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Book of the Geomancer? Awesome stuff, what was it going to be?

Can always find something cool when doing thread archaeology on this site.

Was this script ever discussed further? Were there extra things that weren't in the story, or is it just that Shooter's script was detailed and it took 22 pages to describe an 8 page comic?


Mainly a very detailed script, panel by panel, with many images that explain details and one full page ...

I'm floored by this collection, Iggy. :o

Was this script ever discussed further? Were there extra things that weren't in the story, or is it just that Shooter's script was detailed and it took 22 pages to describe an 8 page comic?

Harbinger: The Beginning HC script. 22-page script for the ...

So, Valiant has undergone a sustained period of poorer quality comics, despite being internally consistent with previously established logic and guidelines?

In retaining Hawkins as their EiC, does that mean that Alien actively continued in DMG's established pattern of decisions? Which had led to ...

There was a very bad run or two in X-O, sure. Not sure I agree about Shadowman. I think that has been fairly good since Jack returned. I particularly enjoyed the expanded origin of the Loa and Jaunty.


Didn't DMG only have two X-O runs, and even you say they're 'very bad'. That's really a bad ...

As far as I can tell, MotA’s primary criterium for quality in a comic is rigorous editorial consistency. That is what he primarily appeals to when he is describing good and bad stories. It makes sense that someone with that kind of priority would be drawn to Shooter’s VH1.


Yeah I think that's ...

The quality of storytelling has suffered under DMG. With a few standout exceptions, the quality of storytelling has consistently gotten worse. VEI had a couple of losers but those were the exception rather than the rule. DMG have been on a slow road to DC-lite.


Preach. I'm not even a big VEI ...

I never said that DMG's and Alien's VALIANT comics are consistent with what VH-2 did. I said they're been consistent with what VEI did.


K so it boils down to: Marvel-lite at VH2 = Antichrist-level bad. Marvel-lite at VEI = Actually pretty great.

Certainly your opinion hasn't been biased in any ...

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does ...

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG ...

Then what's the problem?

Dinesh set up his own world building for VEI, and DMG and Alien have been consistent with it.


You didn't answer the question though, it had nothing to do with VEI vs DMG. I'll make it more clear for you:

Here's what I don't understand. You've railed for decades that ...

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.


Concepts such as magic.


In what way do you think magic in the DMG and Alien era was handled differently ...

Alien and DMG haven't done anything that is inconsistent with what came before during Dinesh' time.

What is it that you believe either had done that contradicts any of the world building that began with the VEI reboot?

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times ...

I never said that I blame Nicieza for Birthquake.


Birthquake led directly to Valiant losing all of its readers and turning the VH1 characters into a joke in the industry. Whoever was hired to pick up the pieces after Layton had to do something radically different as the characters' brand was ...

Ryan, Nicieza very publicly stated that VH-2 was entirely his idea. This is not a mystery.

So he decided to cancel VH1? That makes no sense, he was just an Editor. But seriously I'd like to know how you blame him for Birthquake being a disaster and the quality of VH1 being so bad that it lost ...

Nicieza decided to replace VALIANT with his DC-inspired iteration. He didn't HAVE to do that. It wasn't his job to create a new version of VALIANT, it was his job to revitalize VALIANT. It was his decision to do it by doing a second version that looked more like a DC or Marvel comic.

You don't ...

Having recently read all of them, I can confidently say that the Shadowman series, for instance, continued from where the previous one left off in regards to Jack's time as Magpie and such. Same goes for the X-O series.

Some tried to start from a blank slate, likely to attract new readers, which ...

The philosophical rift between you and Alien is that while Alien believes that a reboot/sideverse like Beyond will attract a new audience who isn't familiar with VALIANT you believe that bringing back VH-1 will re-attract the original audience.

The ideal thing would be to find a middle ground ...

Sure.

Clearly the reason they're doing Beyond is in the belief that it will attract more readers than doing yet another X-O Manowar series or the like that continues existing plot threads, the same way DC is doing with Absolute and Marvel did with Ultimate.

To Alien's credit, they're not ...

Alien hasn't flushed VEI down the toilet like VH-2 did VH-1.

And, as I stated before, Alien is using the multiverse that was already established during Dinesh's time.

Dinesh set up his own rules for VEI. Some I agree with, others -- such as the multiverse -- I disagree with. But you cannot blame ...

The easiest explanation is that those involved with VH 2 didn't understand what made VALIANT different from DC and Marvel (or cared) , and didn't care that what they were doing contradicted what it did, whether it was Rai #0 or rules about time travel or whatnot. They just did what they wanted ...

I'm not talking about X-O #68, I'm talking about X-O/Iron Man and the Man of the Atom and Revelations one-shots, plus other VH-2 comics that cemented that Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O armor in 408.

The stories in the VEI hardcovers took place before the crossover with Iron Man ...

Within the narrative itself, VH 1 ceased to exist when Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O Manowar armor. It was further disrupted when Solar witnessed him do it.

Despite what Ivar later claimed about it being impossible to change history, Alpha & Omega established at the onset that ...

Either way, whether they publish 48 Beyond comics and only one VEI comic that doesn't change the fact that the VEI continuity is still the primary continuity.

Lol ok this kind of logic is impossible to argue against. If that's how it works, then actually Vh1 is still the primary continuity, it's ...

Those 48 are intended to be published over the course of a year. Again, common sense dictates they likely plan to publish more VEI comics in that same time frame too. And if the event is like Resurgence it will include more than just five issues.
Sure, but I'm just going off what's been ...