Second Life of Valiant Comics? - An Article

[MoonChild]

part Three anyone!?

[Geomancer]

As bad as it has been with having no Valiant for years – one benefit has been the freedom to imagine what a revitalized Valiant would be like.

So what happens when that changes and Valiant returns in force, publishing new stories?

A key quote from the article:

As much as I love the core fans—we would need to be able to speak to a tremendous number of people with a relaunch of the Valiant universe.

A general comment relating to similar circumstances to those VEI faces now:

"We had to find the core messages, values and style of each of these major brands in order to work with them in such a way that they can be grown into something that's still recognizable to the fans, and yet extendable to all media: comic books, video games, novels, toys, animated and live-action movies.

Granted, these are one person’s opinion – that of Jeff Gomez. But my own and each of our particular individual hopes aside, is that so unrealistic?

Is it possible that the more specific someone’s vision of what form a return of Valiant should take [or has to take] – the more likely they are to be disappointed?

Its proven to be hard enough to do even when someone is one of the writers, or even editor in chief.

My point in writing this is asking to what degree is some of the support we see here for Valiant’s return based upon very specific expectations? Perhaps one or more of us is lucky enough to see everything unfold exactly the way we pictured it. But how often does that happen with anything?

Two years after a full blown Valiant return, how many of us will be here? How many of us will see this as being closer to VH2 than VH1 and be bitterly awaiting our particular vision to materialize?

Are some people setting themselves up for an inevitable and harsh disappointment?

The Valiant characters being stuck in limbo has allowed us to become editors-in-chief of our own individual versions of the Valiant Universe. How hard will it be to have to let go of this and become fans once more?

For my part, I've tried to avoid getting too specific. Or separating what "I'd like to see" from "what has to happen." I don't know how succesful I've been wit this. Or maybe I know I'm just not that lucky and can't expect all the stars to align exactly as I would like them too.

But one thing I have learned with active publishing companies -- you get a mix of excitement and disappointment. And you have to come to terms with how you're going to deal with that - the sooner, the better

[ManofTheAtom]

My preferences are for no reboots and for VEI to respect what's come before.

So far, with the new short stories, they've proven that that is exactly what they intend to do. Hopefully whoever they hire to guide the publishing side of the universe will continue that.

All I know is that what happens in the comics does NOT need to affect how the concept is translated into other media.

If Barry Allen could have his own TV show three years after he died in the comics, then Jack Boniface could have his own movie completely independant of what happened to him in the comics.

[Geomancer]

Those are definitely workable parameters.

[My thoughts had actually drifted to this question based on thoughts from sports boards that i'm active on.]

Hopefully the lesson learned was that a re-imagining such as VH2 will enjoy a similiar level of support that the VIP pamphlet did.

Indications are that the original material will definitely be respected.

But until I hear the Gold Key properties have been secured and who emerges as the editor in chief, I have to remain prepared for the possibility of some form of reboot.

[ManofTheAtom]

Those are definitely workable parameters.

[My thoughts had actually drifted to this question based on thoughts from sports boards that i'm active on.]

Hopefully the lesson learned was that a re-imagining such as VH2 will enjoy a similiar level of support that the VIP pamphlet did.

Indications are that the original material will definitely be respected.

But until I hear the Gold Key properties have been secured and who emerges as the editor in chief, I have to remain prepared for the possibility of some form of reboot.

For me, VEI definitely started on the right foot with the Harbinger HC and the new story.

If it is symbolic of their entire outlook to the publishing side, they have my vote.

Ideally, they'll hardcover everything up to Unity #1 and then start the new universe, starting 10 years after it ended, but continue collecting everything that came before.

[Geomancer]

That seems to be the simplest path to me, too.

Reprinting up to Unity provides enough material to estabish Valiant's tone - but not too much to bury new readers.

Where and how to pick up the narrative will be the most interesting and looming question for me.

[ManofTheAtom]

That seems to be the simplest path to me, too.

Reprinting up to Unity provides enough material to estabish Valiant's tone - but not too much to bury new readers.

Where and how to pick up the narrative will be the most interesting and looming question for me.

Exactly.

Let's face it, fact is that they don't need to publish new material (at least I don't think they do), they may just need to keep the original material in trade in order to retain the copyrights and trademarks (look at Disney with how they're handling Crossgen, which they recently allowed Checker to collect in tradepaperbacks).

Big picture-wise, the publishing side of the equation is relatively minor when compared to the overall goal, which is to produce multimedia adaptations, like movies, tv shows, and toons... so, hopefully, VEI will publish comics that will not only appeal to the audience that was either nonexistance or too young a decade ago as well as appeal to fans who were there.

[Geomancer]

Thats the problem with mutli-media tie ins to comics.

More often than not they seem to limit the potential of comics. And thats mostly because publishers seem to feel the audience will get confused by differences between on screen and printed versions.

But who are these fans who get confused? Does catering to them ever pay off?

Comic book readers lose interest in series that have no forward momentum or depth because they have to stay in synch with on screen versions. Fans of onscreen versions that would get put off by differences in the printed medium do not seem to translate into long term comic book readers anyway.

[ManofTheAtom]

Thats the problem with mutli-media tie ins to comics.

More often than not they seem to limit the potential of comics. And thats mostly because publishers seem to feel the audience will get confused by differences between on screen and printed versions.

But who are these fans who get confused? Does catering to them ever pay off?

Comic book readers lose interest in series that have no forward momentum or depth because they have to stay in synch with on screen versions. Fans of onscreen versions that would get put off by differences in the printed medium do not seem to translate into long term comic book readers anyway.

Exactly right, which is why VEI has to approach the comic books from a different side than they will approach the movies.

Look at Hulk/Incredible Hulk and Batman/Batman Begins.

In the time those movies came out, the comics have continued to tell their own tales that are independant from the movie franchise, while the franchise (which starts with the movies and moves on to cartoons) has gone through a reboot.

Same goes for Spider-Man.

The four movies are self contained, the comics are self contained, and in the time the movies came out he had two completely unrelated cartoons, the 3D version on MTV and the new one, Spectacular Spider-Man, on The CW.

A "successful" multimedia franchise is one that can sustain itself across multiple platforms WITHOUT negatively affecting each adaptation.

Just like Spider-Man can have four movies, four comic book series, and two cartoons that are all completely unrelated to one another, the same can happen with the VALIANT characters.

[JustCallMeAric]

I think that the Valiant characters are too complex for the big screen. If they try to do it I think we will all be disappointed.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think that the Valiant characters are too complex for the big screen. If they try to do it I think we will all be disappointed.

I disagree.

Focusing solely on the VALIANT characters, this is how I see them across media.

Movie franchise

Bloodshot
Eternal Warrior
Ninjak
Shadowman
X-O Manowar

Cartoon franchise

Armorines
Geomancer
Psi-Lords
Rai
Secret Weapons
The Visitor

Live Action TV show franchise

Archer & Armstrong
HARD Corps
Harbinger
The Second Life of Dr Mirage
Timewalker

[Zaphod]

I think I've figured out why Valiant/Acclaim went down hill so quickly.

"I was working in the same office as the girlfriend of then-President of Valiant/Acclaim Comics Steve Massarsky," I explained to the audience. "Next thing I knew, I got an interview with new Editor-in-Chief Fabian Nicieza. When I told him of my goal to become a comic book writer, he said 'my condolences,' and proceeded to list all the downsides to the industry in an attempt to both discourage and protect me. But I was determined to stick with the comic biz no matter what—and several months later, I became an Acclaim assistant-editor."

If it took me 10 months to go from french fry technician to Junior CEO at McDonalds there might be a problem with the golden arches upcoming too.

[greg]

I think I've figured out why Valiant/Acclaim went down hill so quickly.

"I was working in the same office as the girlfriend of then-President of Valiant/Acclaim Comics Steve Massarsky," I explained to the audience. "Next thing I knew, I got an interview with new Editor-in-Chief Fabian Nicieza. When I told him of my goal to become a comic book writer, he said 'my condolences,' and proceeded to list all the downsides to the industry in an attempt to both discourage and protect me. But I was determined to stick with the comic biz no matter what—and several months later, I became an Acclaim assistant-editor."

If it took me 10 months to go from french fry technician to Junior CEO at McDonalds there might be a problem with the golden arches upcoming too.

I thought "Acclaim assistant-editor" was the same as french fry technician.

[Phoenix8008]

I think that the Valiant characters are too complex for the big screen. If they try to do it I think we will all be disappointed.

I disagree.

Focusing solely on the VALIANT characters, this is how I see them across media.

Movie franchise

Bloodshot
Eternal Warrior
Ninjak
Shadowman
X-O Manowar

Cartoon franchise

Armorines
Psi-Lords
Rai
Secret Weapons
The Visitor

Live Action TV show franchise

Archer & Armstrong
HARD Corps
Harbinger
The Second Life of Dr Mirage
Timewalker

Wow! You've either been thinking about that for a while or you came up with a very good list with things placed in very good formats in my opinion. Solo characters in the movies with good special effects/stunt action. Slightly more kid friendly or cartoonish characters/teams for the animated stuff. And the more humorous/drama filled teams/serial natured time travel stories for live action TV. Great selections! Then the real fun could start as they work in corssovers between characters/teams into each others formats!

As much as I really hope to see good old VH1 style Valiant comics again, I have to say it would be even better to get comics AND movies/cartoons/TV shows!

Lets not forget Video games though:
First Person Shooters- Bloodshot, Eternal Warrior, Ninjak, X-O maybe?

You could also go kinda RPG ish with Harbinger/HARD Corps/Secret Weapons unlocking new team members and increasing powers etc.

[ManofTheAtom]

Then the real fun could start as they work in corssovers between characters/teams into each others formats!

Definitely.

We've already seen a TV universe of sorts forming across the different Bruckheimer shows and the Law & Order shows.

We've seen characters from CSI crossover into that franchise as well as Cold Case and Without a Trace, and the L&O universe shares characters from different shows.

Similar crossovers took place between the various David E Kelly shows, where we saw characters from the Practice in McBeal, or in Gideon's Crossing, etc.

Crossovers between the various VALIANT tv shows would not be that hard to do.

As much as I really hope to see good old VH1 style Valiant comics again, I have to say it would be even better to get comics AND movies/cartoons/TV shows!

Yeah!

Lets not forget Video games though:
First Person Shooters- Bloodshot, Eternal Warrior, Ninjak, X-O maybe?

Video games for the movie franchise, toys for the cartoon franchise, and clothing lines for the TV show franchises (? )

[Zaphod]

I think I've figured out why Valiant/Acclaim went down hill so quickly.

"I was working in the same office as the girlfriend of then-President of Valiant/Acclaim Comics Steve Massarsky," I explained to the audience. "Next thing I knew, I got an interview with new Editor-in-Chief Fabian Nicieza. When I told him of my goal to become a comic book writer, he said 'my condolences,' and proceeded to list all the downsides to the industry in an attempt to both discourage and protect me. But I was determined to stick with the comic biz no matter what—and several months later, I became an Acclaim assistant-editor."

If it took me 10 months to go from french fry technician to Junior CEO at McDonalds there might be a problem with the golden arches upcoming too.

I thought "Acclaim assistant-editor" was the same as french fry technician.

pwned

is it retro-chiq to say pwned yet?

[MoonChild]

Well thought out list, I likes

I think that the Valiant characters are too complex for the big screen. If they try to do it I think we will all be disappointed.

I disagree.

Focusing solely on the VALIANT characters, this is how I see them across media.

Movie franchise

Bloodshot
Eternal Warrior
Ninjak
Shadowman
X-O Manowar

Cartoon franchise

Armorines
Geomancer
Psi-Lords
Rai
Secret Weapons
The Visitor

Live Action TV show franchise

Archer & Armstrong
HARD Corps
Harbinger
The Second Life of Dr Mirage
Timewalker

[myron]

I think I've figured out why Valiant/Acclaim went down hill so quickly.

"I was working in the same office as the girlfriend of then-President of Valiant/Acclaim Comics Steve Massarsky," I explained to the audience. "Next thing I knew, I got an interview with new Editor-in-Chief Fabian Nicieza. When I told him of my goal to become a comic book writer, he said 'my condolences,' and proceeded to list all the downsides to the industry in an attempt to both discourage and protect me. But I was determined to stick with the comic biz no matter what—and several months later, I became an Acclaim assistant-editor."

If it took me 10 months to go from french fry technician to Junior CEO at McDonalds there might be a problem with the golden arches upcoming too.

I thought "Acclaim assistant-editor" was the same as french fry technician.

pwned

is it retro-chiq to say pwned yet?

nah, Dawgphan used to use it all the time...

[Troy Hickman]

Final Solution
(W) Troy Hickman (P/I) Lonardo Manco
Book One: Eternity's End
There is a blight on the planet Earth. They're called... Superheroes.
One man has decided to rid the world of this menace and no one can escape
The Final Solution! For centuries, they've protected humanity's
future - now, who will protect them? A tragedy of staggering proportions,
this self-contained 48-page epic's repercussions will affect the entire
Acclaim Universe. Will those who've been here the longest be the first
to fall before the misguided dreams of one man? And if the mightiest do
fall, what chance do those remaining have of stopping this mad crusade?
FC, 48 pages

Oh, man, I haven't thought about this in a long, long time. I was really jazzed about the project at the time (especially since I had only written one or two professional comics at that point). I had knocked myself out on this beautiful outline, but they pulled the plug before it ever saw fruition (which also means I didn't get paid; no script, no greenbacks). I think it would've been a great mini-series.

Hey, retro is HUGE in comics these days. Can we go back and try this one again?

[ManofTheAtom]

Final Solution
(W) Troy Hickman (P/I) Lonardo Manco
Book One: Eternity's End
There is a blight on the planet Earth. They're called... Superheroes.
One man has decided to rid the world of this menace and no one can escape
The Final Solution! For centuries, they've protected humanity's
future - now, who will protect them? A tragedy of staggering proportions,
this self-contained 48-page epic's repercussions will affect the entire
Acclaim Universe. Will those who've been here the longest be the first
to fall before the misguided dreams of one man? And if the mightiest do
fall, what chance do those remaining have of stopping this mad crusade?
FC, 48 pages

Oh, man, I haven't thought about this in a long, long time. I was really jazzed about the project at the time (especially since I had only written one or two professional comics at that point). I had knocked myself out on this beautiful outline, but they pulled the plug before it ever saw fruition (which also means I didn't get paid; no script, no greenbacks). I think it would've been a great mini-series.

Hey, retro is HUGE in comics these days. Can we go back and try this one again?

Please, no. No more VH 2. I want VALIANT, not VALIANT-lite.

Based on what I've heard about Common Grounds, you might be a good fit for VALIANT.

[Troy Hickman]

Actually, that'd be a dream gig for me. I LOVED the Valiant stuff, especially Harbinger (but then, group books have always been my fave).

[superman-prime]

Very cool article

[ManofTheAtom]

Actually, that'd be a dream gig for me. I LOVED the Valiant stuff, especially Harbinger (but then, group books have always been my fave).

You have my vote for Harbinger, definitely. Again, based on word of mouth about Common Grounds alone, without having read it, I'm sure you might be great on it. That's how good that is, you know, that word of mouth is enough to engender that vote of confidence.

Btw, please no more retro either. Let DC drown in its Silver Age nostalgia. VALIANT is a universe for a different sort of reader, one who isn't into super dogs and multiple Earths.

Jeff Gomez had it right when he said that back in the 90's VALIANT was ahead of everyone else, doing revolutionary stuff like Harbinger which did what Heroes is doing now a decade earlier.

Gomez' idea that VEI's VALIANT comics should be equally revolutionary is the way to go.

[MoonChild]

I typed alot and took it back so MOTA does not get heated, he's a passionate dude and I think we all appreciate his dedication. [serious tho]

Actually, that'd be a dream gig for me. I LOVED the Valiant stuff, especially Harbinger (but then, group books have always been my fave).

You have my vote for Harbinger, definitely. Again, based on word of mouth about Common Grounds alone, without having read it, I'm sure you might be great on it. That's how good that is, you know, that word of mouth is enough to engender that vote of confidence.

Btw, please no more retro either. Let DC drown in its Silver Age nostalgia. VALIANT is a universe for a different sort of reader, one who isn't into super dogs and multiple Earths.

Jeff Gomez had it right when he said that back in the 90's VALIANT was ahead of everyone else, doing revolutionary stuff like Harbinger which did what Heroes is doing now a decade earlier.

Gomez' idea that VEI's VALIANT comics should be equally revolutionary is the way to go.

[hulk181man]

Final Solution
(W) Troy Hickman (P/I) Lonardo Manco
Book One: Eternity's End
There is a blight on the planet Earth. They're called... Superheroes.
One man has decided to rid the world of this menace and no one can escape
The Final Solution! For centuries, they've protected humanity's
future - now, who will protect them? A tragedy of staggering proportions,
this self-contained 48-page epic's repercussions will affect the entire
Acclaim Universe. Will those who've been here the longest be the first
to fall before the misguided dreams of one man? And if the mightiest do
fall, what chance do those remaining have of stopping this mad crusade?
FC, 48 pages

Oh, man, I haven't thought about this in a long, long time. I was really jazzed about the project at the time (especially since I had only written one or two professional comics at that point). I had knocked myself out on this beautiful outline, but they pulled the plug before it ever saw fruition (which also means I didn't get paid; no script, no greenbacks). I think it would've been a great mini-series.

Hey, retro is HUGE in comics these days. Can we go back and try this one again?

For what it's worth...I really looked forward to The Final Solution when I heard rumblings about it. Oh well....I was also looking forward to Acclaim's Dr. Mirage reboot.