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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:01:26 pm 
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I agree that Faith is a strange choice, given her last team-up mini had really week sales. I think some of the shine may have worn off on Faith titles. Having a Dr. Mirage solo mini and a real Harbinger series would have been better.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:57:46 pm 
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nonplayer wrote:
Sheikhaljabal wrote:
My rather long - sorry - 2 cents: it seems they're betting more on minis: one ongoing (I doubt B:PRS will run over #12 give and take a couple of issues, à la Wrath of EW, and the others are a limited event, which has got me very curious (are we sure it's even strictly Shadowman related? It sounds like something between BOD and Rapture, so I imagine characters such as the Darque brothers or GATE's Armorines can drop by on this one) and two minis with female leads, one of them also showcasing other superheroines (which I hope is NOT the DOCTOR MIRAGE project we've read about, as she deserves more solo stories). I'll follow them all, but I hope there are more ongoings to come.
I agree with the universe dispersion trend: I love BRITANNIA (except for it's name) and like WAR MOTHER a lot, but on a comics line with roughly 7 issues a month, I would rather have just one elsewhen title per month. Cohesion and around 5 ongoings would feel better for those of us who are also continuity driven. Plus, Valiant still has many viable IPs from their previous eras (from GEOMANCER to DOCTOR TOMORROW, besides many minor ones) and retoolings like SECRET WEAPONS and Deathmate seem more constructive than what happened to GENERATION ZERO, although some of its characters are floating around.
I second the people who ask for more HARBINGER (which, frankly, was left in shambles) and RAI (someone teased a 4002 summer event, right?) and am awaiting on PSI-LORDS and the SAVAGE sequel. But give us permanently at least one among the Anni Paddas - I think it's Ivar (or Neela), TIMEWALKER's turn but a DELINQUENTS deux would also be welcome - and a NON psiot group book: the current line misses UNITY (done better, if I may) but more IMPERIUM would be Much appreciated.
Besides clarifying - Diggle on SHADOWMAN style - some nagging hanging plot threads (Gilad's daughter whereabouts, the Vine settling on Mars or the Foundation Zone status, for example), I hope VALIANT polishes back (as they did with Mothergod and Dr Eclipse in DIVINITY) their quite needed and unused historic villains such as the Immortal Enemy, Doctor Silk's Webnet or The Destroyer.

I like what you said except its DMG not Valiant now. Dmg is running the valiant charaters they arnt valiant. and dont forget about dead hands and the undieing one from wrath of the eternal warrior.
Ive decided if they break events that have happened I will drop books. Ie introducing new members of hard corp weve not hurd of. Dmg has alot of prooving before I will ever call them "Valiant" just because they bought the company doesnt mean they earn that title.


For the bolded part, isn't half of the thing with HARD Corps that they are expendable and the roster can change on a whim?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:16:31 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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nwoslave wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
Well I went to go check out Vita Ayala's Twitter, and looks like I'm already blocked...



I can confirm that a block list is being circulated among artists and writers on twitter that have anything to do with movetheneedle or d?&c. I found out I was blocked by al Ewing and never communicated with him on twitter. When I did to ask about immortal hulk boy did I get a surprise. Non the less I did not buy the book.

A lot are too insulated in their world and consider it hate speech to critique their work. I am blocked by Vita Ayala at the moment. And never communicated to her or him


Vita prefers the pronoun they (I'm not kidding) https://io9.gizmodo.com/up-and-coming-writer-vita-ayala-explains-why-theyre-mak-1819362010

I think we're starting to get that Valiant Beyond might mean Valiant is beyond giving a sh!t about the Valiant fans.

It's sad because the hardcore fans are the only thing that has kept Valiant alive through the years. All the variant covers they put out since 2012 has been to goose the sales figures and bleed the hardest of hardcore fans of every dime. And now they're bringing in writers who have obviously never read a Valiant comic in order to use the characters as a mouthpiece for their politics.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:17:30 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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jxm640 wrote:
nonplayer wrote:
Sheikhaljabal wrote:
My rather long - sorry - 2 cents: it seems they're betting more on minis: one ongoing (I doubt B:PRS will run over #12 give and take a couple of issues, à la Wrath of EW, and the others are a limited event, which has got me very curious (are we sure it's even strictly Shadowman related? It sounds like something between BOD and Rapture, so I imagine characters such as the Darque brothers or GATE's Armorines can drop by on this one) and two minis with female leads, one of them also showcasing other superheroines (which I hope is NOT the DOCTOR MIRAGE project we've read about, as she deserves more solo stories). I'll follow them all, but I hope there are more ongoings to come.
I agree with the universe dispersion trend: I love BRITANNIA (except for it's name) and like WAR MOTHER a lot, but on a comics line with roughly 7 issues a month, I would rather have just one elsewhen title per month. Cohesion and around 5 ongoings would feel better for those of us who are also continuity driven. Plus, Valiant still has many viable IPs from their previous eras (from GEOMANCER to DOCTOR TOMORROW, besides many minor ones) and retoolings like SECRET WEAPONS and Deathmate seem more constructive than what happened to GENERATION ZERO, although some of its characters are floating around.
I second the people who ask for more HARBINGER (which, frankly, was left in shambles) and RAI (someone teased a 4002 summer event, right?) and am awaiting on PSI-LORDS and the SAVAGE sequel. But give us permanently at least one among the Anni Paddas - I think it's Ivar (or Neela), TIMEWALKER's turn but a DELINQUENTS deux would also be welcome - and a NON psiot group book: the current line misses UNITY (done better, if I may) but more IMPERIUM would be Much appreciated.
Besides clarifying - Diggle on SHADOWMAN style - some nagging hanging plot threads (Gilad's daughter whereabouts, the Vine settling on Mars or the Foundation Zone status, for example), I hope VALIANT polishes back (as they did with Mothergod and Dr Eclipse in DIVINITY) their quite needed and unused historic villains such as the Immortal Enemy, Doctor Silk's Webnet or The Destroyer.

I like what you said except its DMG not Valiant now. Dmg is running the valiant charaters they arnt valiant. and dont forget about dead hands and the undieing one from wrath of the eternal warrior.
Ive decided if they break events that have happened I will drop books. Ie introducing new members of hard corp weve not hurd of. Dmg has alot of prooving before I will ever call them "Valiant" just because they bought the company doesnt mean they earn that title.


For the bolded part, isn't half of the thing with HARD Corps that they are expendable and the roster can change on a whim?

You strengthened my point. We have see the roster change and expendables die since valiants return.
If they do stories in the middle no new charaters and weve seen everyone die already.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:29:12 am 
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Ryan wrote:
nwoslave wrote:
TheFerg714 wrote:
Well I went to go check out Vita Ayala's Twitter, and looks like I'm already blocked...



I can confirm that a block list is being circulated among artists and writers on twitter that have anything to do with movetheneedle or d?&c. I found out I was blocked by al Ewing and never communicated with him on twitter. When I did to ask about immortal hulk boy did I get a surprise. Non the less I did not buy the book.

A lot are too insulated in their world and consider it hate speech to critique their work. I am blocked by Vita Ayala at the moment. And never communicated to her or him


Vita prefers the pronoun they (I'm not kidding) https://io9.gizmodo.com/up-and-coming-writer-vita-ayala-explains-why-theyre-mak-1819362010

I think we're starting to get that Valiant Beyond might mean Valiant is beyond giving a sh!t about the Valiant fans.

It's sad because the hardcore fans are the only thing that has kept Valiant alive through the years. All the variant covers they put out since 2012 has been to goose the sales figures and bleed the hardest of hardcore fans of every dime. And now they're bringing in writers who have obviously never read a Valiant comic in order to use the characters as a mouthpiece for their politics.

It's just depressing that DMG doesn't even understand that. They're putting all their eggs in one basket (Bloodshot movie) and just kind of hoping that it pays off. Seriously, what are they going to do if Beyond throws all of the hardcore fans under the bus and the movie underperforms? What's their plan? What do they plan to fall back on?
On another note, I don't think it's fair to attribute "politics mouthpiece" to these books yet. I'll agree that's it's fishy (ESPECIALLY Ayala), but I'm going in open-minded.

Also, yup, just checked, I'm blocked by Al Ewing too. Do these people not want me to read their books!?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:07:28 am 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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TheFerg714 wrote:
It's just depressing that DMG doesn't even understand that. They're putting all their eggs in one basket (Bloodshot movie) and just kind of hoping that it pays off. Seriously, what are they going to do if Beyond throws all of the hardcore fans under the boss and the movie underperforms? What's their plan? What do they plan to fall back on?
On another note, I don't think it's fair to attribute "politics mouthpiece" to these books yet. I'll agree that's it's fishy (ESPECIALLY Ayala), but I'm going in open-minded.

Also, yup, just checked, I'm blocked by Al Ewing too. Do these people not want me to read their books!?


I agree we should have an open mind about a book that is months away from coming out. It's just harder when the title of the article in big bold is "Up-and-Coming Writer Vita Ayala Explains Why They're Making Fiercely Political Comics" . And like I said before, I'm liberal, voted for Hilary etc., but if I want to read about politics I'll go to websites where political experts write or read an actual book.

Anyway beyond that stuff, I'm just a fan who wants to see Valiant thrive and this feels like a make or break time for these characters. I was just hoping that given the fresh start they would pull out the big guns and swing for the fences one more time. I just don't see how this lineup is going to get any interest from average comic fans.

Good point on the Bloodshot movie. Even if it's well done, with the over-saturation of superhero movies it has just as much a chance of being ignored and instantly forgotten by the general public.

Side note - I was watching some of the new game trailers from E3 even though I don't really game and I saw this in a message from the makers of a new game Cyberpunk 2077 : Once again, thank you for your patience. If you have a minute, do visit cyberpunk.net and share your opinion (about anything) with us. We read everything you post and we treat it very seriously.

Yours, CD PROJEKT RED Team


Can you imagine any comic book company in 2018 saying something like that? And video games have much bigger and even more diverse audiences. Just a tiny sentiment like that can go a long way with fans, to genuinely want to hear the good, bad, and ugly of fan opinion. All this creators vs. fans stuff is silly and ultimately destructive, no one wins in the end.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:01:21 pm 
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Ryan wrote:
It's sad because the hardcore fans are the only thing that has kept Valiant alive through the years. All the variant covers they put out since 2012 has been to goose the sales figures and bleed the hardest of hardcore fans of every dime. And now they're bringing in writers who have obviously never read a Valiant comic in order to use the characters as a mouthpiece for their politics.


I think it's hard to know that for sure. VEI (under Dino) threw the dice on bringing in Peter Milligan to write Shadowman and it worked out terribly. I don't know Milligan's politics, but I do know his work on other comics and he usually puts out pretty good stuff (for example, Britannia in Valiant). Similarly, Marvel took a chance with Ta-Nehisi Coates (a guy who had never wrote a comic before) on Black Panther. Coates has some very specific political and social beliefs and while you can see traces of that in his work on BP, it's not the central part of the book. It's worked out well enough that they are now giving him a shot at writing Captain America.

In this case, DMG/Valiant is taking a chance with Ayala, and it may work out well. It could also fail miserably. But, I wouldn't just assume that the LiveWire book will be chock full of Ayala's politicized beliefs -- hopefully, Ayala takes the time to do research on the character and crafts a good story line (similar to what I think Andy Diggle has done with Shadowman).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:45:20 pm 
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Ryan wrote:
Anyway beyond that stuff, I'm just a fan who wants to see Valiant thrive and this feels like a make or break time for these characters. I was just hoping that given the fresh start they would pull out the big guns and swing for the fences one more time. I just don't see how this lineup is going to get any interest from average comic fans.

It won't. I mean really, literally no one's asking for another Faith mini. If it does so well in trade (which is the only way I can imagine it being financially viable), just release an OGN and leave a spot in the lineup open for a book that might actually sell.
Livewire is a huge question mark, and probably the best idea for a new, "fresh" series for the new management. However, I think it was probably a bad idea to hire someone who blocks people on Twitter for using the hashtag #movetheneedle and who's entire goal is to create politically-charged stories. We'll see, I guess. I still haven't read The Wilds, but I'm going in with an open-mind because Livewire deserves this.
Bloodshot PRS isn't a bad idea, but I don't think there's much momentum on Bloodshot right now. Maybe they'll push the marketing a little bit more as the months move forward.
And Incursion seems cool, but where's the hook? Is there a single Marvel/DC reader out there that's going to read "you know, the Deadside? Well there's another one, and it's coming for Earth," and look more into it? I just don't see it grabbing anyone's attention.

Just look at Valiant's previous publishing initiatives. They all had something for everyone. Casual and hardcore. Comedic and serious. Intellectual and basic. Action-packed and introspective. What exactly is Valiant Beyond going for? What are they trying to accomplish?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:54:10 pm 
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Zhuge1 wrote:
I think it's hard to know that for sure. VEI (under Dino) threw the dice on bringing in Peter Milligan to write Shadowman and it worked out terribly. I don't know Milligan's politics, but I do know his work on other comics and he usually puts out pretty good stuff (for example, Britannia in Valiant). Similarly, Marvel took a chance with Ta-Nehisi Coates (a guy who had never wrote a comic before) on Black Panther. Coates has some very specific political and social beliefs and while you can see traces of that in his work on BP, it's not the central part of the book. It's worked out well enough that they are now giving him a shot at writing Captain America.

In this case, DMG/Valiant is taking a chance with Ayala, and it may work out well. It could also fail miserably. But, I wouldn't just assume that the LiveWire book will be chock full of Ayala's politicized beliefs -- hopefully, Ayala takes the time to do research on the character and crafts a good story line (similar to what I think Andy Diggle has done with Shadowman).


EDIT: Oops, sorry for the doublepost.
Keyword: hopefully.
Finding new writers is always a roll of the dice, but the difference is that VEI struck gold with the original four, and then, while making some bad decisions along the way, ended up keeping up an extremely good track record. For every Shadowman there was a Brittania. For every Dead Drop there was a Secret Weapons. Yea, they might have given Rafer Roberts the reigns of Harbinger, but they also let Matt Kindt make Divinity a central part of the Valiant U. My point is VEI proved themselves in spades.
So now that DMG gets the chance to prove themselves, this is what they give us? Another reboot of Bloodshot, another Faith mini, a Livewire mini with a writer that might suck, and a boring event. I think it's fair to be nervous.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:51:49 am 
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TheFerg714 wrote:
EDIT: Oops, sorry for the doublepost.
Keyword: hopefully.
Finding new writers is always a roll of the dice, but the difference is that VEI struck gold with the original four, and then, while making some bad decisions along the way, ended up keeping up an extremely good track record. For every Shadowman there was a Brittania. For every Dead Drop there was a Secret Weapons. Yea, they might have given Rafer Roberts the reigns of Harbinger, but they also let Matt Kindt make Divinity a central part of the Valiant U. My point is VEI proved themselves in spades.
So now that DMG gets the chance to prove themselves, this is what they give us? Another reboot of Bloodshot, another Faith mini, a Livewire mini with a writer that might suck, and a boring event. I think it's fair to be nervous.


I think that's reasonable. I agree that another Faith mini-series seems like an odd choice given the recent sales, but hopefully Houser has a good idea for the book, and I like the idea of bringing in Dr. Mirage. I'm keeping an open mind because (as you point out) more of the stuff that's come from Valiant has been good than bad.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:32:40 pm 
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I was asking Jody if she was going to do another Faith mini earlier this year because I was literally (used correctly) asking for another and she didn't give an answer that said yes so that's a pleasant surprise.

All 4 books sound great. Incursion sounds like it'll have at least a Shadowman tie-in, if Diggle's Twitter is to be believed. I have asked and made a lot of comments about smaller characters getting a chance to have a book. I said for a long time on my podcast that I help with that I'd love Livewire to get a mini. Same with the Armorines, Neela, and Animalia.

X-O and Ninjak were the only titles since 2012 that could maintain sales to go past 25 issues and Ninjak barely squeaked that. If Valiant wants to do some different stuff, I'm totally supportive. I don't have a problem with diversity. Frankly, I'd like a Valiant universe that offers something for everyone, with the exception of any kind of bigotry.

My only gripes would be that Valiant does need to get back to having some of the main characters back, like Gilad, or even a team book for the psiots, like Harbinger. If they could have added two books to the announcement and had at least one of those be included, I think that would have knocked it out of the park. But still, I love the fact that Valiant takes chances and mixes up their catalog of stories with ones that are minor.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:34:15 pm 
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Looks like Incursion will have Shadowman tie-in issues!

EDIT: Oops, just read Joshua's post. My bad.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:19:22 pm 
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I wonder if the upcoming X-O arc, AGENT, with the Eternity characters has anything to do with INCURSION?

Quote:
Beyond time, space, and reality, there lies the Unknown…and now it’s coming here! When soldiers from a mysterious foreign realm arrive on Earth, it’s up to the armored Visigoth known as X-O Manowar – newly returned to the planet and now the leader of his own elite G.A.T.E. unit – to deal with the intrusion. But are these otherworldly emissaries truly the threat they appear to be, or does a larger danger loom over the Valiant Universe still?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:53:57 pm 
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kinggirlfriend wrote:
I wonder if the upcoming X-O arc, AGENT, with the Eternity characters has anything to do with INCURSION?

Quote:
Beyond time, space, and reality, there lies the Unknown…and now it’s coming here! When soldiers from a mysterious foreign realm arrive on Earth, it’s up to the armored Visigoth known as X-O Manowar – newly returned to the planet and now the leader of his own elite G.A.T.E. unit – to deal with the intrusion. But are these otherworldly emissaries truly the threat they appear to be, or does a larger danger loom over the Valiant Universe still?



Gosh, I hope you're right.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:31:32 pm 
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WrathOfArmstrong wrote:
kinggirlfriend wrote:
I wonder if the upcoming X-O arc, AGENT, with the Eternity characters has anything to do with INCURSION?

Quote:
Beyond time, space, and reality, there lies the Unknown…and now it’s coming here! When soldiers from a mysterious foreign realm arrive on Earth, it’s up to the armored Visigoth known as X-O Manowar – newly returned to the planet and now the leader of his own elite G.A.T.E. unit – to deal with the intrusion. But are these otherworldly emissaries truly the threat they appear to be, or does a larger danger loom over the Valiant Universe still?



Gosh, I hope you're right.


Me too! It's be a neat way of tying certain things together.

The description for INCURSION made me think about it:

Quote:
Beyond the margins of human reason, there lies a realm known as the Deadside – where the souls of the dearly departed linger, and where gruesome terrors lie in wait to strike out at us from the dark. But our Deadside isn’t the only deadly dimension of its kind, and another – belonging to an alien world – is about to collide with Earth’s. With the very nature of our reality at stake, who will stand against the tide of unearthly terrors at our doorstep?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:32:02 am 
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I'm curious for those saying Livewire is a bad choice because she's a mass murderer....

Who exactly has Livewire killed at this point in HW2? I get the gist of what people are saying, but destroying US Satellites may be considered treasonous, but it's not murder. Shutting off the power, while it could lead to deaths (ie, hospital equipment, etc), but it's not directly murder. It also assumes she didn't leave on critical life saving equipment. To be fair, we don't know the full extent of what she shut off and/or didn't. But at this point, she has not directly killed anyone....just saying

I really don't want to get into politics, or make it about politics, but I really like the direction of Livewire and HW2, because more so than the first HW, this one is tackling some very complex and difficult social questions and issues going on in the world today through the medium of valiant comic characters. Again, to not start a debate on politics, I'm not going to call out direct references, but I don't think it takes much to see similarities between various things going on in the US alone right now in this story.

Also, curious on the position that Livewire is a mass murderer but in this story, the government is sanctioning the murder of Livewire's people, Psiots, for no other reason than they exist and are psiots. What exactly did her "Secret Weapon" kids do, besides defend themselves in the SW mini series? So killing psiots because it's gov't sponsored in the story not murder, destroying satellites and shutting down power as a deterant to preserve the lives of her people makes Livewire a murderer? Sorry, but this is just a contradictory stance not supported by logic. The whole point is both sides have a valid perspective and reason for fear/concern, but both sides over-react and go too far in their response. Plus, without even knowing how HW2 ends at this point, seems a bit of a stretch to start labeling any of the characters yet. I mean, as seen in the HW2 #2 preview, maybe even Palmer has shifted his stance on how Psiots are being handled (or it's all smoke & mirrors).

Given Livewire's moral opposition to what Harada was doing, and how they have made her into a strong lead female character, I don't see Valiant framing her as a murderer out of this story line.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:55:04 am 
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markie7235 wrote:
I'm curious for those saying Livewire is a bad choice because she's a mass murderer....

Who exactly has Livewire killed at this point in HW2? I get the gist of what people are saying, but destroying US Satellites may be considered treasonous, but it's not murder. Shutting off the power, while it could lead to deaths (ie, hospital equipment, etc), but it's not directly murder. It also assumes she didn't leave on critical life saving equipment. To be fair, we don't know the full extent of what she shut off and/or didn't. But at this point, she has not directly killed anyone....just saying

I really don't want to get into politics, or make it about politics, but I really like the direction of Livewire and HW2, because more so than the first HW, this one is tackling some very complex and difficult social questions and issues going on in the world today through the medium of valiant comic characters. Again, to not start a debate on politics, I'm not going to call out direct references, but I don't think it takes much to see similarities between various things going on in the US alone right now in this story.

Also, curious on the position that Livewire is a mass murderer but in this story, the government is sanctioning the murder of Livewire's people, Psiots, for no other reason than they exist and are psiots. What exactly did her "Secret Weapon" kids do, besides defend themselves in the SW mini series? So killing psiots because it's gov't sponsored in the story not murder, destroying satellites and shutting down power as a deterant to preserve the lives of her people makes Livewire a murderer? Sorry, but this is just a contradictory stance not supported by logic. The whole point is both sides have a valid perspective and reason for fear/concern, but both sides over-react and go too far in their response. Plus, without even knowing how HW2 ends at this point, seems a bit of a stretch to start labeling any of the characters yet. I mean, as seen in the HW2 #2 preview, maybe even Palmer has shifted his stance on how Psiots are being handled (or it's all smoke & mirrors).

Given Livewire's moral opposition to what Harada was doing, and how they have made her into a strong lead female character, I don't see Valiant framing her as a murderer out of this story line.


This is summed by up by a quote that I am about to butcher:

"A person is smart, but people are stupid!"

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:05:29 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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markie7235 wrote:
I'm curious for those saying Livewire is a bad choice because she's a mass murderer....

Who exactly has Livewire killed at this point in HW2? I get the gist of what people are saying, but destroying US Satellites may be considered treasonous, but it's not murder. Shutting off the power, while it could lead to deaths (ie, hospital equipment, etc), but it's not directly murder. It also assumes she didn't leave on critical life saving equipment. To be fair, we don't know the full extent of what she shut off and/or didn't. But at this point, she has not directly killed anyone....just saying

I really don't want to get into politics, or make it about politics, but I really like the direction of Livewire and HW2, because more so than the first HW, this one is tackling some very complex and difficult social questions and issues going on in the world today through the medium of valiant comic characters. Again, to not start a debate on politics, I'm not going to call out direct references, but I don't think it takes much to see similarities between various things going on in the US alone right now in this story.

Also, curious on the position that Livewire is a mass murderer but in this story, the government is sanctioning the murder of Livewire's people, Psiots, for no other reason than they exist and are psiots. What exactly did her "Secret Weapon" kids do, besides defend themselves in the SW mini series? So killing psiots because it's gov't sponsored in the story not murder, destroying satellites and shutting down power as a deterant to preserve the lives of her people makes Livewire a murderer? Sorry, but this is just a contradictory stance not supported by logic. The whole point is both sides have a valid perspective and reason for fear/concern, but both sides over-react and go too far in their response. Plus, without even knowing how HW2 ends at this point, seems a bit of a stretch to start labeling any of the characters yet. I mean, as seen in the HW2 #2 preview, maybe even Palmer has shifted his stance on how Psiots are being handled (or it's all smoke & mirrors).

Given Livewire's moral opposition to what Harada was doing, and how they have made her into a strong lead female character, I don't see Valiant framing her as a murderer out of this story line.


But what about the milk? All the power cut in the US, can you imagine how much milk is rotting in refrigerators and grocery stores across the country? Not to mention the ice cream, what a tragedy.

Seriously though, there are thousands of hospitals across the country that need power to keep people alive, especially the sick, elderly, and infants. Maybe they have backup servers that kick in that she didn't knock out? It's possible, but it needs to be explained in the story if that's the case. What about planes in the air, how do they land? I get that it's just a comic book story, but it quickly stretches even casual credibility. If they want Livewire to be a villain, cool, just commit to it then. If they want her to be a sympathetic character that readers actually like, they should consider explaining how she hasn't already killed thousands of innocent people. :twocents:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:36:30 pm 
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:52:24 am
Posts: 173
Ryan wrote:
markie7235 wrote:
I'm curious for those saying Livewire is a bad choice because she's a mass murderer....

Who exactly has Livewire killed at this point in HW2? I get the gist of what people are saying, but destroying US Satellites may be considered treasonous, but it's not murder. Shutting off the power, while it could lead to deaths (ie, hospital equipment, etc), but it's not directly murder. It also assumes she didn't leave on critical life saving equipment. To be fair, we don't know the full extent of what she shut off and/or didn't. But at this point, she has not directly killed anyone....just saying

I really don't want to get into politics, or make it about politics, but I really like the direction of Livewire and HW2, because more so than the first HW, this one is tackling some very complex and difficult social questions and issues going on in the world today through the medium of valiant comic characters. Again, to not start a debate on politics, I'm not going to call out direct references, but I don't think it takes much to see similarities between various things going on in the US alone right now in this story.

Also, curious on the position that Livewire is a mass murderer but in this story, the government is sanctioning the murder of Livewire's people, Psiots, for no other reason than they exist and are psiots. What exactly did her "Secret Weapon" kids do, besides defend themselves in the SW mini series? So killing psiots because it's gov't sponsored in the story not murder, destroying satellites and shutting down power as a deterant to preserve the lives of her people makes Livewire a murderer? Sorry, but this is just a contradictory stance not supported by logic. The whole point is both sides have a valid perspective and reason for fear/concern, but both sides over-react and go too far in their response. Plus, without even knowing how HW2 ends at this point, seems a bit of a stretch to start labeling any of the characters yet. I mean, as seen in the HW2 #2 preview, maybe even Palmer has shifted his stance on how Psiots are being handled (or it's all smoke & mirrors).

Given Livewire's moral opposition to what Harada was doing, and how they have made her into a strong lead female character, I don't see Valiant framing her as a murderer out of this story line.


But what about the milk? All the power cut in the US, can you imagine how much milk is rotting in refrigerators and grocery stores across the country? Not to mention the ice cream, what a tragedy.

Seriously though, there are thousands of hospitals across the country that need power to keep people alive, especially the sick, elderly, and infants. Maybe they have backup servers that kick in that she didn't knock out? It's possible, but it needs to be explained in the story if that's the case. What about planes in the air, how do they land? I get that it's just a comic book story, but it quickly stretches even casual credibility. If they want Livewire to be a villain, cool, just commit to it then. If they want her to be a sympathetic character that readers actually like, they should consider explaining how she hasn't already killed thousands of innocent people. :twocents:


Honestly not sure they want her, or anyone in this event/arc to be read as either heroes or villains (yet). Right now, I think that's the point, that both sides are persuasive depending on what angle you want to look at the story from. Is it right to turn off all the power, hurting people not even involved in the war? Is it right to kill psiots that did nothing wrong besides exist? Right now, there's no winners, just a lot of losers and hurt innocents based on the actions from both sides...And maybe that's where the Alpha and Solomon come into play, where the current sides realize they have to align to stop the real threats (or not)

The fact that we are even discussing this or debating how to view the events means from one angle, the story is doing it's job. And that's why I mentioned it mirrors politics in the US today, that who's right or wrong all depends on what aspect or issue you decide to put priority on....and why likewise all sides fail to truly be right also. Because in complex social issues and culture wars, there rarely is a clear "good guy" or "bad guy". It reminds me a lot of Marvel's Civil War...Were you team Captain America or Team Iron Man? Was either side really wrong or right? I really hope the rest of the issues are done very well, because I honestly feel the current set up could make HW2 one of the most compelling stories Valiant has ever told in terms of importance to a media event that surpasses the pages of the comic universe.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:02:26 pm 
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:58:17 pm
Posts: 767
Location: The Faraway
Valiant fan since: Bloodshot #1 (2012)
Favorite character: Ninjak/Woody
Favorite title: Bloodshot/Ninjak
Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
Favorite artist: Clayton Crain
After thinking about these titles a little more and going back over my (overly) negative reaction I'm actually looking forward to 3/4 of these.

Bloodshot Salvation #10 was a bit of a mess and the series lacks continuity, 2 standalone issues in a 10 issue run spanning 3 timeliness and includes visits to 4002 and the Dead-side isn't good and struggles with a lack of cohesive narrative. I'm really looking forward to Bloodshot going back to his psiot hunter / ghost days in Rising Spirit, the new ongoing coming in Nov.

I think the Livewire mini could be really good, especially if the story flows directly out of HWII.

While Incursion could be anything. it's an event book which will hopefully have other titles linked in to it. I'll be all the more pumped if the Shadowman series is still around when this launches (I initially thought this book would replace Shadowman).

The Faith mini does nothing for me.

#StayValiant


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:51:40 pm 
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:58:17 pm
Posts: 767
Location: The Faraway
Valiant fan since: Bloodshot #1 (2012)
Favorite character: Ninjak/Woody
Favorite title: Bloodshot/Ninjak
Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
Favorite artist: Clayton Crain
If the recent DMG stock crash doesn't derail Valiant, Livewire looks set to link in with some cool characters,

In my tweeter feed today i saw a teaser from Raul Allen who is working on the Livewire book which included Livewire, the gang from Secret Weapons, and.... Rai in the same panel!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:30:58 pm 
Harbinger rank: Nensei
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Have sales numbers for Faith come out yet? This looks to be a big test for DMG/Valiant. The first book completely from the new management. It leads out a slate of books so I would think they want a big sales number here. I know they did a pre order edition collection and several convention exclusive covers. What do we think it will sell? I can't believe anything below 15,000-18,000 for issue 1 would be considered a success.


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