Harbinger ending with Issue #8

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Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Benny_Decker »

Just read the April solicitations featuring Harbinger #7:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/shadowm ... -solicits/

"Enter the high-flying hero Faith Herbert! Peter Stanchek's former teammate and friend flies into Psiot City to find out what's going on, but the Renegade and his formidable psiots have other plans than a warm welcome. This penultimate issue ends with a shocker…"

Remember when Valiant ongoings went to #25? Or even 12? Why only 8? Low sales?

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by nycjadie »

Penultimate yet again….

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by nonplayer »

I am glad I never got into this. I did question ongoing because the track record to produce anything good has been abysmal.
I Miss the good old days.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by armlessphelan »

I feel like the last Valiant comic to make it to issue 12 was Livewire. I'm wondering how long it'll be before DMG gives up on comics. It seems like it wasn't a worthwhile investment for them because only one movies was made and it died due to the pandemic.
Manga, comics, who cares? They're pretty much the same thing.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

These trash books shouldn’t even run 8 issues. The optimistic side of me hopes the new guy in charge is clearing out the rubbish before bringing in his own creators…however time will tell.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

armlessphelan wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:36:38 pm
I feel like the last Valiant comic to make it to issue 12 was Livewire. I'm wondering how long it'll be before DMG gives up on comics. It seems like it wasn't a worthwhile investment for them because only one movies was made and it died due to the pandemic.
Livewire should have ended after 4 (mediocre) issues, that series went from bad to worse.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Chiclo »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:51:15 pm
These trash books shouldn’t even run 8 issues. The optimistic side of me hopes the new guy in charge is clearing out the rubbish before bringing in his own creators…however time will tell.
Wait, Walter is back? :kidaround:

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Chiclo wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:32:17 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:51:15 pm
These trash books shouldn’t even run 8 issues. The optimistic side of me hopes the new guy in charge is clearing out the rubbish before bringing in his own creators…however time will tell.
Wait, Walter is back? :kidaround:
Who’s Walter, is this some American thing? :? :lol:

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by TimeWillTell »

I never left.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by ckb »

TimeWillTell wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:16:34 pm
I never left.
:hi:

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by GammaJosh »

armlessphelan wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:36:38 pm
I feel like the last Valiant comic to make it to issue 12 was Livewire. I'm wondering how long it'll be before DMG gives up on comics. It seems like it wasn't a worthwhile investment for them because only one movies was made and it died due to the pandemic.
I think if they give up on comics they have to give up on the whole licensing/multimedia enterprise. I suspect the only reason the publishing division is still open is to avoid the embarrassment of shutting down, and the negative effects that would have on licensing potential.

It seems like DMG is really putting the cart before the horse. They're obviously pinning their hopes on long term licensing and multimedia income, but you can't successfully license unknown properties. Considering the vast amounts of money already on the table, it seems penny wise and dollar foolish to starve the publishing division. For a relatively minor increase in expenditure they could get the very best talent in the industry and create some real buzz. Imagine if they landed a Jonathan Hickman or a Jim Lee type to oversee the whole line in a head writer position, with an overarching plan for the whole universe. Or maybe Joe Quesada overseeing Marvel Knights before becoming EIC is a better example. I just don't think swinging for the fences with up-and-comers and 2nd & 3rd tier talent is going to help them break out and increase sales, but I get the distinct impression that's all they can afford.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:36:47 pm
For a relatively minor increase in expenditure they could get the very best talent in the industry and create some real buzz. Imagine if they landed a Jonathan Hickman or a Jim Lee type to oversee the whole line in a head writer position, with an overarching plan for the whole universe. Or maybe Joe Quesada overseeing Marvel Knights before becoming EIC is a better example. I just don't think swinging for the fences with up-and-comers and 2nd & 3rd tier talent is going to help them break out and increase sales, but I get the distinct impression that's all they can afford.
I don’t think the problem over the last 3 years has necessarily been money per se. The problem is they hired editors who blew the money on poor creative choices. I’m not saying they could afford the creme de la creme but if Dinesh could get Larosa, Kindt, Venditti level creators then so could DMG (although I don’t think some of those creators would work for DMG on principal). However, DMG editors chose to aim for a different audience and hired creators they thought would bring them in or be on the ‘right side of history’ or whatever BS was behind it (which we’ve talked about a million times).

Long story short, for the same money they could have delivered far better product and retained the core Valisht readership but instead they abandoned it.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:19:02 am
...if Dinesh could get Larosa, Kindt, Venditti level creators then so could DMG
That's only true if publishing had the same amount of money to work with. Remember when Dinesh used to brag about how Valiant paid the highest page rates in the industry? You haven't heard that since DMG took over, have you? My assumption has always been that DMG ordered publishing to tighten their proverbial belt, so the page rates were cut. I don't know that, but that kind of decision tracks with the change from a CEO who loves comics to a CEO who, well, let's just say...doesn't.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by dino »

GammaJosh wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:08:51 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:19:02 am
...if Dinesh could get Larosa, Kindt, Venditti level creators then so could DMG
That's only true if publishing had the same amount of money to work with. Remember when Dinesh used to brag about how Valiant paid the highest page rates in the industry? You haven't heard that since DMG took over, have you? My assumption has always been that DMG ordered publishing to tighten their proverbial belt, so the page rates were cut. I don't know that, but that kind of decision tracks with the change from a CEO who loves comics to a CEO who, well, let's just say...doesn't.
We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics :)

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by GammaJosh »

dino wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:39:48 pm

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics :)

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.
Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44:24 pm
dino wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:39:48 pm

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics :)

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.
Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?
Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:16:08 am
Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).
I hadn't heard that. I doubt they'd be able to acknowledge publicly if the page rates had been cut. It is my understanding that DMG is basically leaving publishing alone to do as they please, but you have to assume that means within certain financial confines.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:38:57 am
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:16:08 am
Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).
I hadn't heard that. I doubt they'd be able to acknowledge publicly if the page rates had been cut. It is my understanding that DMG is basically leaving publishing alone to do as they please, but you have to assume that means within certain financial confines.
Yeah sorry, I didn’t mean that in the sense of ‘money was no obstacle, go out and hire who you want’ kind of thing, I think he meant they were reasonably supported financially by DMG. No doubt financial confines were/are in place.

I think the hire of Dan Abnett and Jose Ryp tells us they DO have the money to hire and deliver quality books in line with what VEI gave us, however, they choose not to and instead give us Hopeless Hallum, Vita Ayela, Seeley, and whoever writes the latest Harbinger.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:03:18 am
GammaJosh wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:38:57 am
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:16:08 am
Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).
I hadn't heard that. I doubt they'd be able to acknowledge publicly if the page rates had been cut. It is my understanding that DMG is basically leaving publishing alone to do as they please, but you have to assume that means within certain financial confines.
Yeah sorry, I didn’t mean that in the sense of ‘money was no obstacle, go out and hire who you want’ kind of thing, I think he meant they were reasonably supported financially by DMG. No doubt financial confines were/are in place.

I think the hire of Dan Abnett and Jose Ryp tells us they DO have the money to hire and deliver quality books in line with what VEI gave us, however, they choose not to and instead give us Hopeless Hallum, Vita Ayela, Seeley, and whoever writes the latest Harbinger.
I would actually assume the Hopeless is on the more expensive side, considering his work on top tier Marvel books. If anything I think Ryp might be less expensive than you're thinking. He's never been on a big title, has he? An offshoot Wolverine maxi series and Nancy in Hell, right?

Hiring Abnett could be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Grab one big name who takes up a disproportionate amount of the budget, and put up-and-comers on other books to make ends meet? Just guessing.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »


I would actually assume the Hopeless is on the more expensive side, considering his work on top tier Marvel books. If anything I think Ryp might be less expensive than you're thinking. He's never been on a big title, has he? An offshoot Wolverine maxi series and Nancy in Hell, right?

Hiring Abnett could be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Grab one big name who takes up a disproportionate amount of the budget, and put up-and-comers on other books to make ends meet? Just guessing.
I doubt whether working on top tier marvel/DC necessarily equals expensive these days. But either way, if he is expensive then it was a massive waste of money on a C level (at best) writer. That money could have been used on a writer who has a clue about XO as a character and delivered a story worthy of the name.

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by dino »

GammaJosh wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44:24 pm
dino wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:39:48 pm

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics :)

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.
Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?
I'm trying to only say nice things :)

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by nycjadie »

I don't think short runs is a bar to success these days. I mean, the Mignolaverse and Hellboy is essentially based on 4-issue runs. They played funny with the numbering system for a time (so as to make it easier for folks to understand continuity - so suddenly there was an issue 128 or whatever).

People like quality in art and stories. :?

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by Chiclo »

nycjadie wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:40:07 pm
People like quality in art and stories. :?
Is that a swipe against today’s Valiant? :o :lol: 8-)

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Re: Harbinger ending with Issue #8

Post by GammaJosh »

dino wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:19:10 pm
GammaJosh wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44:24 pm
dino wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:39:48 pm

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics :)

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.
Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?
I'm trying to only say nice things :)
I'm gonna go ahead and translate that as a very cheeky "Well it sure looks like they have! lol"


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