Archer and Armstrong #1 discussion thread

[erwinrafael]

And despite the calamitous floods, the comics shipment still arrived! Good thing my backpack is waterproof.

Fun issue. I think more laughs would come in the next installment once they operate as a pair. I like the introduction of the Mary-Maria character, she may figure prominently in future installments. And I like the conspiracy angles. When the George Washington - freemason connection was brought up, I was laughing at the tounge-in-cheek ridiculousness of all the conspiracies tying up into a bigger tapestry of conspiracies.

A good advice is to skip all previews. I think the comic would read better if I did not read the bar scene over at CBR.

[orbitalshift]

After reading all the reviews I had really high hopes for this book.

Clayton Henry's art is superb. That's about all I can say thats positive.

I didn't think it was funny or even interesting. After how good the other books have been, I'm kinda shocked by how much I didn't like this one. I didn't expect the dialog to seem so contrived and the characters were really just unrealistic caricatures. So much so, I couldn't buy into the story. The irony of my two most favorite characters from the original Valiant universe becoming my least favorite of the new Valiant is interesting to me. It seems very well received by the majority of reviewers. Clearly I'm not the intended audience. I even thought the nod to Flo and Andy was painful.

I'm not sure what effect having a book like this, as the back bone of the Valiant universe will be. To me it kind of undermines the real world feel of the other titles. I'm sure Dinesh and company have a broader plan, and maybe this will be a more reasonable book as it goes forward. Somehow from the interviews, I doubt it.

Maybe it will improve or maybe it will grow on me, I hope so. I'll continue to buy it to support Valiant, but this is not any where close to the book I had hoped for.

Sorry to be a downer here, but I'm sure there will be, and have been many glowing reviews. Just wanted give a different perspective.

[tevans333]

After reading all the reviews I had really high hopes for this book.

Clayton Henry's art is superb. That's about all I can say thats positive.

I didn't think it was funny or even interesting. After how good the other books have been, I'm kinda shocked by how much I didn't like this one. I didn't expect the dialog to seem so contrived and the characters were really just unrealistic caricatures. So much so, I couldn't buy into the story. The irony of my two most favorite characters from the original Valiant universe becoming my least favorite of the new Valiant is interesting to me. It seems very well received by the majority of reviewers. Clearly I'm not the intended audience. I even thought the nod to Flo and Andy was painful.

I'm not sure what effect having a book like this, as the back bone of the Valiant universe will be. To me it kind of undermines the real world feel of the other titles. I'm sure Dinesh and company have a broader plan, and maybe this will be a more reasonable book as it goes forward. Somehow from the interviews, I doubt it.

Maybe it will improve or maybe it will grow on me, I hope so. I'll continue to buy it to support Valiant, but this is not any where close to the book I had hoped for.

Sorry to be a downer here, but I'm sure there will be, and have been many glowing reviews. Just wanted give a different perspective.

Ditto, was a boring and painful read. Unfortunate since this was also my favorite title from the original universe. Hopefully it picks up now that they have introduced the characters.

[depluto]

I guess I am just predisposed to like this stuff, because I thought it was a decent read. Not as good as the original, but I'm looking forward to next month. Like the other No. 1s there didn't seem to be much to the story since they were laying down groundwork.

I thought Archer had an interesting hook, it felt kind of like Anathem when they went outside the gates. But he doesn't come across as all that innocent, just a bit of an *SQUEE*.

[depluto]

And despite the calamitous floods, the comics shipment still arrived! Good thing my backpack is waterproof.

You're in the Phillipines, right? I saw some pics, that looks crazy!

[BugsySig]

Wow. I think the majority of negative feelings toward this book are going to come from those who we're the biggest fans of the original series. It will always be hard to compete with something one feels so strongly about and personally connected to. So I understand where those people are coming from.

Personally, I really liked the issue. This issue, like the original #0, focused on introducing us to Archer. Armstrong enters the equation in much the same manner as the original as well, toward the end, just in time to be attacked and captured by the Sect. What we are missing is the Eastern learning of Archer (which I think works better in this incarnation, tying him closer to the sect...and I believe it may come eventually anyway) and the street bum nature of Armstrong (more of a drunken, disenchanted poet here...time will tell if that is an improvement).

As far as the laughs, I laughed out loud 4 or 5 times (a big no-prize if you can guess what those were), which I think says a lot. It's not a comedy book, but has comedic elements. As the two work together more, I expect the laughs to increase, but was happy with what was there in this issue. "Liberal Marxist Atheist Nazis"!?! Come on, that's hilarious.

I also thought there were a lot more nods to the original than some here are giving credit for. Archer's journal was a key element of the original that was introduced right away here. Aram's references to hanging out with famous historical figures and attending historical events was there. The nod to Flo and Andy was a nice Easter egg to old school fans, and Archer's comment leads me to believe he will be seeing them eventually.

As far as being gross charicatures...go back and read the original. Archer as a Harry Chrishna lookalike and a fat, slovenly bum? If anything they have been toned down by FVL. I can understand other complaints about the character changes, but that one doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

Also of note, VEI listened to my complaints and included the preview pages as part of the digital purchase. So I got the same book as if I bought the floppy...which I should when paying the same price. Good job VALIANT!

[MarrowMan]

I loved the Homage to Arams VH1 Dinosaur Flo and wife, Andromeda (Andy) on page 12! that was awesome.

I really enjoyed this issue, I thought it was fun and funny just like the original. Everything's not the same, but that's okay, you want the same? Go read the original series, I like new.

[tchalla8]

What can I say? This was the weakest of the bunch. I things there's plenty of time to make it better, but as a kick start this one just kinda fizzled. I think it tried too hard to imitate the original in some ways. The humor felt forced. The overly satirical nature of some of their depictions left me personally uncomfortable in places. These are two of my favorite characters though, so I'm hoping they can turn things around.

The art was nice though

[greg]

I enjoyed it... loved the reference to Flo and Andy...
You guys who are (thankfully) spared from the young-earth creationist propaganda
probably don't realize how much of the theme park is NOT satire.

There was a billboard on the interstate in my area declaring evolution/science a lie with a 1-800 number for "truth".
They might as well put up a billboard about how the Sun actually goes around the Earth.

The title of issue #1 should be "Poe's Law".

Did anyone else think the little boy "Rush" at the start of the theme park story looked like Bobby Hill?
That's strange because we've already talked about how the kid on the cover of Harbinger #4 looks like Bobby Hill.
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/issue.asp?cn=1425" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Same kid? Unlikely... but weird.

Nice to see Dinesh's name in the list of "brothers and sisters"... also noticed the last one is "Barry"... nice nod to BWS.

I also liked how the fulcrum of the Boon pointed to Armstrong, but the biker guy (back of his jacket) was in the way so Archer thought the biker guy was he who must not be named.

Flipping Bullcorn!

[BugsySig]

Nice to see Dinesh's name in the list of "brothers and sisters"... also noticed the last one is "Barry"... nice nod to BWS.

Flippin' Bullcorn!

And possibly a shout out to "Suri" Cruise.

By the way, same billboard in Hartford near me, and many students in my school regularly argue with their science teachers over evolution.

[greg]

The names of the "brothers and sisters" indicate their country of origin... which matches their fighting styles.

They were most likely raised by Sect members in each country, to be warriors, and sent to the theme park when they were ready to join the group.
Possibly, they were all raised specifically to be opponents for Archer, since they're all younger.

Once Archer's ability was discovered, the Sect may have decided to create/raise a "training family" of the martial arts from each region.

Since no "branch" of the Sect had ever succeeded in killing Armstrong, perhaps they believe they'll stop Armstrong using a combined offense from all parts of the planet... all combined in Archer's skill.

[Zaphod]

A&A (the first 12 at least) has always been my favorite run, period. I enjoyed the book a lot. Archer's journal was a really nice nod to the original. Though the betrayal of Archer by his parents wasn't nearly as powerful as the original, Armstrong still felt like Armstrong to me.

I wondered if the boy, Rush was supposed to be a nod to Rush Limbaugh but I did chuckle at the cameo of Andy and Flo.

Good read, I'm looking forward to more.

[greg]

A couple more thoughts after listening to the OTV commentary...

The fulcrum that Mrs. Archer gives to Obadiah is from her satchel. She pulls it out of her purse... not sure why that's funny to me...
but a piece of the Boon, dismantled by Aram, is in a satchel. Not Armstrong's. Archer's (mom's purse).

The 1% are wearing "George Washington wigs"... symbolic of their metaphorical leader, right?

The back of their heads certainly look like George Washington... but George Washington looks like... IVAR! (Check the artwork.)

What if Ivar is behind the Sect, and always has been...?
What if George Washington actually wore an "Ivar wig" when he was President?
Ivar wanting to re-assemble the Boon... and actually wanting to kill Aram all this time?

[KXXX]

I liked it

One of his brothers was 'Bort.' Tell me that's anything BUT a Simpsons reference.

[Dr. Solar]

The back of their heads certainly look like George Washington... but George Washington looks like... IVAR! (Check the artwork.)

Whoa. Mind Blown. I'm gonna have to check it out when I get my hardcopy. I've been working from a low-resolution advance review copy.

[Savant]

Like all the Valiant titles, it remains to be seen how good each book truly is, but I enjoyed this issue.

There was good characterization, sub-plots, and I'm interested to see what happens next.....The only characters I found to be caricatures were perhaps the wig-wearing elite, at the end, and Archer's parents. It wasn't overt enough to ruin the book in any way, though, so I have no complaints.

As far as the comedic elements go, I didn't laugh at anything, but I was mildly amused.

So far, the only Valiant title I'm not sure on is Bloodshot. I'm giving that one another issue to more accurately gauge whether I'd like to keep reading it or not.

Everything else by the new version of Valiant, so far, has been excellent.

[Dr. Solar]

I really liked this issue. As much as the other three books.

It's got so much going on, not just in story, but in tone.

The first 5 pages are deadly serious.

Archer's amusement park training grounds are a quirky, ridiculous parody.

Archer's spiritual musings when he arrives in New York are touchingly honest.

The Bar fight(s) are rollicking fun.

The end is strange, and tragic, and silly, and deadly, all at once.

[erwinrafael]

And despite the calamitous floods, the comics shipment still arrived! Good thing my backpack is waterproof.

You're in the Phillipines, right? I saw some pics, that looks crazy!

yep. and the rain is still falling. this despite there being no storms / typhoons.

Maybe Fred Van Lente would include the climate change conspiracy in future issues. LOL

As far as being gross charicatures...go back and read the original. Archer as a Harry Chrishna lookalike and a fat, slovenly bum? If anything they have been toned down by FVL. I can understand other complaints about the character changes, but that one doesn't make sense to me, sorry

Exactly. How one can complain about caricatures in this version but not see caricatures in the original is just strange to say the least.

[caxiotis]

After reading all the reviews I had really high hopes for this book.

Clayton Henry's art is superb. That's about all I can say thats positive.

I didn't think it was funny or even interesting. After how good the other books have been, I'm kinda shocked by how much I didn't like this one. I didn't expect the dialog to seem so contrived and the characters were really just unrealistic caricatures. So much so, I couldn't buy into the story. The irony of my two most favorite characters from the original Valiant universe becoming my least favorite of the new Valiant is interesting to me. It seems very well received by the majority of reviewers. Clearly I'm not the intended audience. I even thought the nod to Flo and Andy was painful.

I'm not sure what effect having a book like this, as the back bone of the Valiant universe will be. To me it kind of undermines the real world feel of the other titles. I'm sure Dinesh and company have a broader plan, and maybe this will be a more reasonable book as it goes forward. Somehow from the interviews, I doubt it.

Maybe it will improve or maybe it will grow on me, I hope so. I'll continue to buy it to support Valiant, but this is not any where close to the book I had hoped for.

Sorry to be a downer here, but I'm sure there will be, and have been many glowing reviews. Just wanted give a different perspective.

Ditto, was a boring and painful read. Unfortunate since this was also my favorite title from the original universe. Hopefully it picks up now that they have introduced the characters.

I am sorry to say that I was also not very impressed with this issue and i loved the original series (harbinger and A&A were my two original favorites), but something was off with this book. The inital things that bother me were the 1% and the Armstrong character.

My favorite attribute about the VH1 Armstrong was that he was a drunk, who did not care about what was going on, and said weird things from time to time. I did not get that vibe from the Armstrong in the new series. I will have to reread the issue to get into specifics.

Also, the whole 1% thing with "Greed is Godly" just didn't do it for me.

I did really like the homage to VH1 with the dinosaur "Flo" and "Andromeda." I also like the Archer character as being naive.

Anyway, I am glad to hear that some of you liked it and I will keep reading at this point because I love VALIANT (and am hoping that it gets better for me).

[BugsySig]

A couple more thoughts after listening to the OTV commentary...

The fulcrum that Mrs. Archer gives to Obadiah is from her satchel. She pulls it out of her purse... not sure why that's funny to me...
but a piece of the Boon, dismantled by Aram, is in a satchel. Not Armstrong's. Archer's (mom's purse).

The 1% are wearing "George Washington wigs"... symbolic of their metaphorical leader, right?

The back of their heads certainly look like George Washington... but George Washington looks like... IVAR! (Check the artwork.)

What if Ivar is behind the Sect, and always has been...?
What if George Washington actually wore an "Ivar wig" when he was President?
Ivar wanting to re-assemble the Boon... and actually wanting to kill Aram all this time?

I'm the Easter egg/conspiracy vein...Can anyone read the writing under the "Heathen Cultures" sign next to the exhibit Rush is looking at? It looks like it may be Latin, but it is hard to tell. I am thinking it says the same thing as the narration from Genesis, but it's worth a look if it can be translated.

[MarrowMan]

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

In publishing and graphic design, lorem ipsum is standard placeholder text used to demonstrate the graphic elements of a document or visual presentation, such as font, typography, and layout. Lorem ipsum also serves as placeholder text in mock-ups of visual design projects before the actual words are inserted into the finished product. When used in this manner, it is often called greeking.

[BugsySig]

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

In publishing and graphic design, lorem ipsum is standard placeholder text used to demonstrate the graphic elements of a document or visual presentation, such as font, typography, and layout. Lorem ipsum also serves as placeholder text in mock-ups of visual design projects before the actual words are inserted into the finished product. When used in this manner, it is often called greeking.

Wow! Awesome job. It definitely has some meaning for the book. Reminds me of Aram.

[Tim]

LOVED IT!

So far it's my second favorite Valiant series (Harbinger being my favorite). Artwork was stellar and the first issue really has me wanting more. I thought the pacing was perfect and Van Lente's humor was more subtle that I'd expected from him which was perfect.

I'm not good at reviewing things, so I'll leave it at that, but I really did enjoy this book.

And while I'm on it....it's a GREAT feeling to be in 2012, reading two DC books, 3 Marvel books and FOUR VALIANT TITLES!!!!

WHOOOO!!!!

[MarrowMan]

^I was thinking that too.

Live for 10k years, and countless wars and adventures, I'd drink non-stop too.

[MarrowMan]

I was reading 2 DC books, but they decided to CANCEL Resurrection Man, so now it's down to just Animal Man for me. Aside from that I get a handful of Image titles, and ALL the Valiant Books. The stories have barely begun, so I'm in for the long haul.

It's funny, by the time X-O #3 in the VH1 came along Aric had killed at least 600,000,000 Spider Aliens. By #3 in the new VEU, He's killed but a handful.

I loved This new Archer & Armstrong Book, I think it can only get better.