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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:02:23 am 
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
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nonplayer wrote:
Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.

I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.

To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.

Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie. :?[/quote]
I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.

Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?

Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?[/quote]

We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! :? I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!

The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?

We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple![/quote]
Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?[/quote]

How about pushing faith when its done so terribly.
And I belive live wire lived through hw2 events just so she could have her own title.[/quote]
I think the last Faith title ended before Antos started. But either way, she didn't work on them. But even if she had, how is there a *message* of diversity there? There's a difference between featuring characters that are diverse and hitting you over the head with a message of diversity in the story.[/quote]
The message is everyone is doing it. And a company that cancels good reader numbers to deversify when they didnt need to is the message. Common now![/quote]
This is not a swipe, but I honestly have no idea what you're trying to communicate here.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:10:29 am 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19:05 am
Posts: 1759
Location: United Kingdom
Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
Favorite character: X-O
Favorite title: X-O
Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
Favorite artist: Larosa
kjjohanson wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.

I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.

To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.

Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie. :?

I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.

Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?

Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?


We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! :? I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!

The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?

We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!

Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?


Because she’s decided that’s one of the factors of her decision making of who makes the books and therefore what they write about. It’s heavy handed because in her rush to virtue signal and pick mediocre writers and artists (eg Livewire) based on anything but writing skills we’re getting a poor product.

You never explain why you feel it’s ok for these people to take over at Valiant and decide diversity is now a factor in selecting who writes the books? Why don't they publish their own books and have as much diversity as they want then people can choose those books safe in the knowledge of what their buying, why have they decided to impose it Valiant readers? It’s not like there was an existing publisher who prioritised diversity hires and a bunch of new readers started reading the books and demanded they change their business model?

Bottom line is the books in 2019 are the worst they’ve ever been since the relaunch in 2012. Some people claim they like them (?) but I think it’s safe to say most don’t based on sales and comments on this board. I personally don’t want diversity to be a factor with who they hire or what they write about, I just want great books like we had when the company relaunched.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:17:48 am 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19:05 am
Posts: 1759
Location: United Kingdom
Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
Favorite character: X-O
Favorite title: X-O
Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
Favorite artist: Larosa
nycjadie wrote:
greg wrote:
nycjadie wrote:
AnarchoMambo wrote:
NYCJ, you’ve cited this one many times. Certainly an unfortunate incident. But said individual does not edit any of the far future Valiant titles, correct? Perhaps it is time to let that one go?


I mean, if I was at Coca-Cola and sold Coca-Cola, and my head of sales said it was Pepsi, that would be an unfortunate incident, regardless of whether it was far in the future or present. While I personally can let it go, I'm not sure I could afford to do so if I worked at said company.

But Coca-Cola doesn't also sell Pepsi. The difference between Rai and Bloodshot isn't like Coca-Cola and Pepsi. It's like Coke Zero and Coke Zero Sugar... one is the future of the other one.


Point taken about origin, but maybe it’s more like Coke and Sprite. The flavors are so different, that it’s more than just sugar, especially when you are there to sell one of them, and have prepped for it.


Yeah that’s true Greg, the analogy is more like Coke and Sprite, 2 distinct products and thinking Sprite is the one in the red can :lol: ( here’s where Greg tracks down a picture of a red can of Sprite)

Using a similar analogy Greg, do you prefer new Coke (Valiant 2018-2019) or classic Coke (Valiant 2012-2017)?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:15:03 am 
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52:13 pm
Posts: 4688
Location: Astoria, NY
Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
Note Howards comment, "I got to pitch…" i.e. there is an approval process. The odds that any creator is getting carte blanche is unlikely, unless that creator is such a huge name that, regardless of whatever nonsense he/she puts together, it's going to sell tons anyway.

I attended a panel on diversity at NYCC on which Antos and Ayala were teo of the contributors. Antos, speaking about her work at Valiant, noted (paraphrasing here, as I don't remember the exact words, but the message was clear), that she has diversity in mind when she's choosing creators (and I'm sure that's the line Dallow Spicer will jump on, even though it's not the important one), but it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is the quality of their work. We may have disagreements about the quality of the work, but the motivation behind choosing creators is clear; it's based on whether the editor thinks they can deliver quality content, first and foremost.

To be fair, Howards shouldn't have even got to the point of pitching a Forgotten Queen mini-series. That was a bad call on Valiant's part.

Antos' focus on diversity is worrisome to me too. I know it's "not the most important factor" (supposedly), but it shouldn't be a factor at all. Also I'm just not sure if I believe Antos when she says diversity is less important than the quality of their work. Spicer is right to point out that a lot of her buddies have gotten hired by Valiant, even though they really have no profitable/well-received books under their belt. I'm not opposed to hiring a seeming up-and-comer like Vita Ayala for a 12-issue series, but it do think it shows where Antos' priorities lie. :?

I see diversity as a good way to see different perspectives on situations, so I do think diversity should be a factor.

Is there a resource out there that tells you what comic creators are "buddies" or is that just an assumption because people share certain viewpoints/philosophies?

Also, there seems to be a general assumption amongst those complaining that the current creators were the only talent approached by Valiant. It's not common practice to advertise who won't be working on your books. What makes people think that creators that they would rather see on Valiant titles haven't been approached?


We’re not here to listen to people preaching about diversity, if people are interested in that then by all means launch a company, call it ‘Diversity’ and go for you life with as much of it as you want! :? I’m not against people having those books just do it somewhere else!

The issue is, and always has been, left wing extremists hijacking a harmless hobby for their own agendas. Why is Heather Antos et al obsessed with teaching us about diversity? What an insane business model Valiant has adopted. It’s like letting employees of McDonalds sell what they feel like selling! Imagine walking into McDonalds and the staff telling you they’ve decided they only sell vegan curry now, hows that going to be for sales?

We, Valiant readers, are not here for other people to practice and preach their views on...just sell interesting comic books that the customer (we who buy the books ) want to read...its that simple!

Please explain how you think Antos is "teaching us about diversity." Is there a particular issue of a particular comic in mind where you think there was a heavy-handed message?


Because she’s decided that’s one of the factors of her decision making of who makes the books and therefore what they write about. It’s heavy handed because in her rush to virtue signal and pick mediocre writers and artists (eg Livewire) based on anything but writing skills we’re getting a poor product.

You never explain why you feel it’s ok for these people to take over at Valiant and decide diversity is now a factor in selecting who writes the books? Why don't they publish their own books and have as much diversity as they want then people can choose those books safe in the knowledge of what their buying, why have they decided to impose it Valiant readers? It’s not like there was an existing publisher who prioritised diversity hires and a bunch of new readers started reading the books and demanded they change their business model?

Bottom line is the books in 2019 are the worst they’ve ever been since the relaunch in 2012. Some people claim they like them (?) but I think it’s safe to say most don’t based on sales and comments on this board. I personally don’t want diversity to be a factor with who they hire or what they write about, I just want great books like we had when the company relaunched.

And it's not like this publisher is prioritizing that now. One editor mentioned that she's aware of it, but explicitly said that it's *not* the priority. Which you would recognize if you actually absorbed everything from my message about that panel. But thanks for perfectly illustrating why I asked if you had citations for what you claim; because it's clear you'll focus on whatever facts fit your particular view, and ignore them if they don't.

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