of a lot of examples right now, but you get my drift. Anything else, I'm pretty flexible on. They don't have to take the exact path, just call back to it from time to time.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by greg »

etos45 wrote:I want Torque to die
I don't. :sumo:

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by MarrowMan »

At the snails pace the stories are going, Torque won't die till probably issue 133 in 2022
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Daniel Jackson »

greg wrote:
etos45 wrote:I want Torque to die
I don't. :sumo:
I don't either.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by jmatt »

As differently as possible without alienating the fanbase. Can I have that much wiggle room? :lol:

I don't want a rehash of what we've seen before. Gimme new stuff, new villains, new secrets, new organizations.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Paladon »

I was out running around to different stores this weekend and one store owner made an interesting comment that the new stories were exactly the same as the old stories, which is why he was losing interest. I pointed out the differences and told him that they had to start with some basics before they blazed new trails. This seemed to make sense for him.

I think this could be a common sentiment in the marketplace. If the stories are just retreads of the original, then what's the incentive for readers to stay tuned in the next few years? VEI needs to keep thing fresh and contemporary for a new audience.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by BugsySig »

Paladon wrote:I was out running around to different stores this weekend and one store owner made an interesting comment that the new stories were exactly the same as the old stories, which is why he was losing interest. I pointed out the differences and told him that they had to start with some basics before they blazed new trails. This seemed to make sense for him.

I think this could be a common sentiment in the marketplace. If the stories are just retreads of the original, then what's the incentive for readers to stay tuned in the next few years? VEI needs to keep thing fresh and contemporary for a new audience.
This has been my issue with XO, but is also why I am looking forward to issue 4 and then the Ninjak crossover. Those issues should set the status quo for XO in the modern day and is where Vditty can start telling his own stories.

Harbinger has had some similarities, but is really quite different when you break it down. Bloodshot, other than his basic abilities and PRS, is completely different from the original. A&A is only one issue in, and while it follows the same basic premise, there have been some stark differences already.

I guess what I am saying is, I wonder if that guy has actually read the new books or the originals :? Besides, this basic strategy seemed to work for the Ultimate line at Marvel...and what would someone expect from a relaunch of 20 year old books? Scrap everything that made them hits for the sake of change? Let's make XO an alien from the future who crashes on Earth in the past and discovers a primitive suit of medieval armor and becomes a Visigoth war lord! What's Liefeld doing? Get him on art duties...I need pouches! :rant:
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by leonmallett »

BugsySig wrote:Only as much as necessary to as to not completely disassociate a character from the original. Keep the best and modernize, change or scrap the rest to create the best story.
Could not have said it better. :thumb:
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by etos45 »

MarrowMan wrote:At the snails pace the stories are going, Torque won't die till probably issue 133 in 2022
I think that issue #133 would actually be out in 2023... 8-)

In June, I believe... :twisted:

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by etos45 »

Daniel Jackson wrote:
greg wrote:
etos45 wrote:I want Torque to die
I don't. :sumo:
I don't either.
IMHO Torque was always a throw away character. The only real influence he had in the book was him dying and I think it should stay that way. That being said, I won't :!: :rant: :!: if Valiant decides to do something with him.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by greg »

etos45 wrote:
MarrowMan wrote:At the snails pace the stories are going, Torque won't die till probably issue 133 in 2022
I think that issue #133 would actually be out in 2023... 8-)

In June, I believe... :twisted:
I almost posted something to that effect... then I decided it would make me look too dorky. :twisted:

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by etos45 »

greg wrote:
etos45 wrote:
MarrowMan wrote:At the snails pace the stories are going, Torque won't die till probably issue 133 in 2022
I think that issue #133 would actually be out in 2023... 8-)

In June, I believe... :twisted:
I almost posted something to that effect... then I decided it would make me look too dorky. :twisted:
:lol: Let's just say I have a lot of time on my hands right now... :D

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by kevinbastos »

I don't think they should follow the original storyline.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Dr. Solar »

I don't want stories repeated.

I don't mind if some of the new stories rhyme with classic stories though.
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Chiclo »

etos45 wrote:
MarrowMan wrote:At the snails pace the stories are going, Torque won't die till probably issue 133 in 2022
I think that issue #133 would actually be out in 2023... 8-)

In June, I believe... :twisted:
Is this a Deathmate joke?

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Newton »

I think if they continue the course they have set with the current books they will be fine.

X-O's origin is one of the more interesting ones and really defines the character so I am okay that a lot of the early beats are the same for that book.

I expect Harbinger to have a lot of the same beats up until they band gets back together again. That said, Joshua has found a lot of 'new' to bring to the story already.

Bloodshot and A&A have been changed in some interesting ways that are exciting while, so far, maintaining the heart and soul of the characters.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by BugsySig »

Newton wrote:I think if they continue the course they have set with the current books they will be fine.

X-O's origin is one of the more interesting ones and really defines the character so I am okay that a lot of the early beats are the same for that book.

I expect Harbinger to have a lot of the same beats up until they band gets back together again. That said, Joshua has found a lot of 'new' to bring to the story already.

Bloodshot and A&A have been changed in some interesting ways that are exciting while, so far, maintaining the heart and soul of the characters.
Well put. +1.
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Tim »

Hard to say for me and nothing will please everyone.

I'd be cool with certain changes (I think the "Harada as good guy / Pete as bad guy" angle I mentioned in an earlier thread is an intriguing idea) and *SQUEE* about other ones (Faith not being a big girl, for example). It's all based on my personal opinion and I think Valiant's job of doing something to please the most people and still be innovative and creative is a task I do not envy.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by grendeljd »

All 4 titles to date are starting off doing varying degrees of origin stories... to me, that is the kind of material that needs to hold closest to the same details &/or 'spirit' of the original characters. Assuming they will (and have) cast aside some of the, *ahem* poorer elements of the 90's versions, this still means we are getting a higher ratio of similarity to what went before.

I'd expect to see each title begin to branch off from the source and blossom into something new as we get into the second/third/etc story arcs. At that point just having the odd touchstone to VH1 would be appropriate, but not to a point where it makes the story feel predictable.

Kind of like the discussion about whether Orb Industries should be integral to XO, elsewhere on the boards... I think it would be great if there is an Orb Industries Corporation in that book (or any Valiant book, really), but I don't need to read about Aric running it (again) as he did in VH1.
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by MarkRoseHFX »

screw the VH1 canon that stuff died years ago. they're making great books that's all I care about.
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by erwinrafael »

BugsySig wrote:
Paladon wrote:I was out running around to different stores this weekend and one store owner made an interesting comment that the new stories were exactly the same as the old stories, which is why he was losing interest. I pointed out the differences and told him that they had to start with some basics before they blazed new trails. This seemed to make sense for him.

I think this could be a common sentiment in the marketplace. If the stories are just retreads of the original, then what's the incentive for readers to stay tuned in the next few years? VEI needs to keep thing fresh and contemporary for a new audience.
This has been my issue with XO, but is also why I am looking forward to issue 4 and then the Ninjak crossover. Those issues should set the status quo for XO in the modern day and is where Vditty can start telling his own stories.

Harbinger has had some similarities, but is really quite different when you break it down. Bloodshot, other than his basic abilities and PRS, is completely different from the original. A&A is only one issue in, and while it follows the same basic premise, there have been some stark differences already.

I guess what I am saying is, I wonder if that guy has actually read the new books or the originals :? Besides, this basic strategy seemed to work for the Ultimate line at Marvel...and what would someone expect from a relaunch of 20 year old books? Scrap everything that made them hits for the sake of change? Let's make XO an alien from the future who crashes on Earth in the past and discovers a primitive suit of medieval armor and becomes a Visigoth war lord! What's Liefeld doing? Get him on art duties...I need pouches! :rant:
Well, based from the advanced reviews already posted online, it looks like the step to a different direction will indeed happen in X-O #4. I think some would hate it, but I like it because I did not really appreciate the more "comedic" aspects of X-O in its first incarnation.

As I said before, Venditti really did good in not deviating much from the original origin (X-O Manowar #0) because that origin story is already perfect, much like Spider-Man's origin should not really be changed much. But there are some changes already: 1) Gafti's death gives Aric more emotional fuel, 2) the Vine is more interesting as a group than the Spider Aliens specially the priests vs. soldiers dynamic, 3) the explanation of how the Vine planted deep cover agents was explained, 4) Aric's desire to go home specially due to his longing for Dreire was more emphasized.

On another note, I think old fans would actually be contradicting themselves on this issue because they always have the originals as their reference point. They would demand something new but will harp on issues like why van Lente would change the order of birth of the Eternal siblings, why Archer is a caricature of the extreme American right (discounting that the original Archer was a caricature of Buddhists amalagamated with New Age practitioners), why the origin of the immortal life of the brothers need to be explained, why there are no though bubbles and captions, why there is no Map Giver, why nanites are called goldies, etc. And it's perfectly understandable given the old fans' attachment to the characters.

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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by BugsySig »

erwinrafael wrote:
BugsySig wrote:
Paladon wrote:I was out running around to different stores this weekend and one store owner made an interesting comment that the new stories were exactly the same as the old stories, which is why he was losing interest. I pointed out the differences and told him that they had to start with some basics before they blazed new trails. This seemed to make sense for him.

I think this could be a common sentiment in the marketplace. If the stories are just retreads of the original, then what's the incentive for readers to stay tuned in the next few years? VEI needs to keep thing fresh and contemporary for a new audience.
This has been my issue with XO, but is also why I am looking forward to issue 4 and then the Ninjak crossover. Those issues should set the status quo for XO in the modern day and is where Vditty can start telling his own stories.

Harbinger has had some similarities, but is really quite different when you break it down. Bloodshot, other than his basic abilities and PRS, is completely different from the original. A&A is only one issue in, and while it follows the same basic premise, there have been some stark differences already.

I guess what I am saying is, I wonder if that guy has actually read the new books or the originals :? Besides, this basic strategy seemed to work for the Ultimate line at Marvel...and what would someone expect from a relaunch of 20 year old books? Scrap everything that made them hits for the sake of change? Let's make XO an alien from the future who crashes on Earth in the past and discovers a primitive suit of medieval armor and becomes a Visigoth war lord! What's Liefeld doing? Get him on art duties...I need pouches! :rant:
Well, based from the advanced reviews already posted online, it looks like the step to a different direction will indeed happen in X-O #4. I think some would hate it, but I like it because I did not really appreciate the more "comedic" aspects of X-O in its first incarnation.

As I said before, Venditti really did good in not deviating much from the original origin (X-O Manowar #0) because that origin story is already perfect, much like Spider-Man's origin should not really be changed much. But there are some changes already: 1) Gafti's death gives Aric more emotional fuel, 2) the Vine is more interesting as a group than the Spider Aliens specially the priests vs. soldiers dynamic, 3) the explanation of how the Vine planted deep cover agents was explained, 4) Aric's desire to go home specially due to his longing for Dreire was more emphasized.

On another note, I think old fans would actually be contradicting themselves on this issue because they always have the originals as their reference point. They would demand something new but will harp on issues like why van Lente would change the order of birth of the Eternal siblings, why Archer is a caricature of the extreme American right (discounting that the original Archer was a caricature of Buddhists amalagamated with New Age practitioners), why the origin of the immortal life of the brothers need to be explained, why there are no though bubbles and captions, why there is no Map Giver, why nanites are called goldies, etc. And it's perfectly understandable given the old fans' attachment to the characters.
I think what I was trying to say-- before I got caught up in a rant about an idiotic statement by an LCS employee -- is similar to Gredeljd's post. Origin stories are basically going to be the same (or follow similar themes and major plot points at the least). But to make a blanket statement that they are the same stories as what VALIANT did 20 years ago shows how little one knows either about the relaunch or the originals.
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Re: How parallel to VH1 canon should VEI write their stories

Post by Hatiko »

I didn't read much VH1 at all (like 3 issues in total) but I did read Shadowman 1 and I don't think they are doing "Jazz player gets seduced by crazy demon lady and fights cannibals using saxophone playing skills"


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